Transformers feats/discussion

[OtherGalaxy]

Omega Lock stuff, sort of ties into what I've been arguing that Galaxy Force Primus should be at least universal from closing the singularity

from Ask Vector Prime - Echoes and Fragments

Sideways smirked. "I admit nothing," but the tension was broken. The two pulled up stools and began to talk shop, under the wary eye of the mustachioed blue bartender. It soon became apparent that both were slumming it in this Primax reality, waiting for an opportunity for mischief. Gong, as the Gargent-native called himself, soon began boasting about how well the natives of his timestream would deal with the upcoming challenge. Sideways scoffed, but Gong was undeterred. "Care to make it interesting?" Soon they settled on an amount, and the parameters of the contest. They would synch the Primax stream they were inhabiting with a Gargent stream via Omega Lock manipulation, and compare results. Sideways set forth for Gargent 186.0 Gamma, and Gong began the trek into Cybertron's interior.

Sideways and Gong plan to use Omega Locks to synch two universes together

Deep in the core of Cybertron, Gong stretched forth his senses, connecting to the Omega Locks that kept Cybertron's place in the cosmos stable. He mused on Cybertron's unique nature, a stable axis upon which a universe spun. No wonder Unicron in all its incarnations sought its destruction. Gong favored no such carnage, merely seeking mischief. He found the frequency at which the one-dimensional strings that make up all of this particular reality vibrate, then, ever so gently, he nudged them towards that of his home dimension. The change would be invisible to the natives. As far as they were concerned, the conjoined reality would be their history, their reality. He giggled to himself, wondering what changes were taking place on the surface of Cybertron and beyond.

The entire universe is basically balanced around Cybertron. Gong is able to use the Omega Locks to merge two universe's histories together.

In another reality, Sideways made his way past Van Guard and Defendor, guarding an entrance to Old Gobotron. It was here, in the most ancient part of the planet, that Sideways would find what he sought. The Omega Locks, ancient artifacts predating the evolution of the GoBeings, were in reality a small part of the essence of Primus, that ancient--he supposed 'god' was the only apt descriptor--ancient god who had inhabited their world, subtly guided the GoBeings into the forms they had at present, that they might one day be able to battle the Chaos Bringer. Sideways had felt this reality's substrate waver and grow insubstantial as it was tapped by the Primax reality Gong was currently toying with. Well, two could play at that game! He dodged the ancient, shambling GoBot Wrecks and some pitiful mutants, then entered the chamber and allowed himself to become one with the Locks, intent on disrupting the new reality equilibrium Gong had established. "Time to make things interesting!" * * * * * The uneasy fabric of reality again shifted, as a constant in the distant reality imprinting itself upon this universe flipped a sign. In an instant, the inhabitants became participants in a never-ending struggle between heroic Guardians and evil Decepticons! A crucial battle raged in that war, one whose fate might determine the fate of their entire reality, though none present knew the stakes were quite so high.

Sideways basically does the same thing as Gong, and it's specified that Omega Locks are a small part of Primus' essence. Basically a fraction of his power is capable of multiversal reality warping. Also keep in mind? Gong and Sideways aren't even trying to destroy anything, they're just fucking with timelines for fun. So yeah that guy on VSB who thought Unicron and Primus capped at universal is full of shit, but we all knew that

From Part 2

Sideways observed the events a dimension away with great amusement. So far, not much had changed. The details, sure, but big-picture, things were still proceeding according to script. He wondered if he couldn't shake things up a bit. Maybe tune in a Uniend Cluster reality, get some Predacons in the mix. He allowed his senses to open, prepared to access the Locks, but instead noticed another presence... Vec-Tor! He cursed out loud, then allowed the Locks to reset to their equilibrium state. No need to advertise his presence, only... there were a few sticking points. The analogy was starting to break down. No matter, it gave Vec-Tor more of a mess to clean up. He converted to his motorcycle configuration and roared out of the Omega Lock chamber, moments ahead of Vector Prime.

Sideways contemplates manipulating universes from other Clusters

The story continues like this for a while, the only other thing I want to note is besides being able to observe what happens in different universes, Sideways can enter "trans-phase" mode and step into other universes as he please.

Sideways dropped his trans-phase mode and reentered perceptible reality. Unpowered, the bars of the cage were simple steel, and he battered them aside as if they weren't even there. The two Guardians fired off bolts at him, but he grabbed Twister and slammed him into Heat Seeker, knocking both unconscious. Then he slipped out of the Gobotron Fortress, enveloped himself in trans-phase energy, and transited to another universe.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Also

As I just finished rereading The Wreckers stories I had forgotten about this

Another confirmation that the IDW Universe has divergent realities, with Tarantulas even saying the actions and branch timelines would provide him with infinite material for new experiments.

