Transformers feats/discussion
- Thread starter OtherGalaxy
- Start date
genuinely surprised AVP didn’t tell us about how this guy was some offscreen menace wrecking planets or something
Doronbo_Shirake
悩ましポーズ
He didn't know. Maybe is some alternate version of Devil Z or Violen Jager.
wonder how strong those two are, I’m not very familiar with the japanese continuity as a whole besides Unicron Trilogy
Doronbo_Shirake
悩ましポーズ
I watched years ago the japanese continuity. I need to rewatch it.
I remember that God Ginrai destroyed Devil Z, but God Ginrai later was almost killed by Deathsaurus. Then turned into Victory Leo and almost killed along Star Saber by General Overlord (revived and empowered by Violen Jager) while they were on planet Feminia. General Overlord used his spear to crush Feminia's core and destroyed the planet while Victory Saber was still there.
General Overlord is the same from Masterforce but with a power-up and a new design.
So, based on what I remember, Zone decepticons and Dai Atlas with Zodiac are superior to Masterforce and Victory characters.
I know there’s a black hole destruction feat with Ginrai and Black Zarak but that’s about it
and the Zodiac is the literal power of the big bang but I don’t know if anyone but Star Convoy ever utilized it fully? I stumbled on a page recently claiming Super Megatron’s firepower was 10x Star Convoy’s, but I don’t know what book it was from to read the whole thing
and the Zodiac is the literal power of the big bang but I don’t know if anyone but Star Convoy ever utilized it fully? I stumbled on a page recently claiming Super Megatron’s firepower was 10x Star Convoy’s, but I don’t know what book it was from to read the whole thing
Doronbo_Shirake
悩ましポーズ
Also, Zodiac is the only thing that can destroy Violen Jager's 9 generals.
BTW, I read on the wiki that Violen Jager is a mass of Decepticon souls with the shape of a phoenix. I guess Starscream is not included in the mass.
Doronbo_Shirake
悩ましポーズ
Crimson Dragoon
Exceptional
Like in Marvel, Cybertron in Dreamwave is Saturn-sized
Angolmois Energy (the stuff of the Matrix and other gods) is apparently also the “energy” of The One, which is why all of Unicron and Primus’ species have it (Time Walker=Chronarchitect I believe, one of the only survivors of Unicron’s genocide)
Whats also interesting is by stating the Unicron of the cartoon possessed this stuff of The One it makes it seem like cartoon Unicron actually is part of the singularity? Furman has always considered all Unicrons to be the same guy, and I want to say some of the early 2000s BW material did too, though I could be wrong. It’s one of those weird contradictory things.
I have something maybe significant to talk about soon. Not really an unknown discovery, in fact it’s quite old and documented. But it potentially sheds some light on a few things …
So, something weird to discuss today
I have found absolute concrete evidence that Unicron was stated to be destabilizing the omniverse and clarification on Transformers having 'countless dimensions' in it
the catch
it's from an unused pitch Furman did for his Cybertron followup comic, and is thus non-canon
(Shout out to this person who reached out to me on another site and reminded me of Furman's Cybertron pitch)
BUT
we just learned sometimes this unused material still counts as canon earlier. Let's revisit and see what Vector says specifically about this
For reference here is the quote again
So it's slightly ambiguous, but we know these things can be "true and accurate conclusions" or "microcontinuities" (from a VS perspective, these are the branching parallel universes off the originals). Or absent from the multiverse. Let's examine Furman's pitch to see if there's any validity here, and what we can learn from it.
Right off the bat Furman references the end of his Energon comics, where Unicron is wrecked by seismic charges. These were never published, but are canon via AVP. The next few paragraphs here line up with what we know from Cybertron/Galaxy Force as well as their tie-in comics. The highlighted red is where things get interesting. Transcribed below.
While the Botcon script can be criticized as vague for its 'countless dimension' statement (though I disagree, doesn't make sense to list three items but the first two are the same) this one...really can't be interpreted that way. Realities are full-stop, universes. If Unicron can only be in one at a time but exists across countless dimensions, then those dimensions obviously are not realities/timelines/universes etc. While the concept has been played with a lot and the weird acausal nature of the character makes it hard to understand, most material of the period depicted Unicron as popping into Unspace to observe universes that it would then enter and consume. One at a time from its perspective but not to anyone else because...he's outside time. This is clearly not talking about that, it's stating he exists in one universe while his "greater" existence extends further. Furman also wrote both Universe and its botcon scripts, as well as this pitch.
Additionally, the idea of all Unicrons being one actually originates from a word of god statement Furman gave in an interview in OTFCC #1.
Basically I think this entire pitch, given it near fully lines up with the known canon, is at worst still usable as word of god statements. It also helps that this is really the most comprehensive explanation of what the Unicron Singularity/Grand Black Hole is actually doing, even more clear than TFCC's Balancing Act is.
However, that's not all.
Primeval Dawn, which was not even written by Furman, yet aligns with this. The omniversal structure. Doesn't get more clear than that. The omniverse itself was also stated to possess "uncountable infinities" beyond the multiverse...and even a single universe in that has an "uncountable infinity" of branch universe.
