Transformers feats/discussion

[OtherGalaxy]

I don’t really watch DB but their research was not really great on this episode. Episode itself is fun to watch, but they don’t seem to really get how TF canon works. Marvel, Sunbow, and IDW are all separate G1 canons yet were allowed but Japanese was somehow not…and they used WFC footage when that isn’t even part of any G1 universe. You cant use the “Megatron needs an outside item for Golden form” excuse because they gave him Trailbreaker’s force field that he jacked from his corpse.


Think the worst was them taking universal IDW scaling at face value though lol, and not mentioning the size of universes in TF at all when that information isn’t even super hard to find, tons of forums and VSB also have the scans for that up. Disregarding the mftl scanning feat because it’s not supported by “primary sources” is weird because that’s not really how TF canon works? Like you can say it wouldn’t scale to any American continuity Megatrons, and you would largely be right. Doesn’t mean it’s invalid to other characters, and Earth Wars is a multiverse spanning story anyways so…

 

[Arcee]

Its honestly not a very good match-up anyways. The connection between the 2 characters are tenuous at best.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

It's very weird to me they picked a matchup where two characters both have cosmic powered gold paintjobs, and then just...didn't use one of them

like what?

I don't even care if they made Megatron lose that, it just doesn't make any sense from a "does this go hard" perspective

 

[Derpmaster9000]

A video wanking both Frieza and G1 Megs to levels they're not at? Color me surprised that this buffoon would do that. His scaling is honestly much worse than DB's was.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

actually listened to this and uh yeah this is a crazy misunderstanding of dark cybertron

conveniently misses that Shockwave never got to the point where he actually destroyed all those concepts because he got shot before then. So many things wrong with this interpretation

I guess my next project while I read dreamwave and g1 will be an IDW debunk lol. I can’t stress this enough, those are my favorite comics of all time. Sucks to see them wanked this much.

The Alternity interpretations were also kinda strange.

 

[Maddie]

Death Battle thread is looking more at Gojo vs Makima so I guess now I should ask here:

1. What is the full context of the scanning feat, who does it scale to? What canon is it?
2. What are the full explanations for Super, Ultra, and Golden Megatron?
3. Which one is big bang level? What does big bang imply here?
4. If not for the scanning feat what would Mega scale to speed wise
5. Can we get a Transformers G1 Kai with just the lore relevant episodes, artistic flubs fixed, and added frames of animation?

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Death Battle thread is looking more at Gojo vs Makima so I guess now I should ask here:

1. What is the full context of the scanning feat, who does it scale to? What canon is it?

Lightspeed hooks up to Brainstorm’s neural network and uses his added brain power to scan universes to find Chromia, who Deathsaurus threw randomly into the multiverse
Full quotes and context here

Brainiac (Post-Crisis) Invades Transformers

Are there any Transformers timelines/universes/continuities that he could fully collect? Who is the most powerful Transfomer he could take 1v1? @OtherGalaxy

www.fanverse.org

Brainiac (Post-Crisis) Invades Transformers

Are there any Transformers timelines/universes/continuities that he could fully collect? Who is the most powerful Transfomer he could take 1v1? @OtherGalaxy

www.fanverse.org

it takes place in Transformers: Earth Wars, a game where a lot of different universes meet (g1, beast wars, idw etc.)

2. What are the full explanations for Super, Ultra, and Golden Megatron?

i would have to go back to remember where Super came from, but essentially Megatron keeps evolving by absorbing Star Power ( him continuing to siphon it is how he gets his Ultra form) which is the energy to create a universe. Most of this is covered in the generations selects manga, where they cover how the seven star powers each presided over a universe of the Precursor World, a small multiverse that eventually became merged into the Japanese G1 cartoon universe. Golden Megatron is Ultra Megatron after absorbing the Golden Power (allegedly this is power from The One, but we really don’t know) from Starscream. He is then able to use two Silver Matrices (one from another point in time, as normally only one should exist) and his power to create the Golden Matrix.

3. Which one is big bang level? What does big bang imply here?

iirc Super Megatron up should be big bang level due to being Star Convoy’s equal, who functionally is the big bang. However Ultra Megatron is the one who survives an enhanced big bang on panel. Big bang here should be the power to create a universe, that is how the Zodiac (a star power) has always been described as the power that made the universe. Primus’ version was stronger to an unquantifiable degree iirc.