So, if anyone doubted Perceptor's word on the IDW Universe generating infinite new ones, we have another source confirming it. Also, since Vector Prime confirmed the IDW Universe was originally singular, Tarantulas having access to these divergent realities at all proves what Perceptor said was true.

So basically no matter how you look at it, universes in transformers spawn multiverses and beyond. It has pretty much never been "just" one multiverse by OBD standards.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Turns out I missed something pretty important about the Omega Locks stuff

Vector Prime couldn't believe how foolishly, foolishly and recklessly, Gong and Sideways were behaving. Cybertron was one of the axes on which the local multiversal sector spun. To link two realities where one was threatened by Unicron risked not just a single reality, but vast reality swaths. True, Unicron was fated to be destroyed, but who knew how the Gargent influx would change things? At any moment, the Autobots and Decepticons could go careening off-script.

-Cybertron not just an axis for a single universe, but multiple universes.
-Sideways and Gong's actions potentially threatened a large group of Universes

 

[Crimson Dragoon]

Additionally, all singularities shown (The 13, Primus, and Unicron) are monstrously strong. Vector Prime immediately after awakening as a singularity's first act was to hurl a guy into a big bang.

just gonna post Megatron beating a more experienced version of Vector Prime than the one there


Also, more confirmation that the Unicron Singularity will eventually destroy everything in existence if not stopped


Unicron Singularity has caused massive temporal instability to the point versions of Unicron are inside it, plus it’s the source of memory problems and other continuity issues

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Not that it matters much since me and CD are the ones who update this thread () but I figured I'd explain how I justify or use certain Ask Vector Prime statements, because while AVP is one of the best sources of obscure lore in the series, even its writers make mistakes.

For example
One of my claims that Vector Prime and the 13 are Megaversal involved this statement

And yet, I do take pride in the work I do. I have helped to save millions of realities, even entire reality clusters. I know the work I do enables countless beings whom I will never even meet to be forged and live and dream and fall in love and create offspring and produce art and, yes, even to die.

Obviously millions of realities is nowhere near that. Why am I still using that statement? Because 1. he has another statement outside of this addressing him stopping the destruction of an entire Universal Cluster 2. Vector has one other statement about the multiverse being finite that is at odds with multiple other statements he's made thus, it is far more consistent for AVP and transformers in general, for the multiverse to be an infinite (and beyond) space.

Q: Dear Vector Prime,

I know this may seem like a strange question, but what's outside the Multiverse?
.
.
A: Dear Insightful Instigator,

That is an excellent question. Outside of the Multiverse that you and I know is the Omniverse, comprised of other Multiverses. Though there are millions of realities within the Cybertronian Multiverse, there are uncountable realities, numbering in the tens of quadrillion. Occasionally, the quantum-string vibrations of one of these universes drift close enough for one of them to temporarily merge with a reality stream in my domain.

This quote is often used by downplayers. It can be ignored for two reasons: other sources besides AVP (such as TFCC, IDW Comics, Transformers Deviations, and Regeneration One) contradict it and 2. Vector Prime himself has actually stated reality is infinite for more times than the one time he stated it was finite.

Q: Dear Vector Prime,

What do you think of Functionism and the Functionist Council.
.
.
A: Dear Form Follower,

When Primax 1114.26 Gamma snapped into existence, fully formed, it caught me by surprise. It's more common for universes to gradually branch than an acosmogenesis event. It certainly seems like an unpleasant place, at least for the denizens of Cybertron. Do not forget, though, that there are countless realities, and I have visited or observed a non-trivial fraction.

Q: Dear Vector Prime,

I understand that, as the multiversal Keeper of Space and Time, it is rare for you to interfere with the affairs of a single universe. When you do need to focus your attention on one universe, who guards the Multiverse to ensure that other beings don't wreck havoc in whichever universe they so choose?
.
.
A: Dear Guardian Gabber,

It is true that the multiverse is a limitless place, and that one being, however non-linear his or her perception, cannot possibly hope to protect it all.

Q: Dear Vector Prime,

Is there any place or time you have visited that you missed dearly and would ever consider returning to for nostalgic reasons?
.
.
A: Dear History Hound,

My memory crystals contain the fragmented memories of nine billion stellar cycles, spread out over an infinity of realities.