There is also the bizarre planet Sandra "feat"
Where we already know even destroying one Cybertron can cause damage that extends all the way into the omniverse and can warp and fuse other local universes together. Is it really that ridiculous that the Singularity destroying countless universes and Cybertrons would not have similar, if not even worse effects, due to the more fundamental way Unicron destroys things? Omniverse has also never been used synonymously in Transformers with the main multiverse to my knowledge.
EDIT: Nemesis Prime's bio does go more into the Dead Matrix, its use in the plot overall matches this wrt realigning the balance.
If it were any other series I would not advocate for using something unpublished at all, but this is the one series with a fucked up enough canon to actually say unpublished stuff is real. At the very least I think it's usable as word of god explanations for how the singularity works. The only thing that actually directly contradicts anything is where it goes into Dreamwave's cybertron being destroyed (it says G1 but Furman specifies it's War Within G1 i.e. DreamWave) but...that may not actually be a contradiction at all? As Dreamwave was cancelled (fuck you Pat Lee), there's nothing conflicting with this, and Furman even called it a "short lived bubble universe" in Transformers: Earth Wars. This would certainly explain why it's "short-lived" lol
Thoughts? @Crimson Dragoon @Blade @Qinglong
I think there's still enough evidence even without this, but this is way clearer and lines up with the bulk of what Furman put in past stories like Universe 2003 and his Armada/Energon comics.
I have found absolute concrete evidence that Unicron was stated to be destabilizing the omniverse and clarification on Transformers having 'countless dimensions' in it
the catch
it's from an unused pitch Furman did for his Cybertron followup comic, and is thus non-canon
(Shout out to this person who reached out to me on another site and reminded me of Furman's Cybertron pitch)
BUT
we just learned sometimes this unused material still counts as canon earlier. Let's revisit and see what Vector says specifically about this
For reference here is the quote again
So it's slightly ambiguous, but we know these things can be "true and accurate conclusions" or "microcontinuities" (from a VS perspective, these are the branching parallel universes off the originals). Or absent from the multiverse. Let's examine Furman's pitch to see if there's any validity here, and what we can learn from it.
Right off the bat Furman references the end of his Energon comics, where Unicron is wrecked by seismic charges. These were never published, but are canon via AVP. The next few paragraphs here line up with what we know from Cybertron/Galaxy Force as well as their tie-in comics. The highlighted red is where things get interesting. Transcribed below.
While the Botcon script can be criticized as vague for its 'countless dimension' statement (though I disagree, doesn't make sense to list three items but the first two are the same) this one...really can't be interpreted that way. Realities are full-stop, universes. If Unicron can only be in one at a time but exists across countless dimensions, then those dimensions obviously are not realities/timelines/universes etc. While the concept has been played with a lot and the weird acausal nature of the character makes it hard to understand, most material of the period depicted Unicron as popping into Unspace to observe universes that it would then enter and consume. One at a time from its perspective but not to anyone else because...he's outside time. This is clearly not talking about that, it's stating he exists in one universe while his "greater" existence extends further. Furman also wrote both Universe and its botcon scripts, as well as this pitch.
Additionally, the idea of all Unicrons being one actually originates from a word of god statement Furman gave in an interview in OTFCC #1.
However, that's not all.
Where have we heard of Unicron being a threat to the omniverse before?
There is also the bizarre planet Sandra "feat"
Where we already know even destroying one Cybertron can cause damage that extends all the way into the omniverse and can warp and fuse other local universes together. Is it really that ridiculous that the Singularity destroying countless universes and Cybertrons would not have similar, if not even worse effects, due to the more fundamental way Unicron destroys things? Omniverse has also never been used synonymously in Transformers with the main multiverse to my knowledge.
This is also backed up by Balancing Act, though some details were either changed or eschewed. Ramjet tries to convince Vector to help revive Unicron due to the balance of good and evil destroying everything. The Decepticon Matrix kills a Cybertron. We just are never shown how Ramjet got said Matrix (especially given all Unicrons are "dead" at that point in the comic). This also explains much more clearly how Unicron being 'evil' itself ruins existence if he's gone (though he was still sort of alive because he can't actually die, and Ramjet also says evil still exists but also that it's out of balance etc. it's weird)
EDIT: Nemesis Prime's bio does go more into the Dead Matrix, its use in the plot overall matches this wrt realigning the balance.
If it were any other series I would not advocate for using something unpublished at all, but this is the one series with a fucked up enough canon to actually say unpublished stuff is real. At the very least I think it's usable as word of god explanations for how the singularity works. The only thing that actually directly contradicts anything is where it goes into Dreamwave's cybertron being destroyed (it says G1 but Furman specifies it's War Within G1 i.e. DreamWave) but...that may not actually be a contradiction at all? As Dreamwave was cancelled (fuck you Pat Lee), there's nothing conflicting with this, and Furman even called it a "short lived bubble universe" in Transformers: Earth Wars. This would certainly explain why it's "short-lived" lol
Thoughts? @Crimson Dragoon @Blade @Qinglong
I think there's still enough evidence even without this, but this is way clearer and lines up with the bulk of what Furman put in past stories like Universe 2003 and his Armada/Energon comics.