4. If not for the scanning feat what would Mega scale to speed wise

The other feat from Mainframe should still apply, which is mftl to a lesser degree. This is due to Megatron fighting a Primus avatar and it’s pretty much impossible for that to be less mentally capable than a completely normal Transformer like Mainframe.

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/what-is-the-fastest-finite-speed-feat-ever-read-op.1113286/page-2?post=95069246#post-95069246

other than that I’m not sure, there are other mftl feats but not to any degree of relevance to DBS characters, the best I remember is Unicron’s essence crossing 700 light years in a panel, I tried some rough calcs and it only came out to a few billion C.

There are probably others, but I’m not aware of them.

5. Can we get a Transformers G1 Kai with just the lore relevant episodes, artistic flubs fixed, and added frames of animation?

Daniel Warren Johnson’s new TF comic kinda looks like it will be this, it’s a lot more grounded and serious so far, great art, recommend it for anyone looking for a starting point who likes the core material and not the weird shit.

 

[Maddie]

Lightspeed hooks up to Brainstorm’s neural network and uses his added brain power to scan universes to find Chromia, who Deathsaurus threw randomly into the multiverse
Full quotes and context here

Brainiac (Post-Crisis) Invades Transformers

Are there any Transformers timelines/universes/continuities that he could fully collect? Who is the most powerful Transfomer he could take 1v1? @OtherGalaxy

www.fanverse.org

Brainiac (Post-Crisis) Invades Transformers

Are there any Transformers timelines/universes/continuities that he could fully collect? Who is the most powerful Transfomer he could take 1v1? @OtherGalaxy

www.fanverse.org

it takes place in Transformers: Earth Wars, a game where a lot of different universes meet (g1, beast wars, idw etc.)


i would have to go back to remember where Super came from, but essentially Megatron keeps evolving by absorbing Star Power ( him continuing to siphon it is how he gets his Ultra form) which is the energy to create a universe. Most of this is covered in the generations selects manga, where they cover how the seven star powers each presided over a universe of the Precursor World, a small multiverse that eventually became merged into the Japanese G1 cartoon universe. Golden Megatron is Ultra Megatron after absorbing the Golden Power (allegedly this is power from The One, but we really don’t know) from Starscream. He is then able to use two Silver Matrices (one from another point in time, as normally only one should exist) and his power to create the Golden Matrix.

iirc Super Megatron up should be big bang level due to being Star Convoy’s equal, who functionally is the big bang. However Ultra Megatron is the one who survives an enhanced big bang on panel. Big bang here should be the power to create a universe, that is how the Zodiac (a star power) has always been described as the power that made the universe. Primus’ version was stronger to an unquantifiable degree iirc.

The other feat from Mainframe should still apply, which is mftl to a lesser degree. This is due to Megatron fighting a Primus avatar and it’s pretty much impossible for that to be less mentally capable than a completely normal Transformer like Mainframe.

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/what-is-the-fastest-finite-speed-feat-ever-read-op.1113286/page-2?post=95069246#post-95069246

other than that I’m not sure, there are other mftl feats but not to any degree of relevance to DBS characters, the best I remember is Unicron’s essence crossing 700 light years in a panel, I tried some rough calcs and it only came out to a few billion C.

There are probably others, but I’m not aware of them.

Daniel Warren Johnson’s new TF comic kinda looks like it will be this, it’s a lot more grounded and serious so far, great art, recommend it for anyone looking for a starting point who likes the core material and not the weird shit.

I wonder how a strict G1 analysis, no crossover games, IDW, etc, would go.

If the fight happened that way, I'd imagine when Megatron tank launches himself at Freeza's supernova he goes Super, and instead of the last resort antimatter attack he goes Ultra.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

he would be massively slower probably (I can’t remember what the hell continuity that Mainframe bio is from, though if it was Dreamwave then that’s another g1) but yeah him transforming into super and Ultra modes would be pretty cool.

DB got star level for the g1 cartoon though which surprised me, we always had it at large planet level here but that was in possibility of being downgraded due to the calc method

 

[Maddie]

he would be massively slower probably (I can’t remember what the hell continuity that Mainframe bio is from, though if it was Dreamwave then that’s another g1) but yeah him transforming into super and Ultra modes would be pretty cool.