So pretty much AVP is a great resource, but sometimes even they make mistakes, and in those instances it's good to look for corroborating sources and/or other AVP quotes on the same subject matter, which is how I've chosen to handle it. AVP is blatantly canon, so it's not a source we can just disregard because a few details don't always line up. We also have to keep in mind that multiple writers contributed to it as well, and that most always results in continuity gaffs even from the most careful individuals.

 

[Flowering Knight]

Wonder where Beast Wars ranks now I vaguely remember something about town/city level and hypersonic top tiers but I wonder if that changes with any of this new info

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Wonder where Beast Wars ranks now I vaguely remember something about town/city level and hypersonic top tiers but I wonder if that changes with any of this new info

Not sure any of the main cast changes, but Beast Wars did introduce the Vok and well...

they exist across universes, dimensions, and consciousness. Basically they're fucking impossible to kill

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Remembered an odd tidbit of info from a recent interview that's kind of interesting
https://news.tfw2005.com/2021/10/29...r-blaster-and-tf-team-roundtable-recap-443983

Legacy – connected to WFC? Multiverse, aesthetic is similar, only talking toys, WFC set a standard will continue

Generations Selects – will it get more niche now that Legacy is multiverse? Will dip into a wider pool across lines.

It's sort of stated that the toys themselves are their own multiverse. I wouldn't think about this too hard though, but it is interesting when you consider stuff like Toy Bios being canon universes in their own right in some cases.

 

[Gordo]

Sam Witwicky is the strongest in the franchise

 

[OtherGalaxy]

he is nothing compared to El Presidente

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Transformers metafictional stuff (lol)

Q: Dear Vector Prime,

What universe did the Transformers who ran the letters column of the Marvel UK Transformers comics come from?
.
.
A: Dear Fourth-Wall Fanatic,

Primax 785.13 Zeta. A very strange place, its boundary with Quadwal -3760.925 Theta thinner than most.

Reason why Transformers can interact with real life

Q: Dear Vector Prime,

Since they seemingly lack Transformers (and, by extension, the Matrix of Leadership), are universes in the Quadwal cluster more vulnerable to being consumed by Unicron?
.
.
A: Dear Concerned Citizen,

You are mistaken. There are no shortage of Transformers in the Quadwal Cluster. To date, most Quadwal Unicrons are well under a mechanometer tall and made of plastic, so I wouldn't worry about them consuming your reality. However, if you are concerned, there is also a surfeit of Matrices of Leadership available to help thwart his dastardly consumption. The Masterpiece Optimus Prime toy came with a particularly nice one.

most Unicrons in real life are toys

Q: Dear Vector Prime,

Do you know of any future Transformers continuities that we Quadwal humans have not yet discovered, that will take the form of future series in our world?
.
.
A: Dear Prognosticating Person,

Indeed I do.

Vector Prime is aware of transformers stories that don't exist in the real world yet.

Q: Dear Vector Prime,

Has there ever been a universe where Optimus Prime gets reformatted in a similar manner as Megatron/Galvatron, Bumblebee/Goldbug, Cyclonus/Snowcat or other such examples? What was his name after the reformat?
.
.
A: Dear Rebirth Reaver,

It has been known to happen. Star Convoy is one such example.



Q: Any instance that Quadwal has not recorded?Ask Vector Prime
Yes.

Q: Will you share any notable one(s) with us?Ask Vector Prime
I do not think such a thing is possible. Were I to share it with you, then it will become recorded in Quadwal, creating a paradox and invalidating the answer.

But telling us about them would create a paradox

Q: Dear Vector Prime,

Knowing that you are a fictional character in the Quadwal cluster, and that from that perspective, everything you do say and experience is a figment of multiple author's imagination, how do you cope with that potential existential crisis?
.
.
A: Dear Angst Augurer,

I do not see this as especially problematic. After all, there is a fictionalized version of you running around approximately 20% of fiction set during your lifespan that is depicted on television, in movies, and in books. Does it cause you to lose sleep that there is a version of you off-screen in the universe represented by The Good Wife, or that an alternative version of you was slain in the latest Romero zombie apocalypse film?

Vector Prime is fully aware he is fictional and claims we are equally fictitious

Q: Dear Vector Prime,

Have you ever been to the Legends universe where Rattrap and other Maximals and Predacons work and buy fictional versions of themselves?
.
.
A: Dear Well-Informed Traveler,

I cannot say that I have. When Cybertronians interact with fictional versions of themselves, they risk causing a time paradox capable of diverting the eddies in the time flow in dangerous ways. One must be exceedingly careful under such circumstances.