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Arcee
Notorious
So, something weird to discuss today
I have found absolute concrete evidence that Unicron was stated to be destabilizing the omniverse and clarification on Transformers having 'countless dimensions' in it
the catch
it's from an unused pitch Furman did for his Cybertron followup comic, and is thus non-canon
(Shout out to this person who reached out to me on another site and reminded me of Furman's Cybertron pitch)
BUT
we just learned sometimes this unused material still counts as canon earlier. Let's revisit and see what Vector says specifically about this
For reference here is the quote again
So it's slightly ambiguous, but we know these things can be "true and accurate conclusions" or "microcontinuities" (from a VS perspective, these are the branching parallel universes off the originals). Or absent from the multiverse. Let's examine Furman's pitch to see if there's any validity here, and what we can learn from it.
Right off the bat Furman references the end of his Energon comics, where Unicron is wrecked by seismic charges. These were never published, but are canon via AVP. The next few paragraphs here line up with what we know from Cybertron/Galaxy Force as well as their tie-in comics. The highlighted red is where things get interesting. Transcribed below.
While the Botcon script can be criticized as vague for its 'countless dimension' statement (though I disagree, doesn't make sense to list three items but the first two are the same) this one...really can't be interpreted that way. Realities are full-stop, universes. If Unicron can only be in one at a time but exists across countless dimensions, then those dimensions obviously are not realities/timelines/universes etc. While the concept has been played with a lot and the weird acausal nature of the character makes it hard to understand, most material of the period depicted Unicron as popping into Unspace to observe universes that it would then enter and consume. One at a time from its perspective but not to anyone else because...he's outside time. This is clearly not talking about that, it's stating he exists in one universe while his "greater" existence extends further. Furman also wrote both Universe and its botcon scripts, as well as this pitch.
Additionally, the idea of all Unicrons being one actually originates from a word of god statement Furman gave in an interview in OTFCC #1.
Basically I think this entire pitch, given it near fully lines up with the known canon, is at worst still usable as word of god statements. It also helps that this is really the most comprehensive explanation of what the Unicron Singularity/Grand Black Hole is actually doing, even more clear than TFCC's Balancing Act is.
However, that's not all.
Where have we heard of Unicron being a threat to the omniverse before?
Primeval Dawn, which was not even written by Furman, yet aligns with this. The omniversal structure. Doesn't get more clear than that. The omniverse itself was also stated to possess "uncountable infinities" beyond the multiverse...and even a single universe in that has an "uncountable infinity" of branch universe.
There is also the bizarre planet Sandra "feat"
Where we already know even destroying one Cybertron can cause damage that extends all the way into the omniverse and can warp and fuse other local universes together. Is it really that ridiculous that the Singularity destroying countless universes and Cybertrons would not have similar, if not even worse effects, due to the more fundamental way Unicron destroys things? Omniverse has also never been used synonymously in Transformers with the main multiverse to my knowledge.
This is also backed up by Balancing Act, though some details were either changed or eschewed. Ramjet tries to convince Vector to help revive Unicron due to the balance of good and evil destroying everything. The Decepticon Matrix kills a Cybertron. We just are never shown how Ramjet got said Matrix (especially given all Unicrons are "dead" at that point in the comic). This also explains much more clearly how Unicron being 'evil' itself ruins existence if he's gone (though he was still sort of alive because he can't actually die, and Ramjet also says evil still exists but also that it's out of balance etc. it's weird)
If it were any other series I would not advocate for using something unpublished at all, but this is the one series with a fucked up enough canon to actually say unpublished stuff is real. At the very least I think it's usable as word of god explanations for how the singularity works. The only thing that actually directly contradicts anything is where it goes into Dreamwave's cybertron being destroyed (it says G1 but Furman specifies it's War Within G1 i.e. DreamWave) but...that may not actually be a contradiction at all? As Dreamwave was cancelled (fuck you Pat Lee), there's nothing conflicting with this, and Furman even called it a "short lived bubble universe" in Transformers: Earth Wars. This would certainly explain why it's "short-lived" lol
Thoughts? @Crimson Dragoon @Blade @Qinglong
I think there's still enough evidence even without this, but this is way clearer and lines up with the bulk of what Furman put in past stories like Universe 2003 and his Armada/Energon comics.
read it carefully, and gotta say
they legit up with the top tiers of marvel/dc, at best, slightly stronger
in other words
this time, tf now are low tiers in suggsverse as well, sasuga
suggsverse janitor cage match coming soon
Doronbo_Shirake
悩ましポーズ
I didn't know tha Beast Megatron shared voice actor with Buggy from One Piece.
one of the best characters in the series tbh, has always been one of my all time favorites.bw megatron still the most menacing/smartest version of him - cartoons wise
Doronbo_Shirake
悩ましポーズ
a second MFTL processing feat has dropped, pax showed me this one
Lightspeed’s can no longer be argued as an outlier to the high tiers to scale from