Transformers have interacted with fictional versions of themselves

Unicron is fully aware of his own writer and threatens to kill him


And in the Titan comics Starscream once kidnapped all the writers, with Furman "barely escaping"

 

[Crimson Dragoon]

Soundwave can chill at the Unicron Singularity's event horizon:

for reference, the Unicron Singularity managed to destroy a distant planet



and another feat regarding the black hole is Optimus surviving in its depths when trying to get the Omega Lock that Master Galvatron threw in there to destabilize the singularity more

 

[Blade]

still the best tf games

 

[OtherGalaxy]

we need Devastation 2 badly platinum please

 

[Crimson Dragoon]

This is ultimately irrelevant but it’s possible the Galaxy Force subbers sort of flubbed Gigantion’s/Gigalonia’s size





They use the word “kōsei” (恒星 in moon rune), which just means star or maybe fixed star, nothing about it being small

I don’t know Japanese so maybe it isn’t actually wrong, but it’s just a hunch I have

so basically get someone who really knows the language to make sure of this one

 

[Crimson Dragoon]

@OtherGalaxy the Bayverse continuity of all things might have a pretty good mental feat ha

"absorbed the mental mass of a hive intelligence 70 trillion strong"

 

[OtherGalaxy]

@OtherGalaxy the Bayverse continuity of all things might have a pretty good mental feat ha

"absorbed the mental mass of a hive intelligence 70 trillion strong"

loooool

I also wanted to bring up to you that the way the Enigma of Combination works, in Unicron Soundwave channels "billions upon billions" of souls and minds to mindfuck Unicron

this is significant because the Enigma has always been Nexus Prime's artifact even pre-Shroud, so you can directly scale this to the Thirteen. So it makes Vector Prime saying he freed souls from Mogahn the Mass seem a lot less like flowery language and more like a viable feat.

Granted anybody who was shaping the multiverse probably has some level of mind/soul fuck since they were establishing the cosmos but it's good to have confirmation.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Also, I forgot about this scan

further confirmation every possible variation of each universe exists
so it's pretty hard to deny Transformers is well beyond multiversal+ at this point if for every universe out there, so are all its variants

Also here Unicron is specifically mentioned travelling through Universes and Dimensions. A lot of times transformers uses 'dimension' to mean universe, but here they are separated, which makes me think the Funpub stuff about him reaching through "space and dimensions" is meant to be the same thing.

 

[Crimson Dragoon]

just remembered even Bayformers Bumblebee has a decent strength feat

 

[Crimson Dragoon]

Some interesting stuff about Galaxy Force here:

I just finished Galaxy Force

I just finished watching Galaxy Force, and I must say, it turned out to be quite an enjoyable series. It had its negatives, like Prime needing to go...

www.tfw2005.com

And in GF, Primus was acknowledged as the creator of the universe more than once, plus some stuff about how each key has a planet’s worth of energy (much more than that though obviously)







Another retelling of the Unicron story of him eating everything in existence:

BotCon Online

The beginning, strictly speaking, was the end. The end of an entire universe, one that had existed long before any modern measurement of time began. It was the twilight of the gods, beings of pure energy that had grown to a point where nothing was beyond them. They were omnipotent, almighty, boundless. But, as it turned out, not all-seeing.

Otherwise, they might have noticed that one of their number had taken to calling himself the devourer of worlds. Though as it happened, worlds were merely an aperitif to the banquet that was to follow. Its name was Unicron, and its terrible hunger drove it to wipe all life from this old Universe. It consumed its fellow gods (not immortal either), planets, galaxies, even space itself, until there was nothing. Satiated, it finally slept, alone in the void.

But tenaciously, life hung on, and through a massive effort of will it began a subatomic chain reaction that built and expanded, gathering gaseous momentum with each explosion of primal forces. Until ultimately, it birthed a new Universe, created new life. And with this creation came a protector, a counter-force to the threat of Unicron. Its name was Primus.

However, it soon became apparent that this fragile new universe was not meant to contain beings as powerful and elemental as Unicron and Primus. Their battles laid waste to countless fledgling star systems, destroying the very life Primus had been created to protect. And so, a plan was borne. One that would, if successful, both end the current threat of Unicron, and, ultimately, safeguard the universe for generations to come.

Primus intended to lure Unicron to a reality that existed as an extension of the mind, beyond the physical form. There, Unicron would all but triumph, and scenting final victory would blindly pursue the retreating Primus. Unicron would not, until far too late, realize that, instead of returning to their energy forms, their psychic essences had materialized inside dead metal asteroids, where they would both be trapped for all eternity.

it’s very similar to the Marvel comics story