DB got star level for the g1 cartoon though which surprised me, we always had it at large planet level here but that was in possibility of being downgraded due to the calc method

Also this may give more context

Outright says he's uncoordinated in combat if that is anything, but it's G1:

Mainframe (G1) - Transformers Wiki

tfwiki.net

But it seems like it's something only specialized for him

 

[OtherGalaxy]

oh I wouldn’t scale it to basically anyone who isn’t some kind of cosmic character, the best evidence for it being valid for Megatron is mainly that he isn’t getting blitzed to hell by the Primus avatar

 

[Maddie]

Also how powerful is this enhanced big bang? Multiversal? Is the Star Power and Silver Matrix something Megs can realistically easier than The One obtain and is it possible for him to return to these forms or Golden?

I might want to get back into G1 Transformers. G1 was such a rough watch is their a stripped down episode watch? Like ones that actually matter like the origin of Optimus episode or that episode with Omega Supreme? And then what of the anime post season 4 do I watch? Then what manga?

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Also how powerful is this enhanced big bang? Multiversal? Is the Star Power and Silver Matrix something Megs can realistically easier than The One obtain and is it possible for him to return to these forms or Golden?

Not sure, I just remember that the big bang attack Star Convoy used was from a depleted Silver Matrix, and the one Primus used had at least some star power. If there was more than one star power absorbed then you can make a case for low level multiversal, but I would have to reread it. The Megatron in this manga basically has insane energy absorbtion, so as long as he can find someone with the power he wants, that's how he was powering up. He stole Big Blue Convoy's Alpha Matrix power to become Ultra Megatron iirc, and then Starscream's Golden power for his final form.

I might want to get back into G1 Transformers. G1 was such a rough watch is their a stripped down episode watch? Like ones that actually matter like the origin of Optimus episode or that episode with Omega Supreme? And then what of the anime post season 4 do I watch? Then what manga?

There's some good recommendations here

I've actually not seen all of season 2 yet, and it's harder for me to go to animation now that I'm older (which is why 90% of this thread is me going through comics). I would like to revisit it, as far as the anime, I'm not that well versed on japanese continuity besides the more modern manga I've read, @Crimson Dragoon knows way way more about JP TF than I do

Ultimately it's still a goofy toy cartoon, and while I think it's all valuable, you gotta temper your expectations somewhat if you're not a diehard fan (though the 86 movie is still sick as fuck I'll die on that hill). Comics while all over the place have a lot higher highs than the cartoon did (again, aside from the movie)

 

[Maddie]

Not sure, I just remember that the big bang attack Star Convoy used was from a depleted Silver Matrix, and the one Primus used had at least some star power. If there was more than one star power absorbed then you can make a case for low level multiversal, but I would have to reread it. The Megatron in this manga basically has insane energy absorbtion, so as long as he can find someone with the power he wants, that's how he was powering up. He stole Big Blue Convoy's Alpha Matrix power to become Ultra Megatron iirc, and then Starscream's Golden power for his final form.

There's some good recommendations here

I've actually not seen all of season 2 yet, and it's harder for me to go to animation now that I'm older (which is why 90% of this thread is me going through comics). I would like to revisit it, as far as the anime, I'm not that well versed on japanese continuity besides the more modern manga I've read, @Crimson Dragoon knows way way more about JP TF than I do

Ultimately it's still a goofy toy cartoon, and while I think it's all valuable, you gotta temper your expectations somewhat if you're not a diehard fan (though the 86 movie is still sick as fuck I'll die on that hill). Comics while all over the place have a lot higher highs than the cartoon did (again, aside from the movie)

G1 cartoon really disappointed me because I already started with Transformers Prime so was expecting something on that level of quality

 

[OtherGalaxy]

G1 cartoon really disappointed me because I already started with Transformers Prime so was expecting something on that level of quality

oh if you want stuff as good as Prime, you pretty much have to go for Animated and Beast Wars (the dated cgi has only made it better to me). I fuck with Cybertron a lot too but it’s a completely different kind of appeal than the other three have, more of a super robot show

 

[Claudio Swiss]

Its honestly not a very good match-up anyways. The connection between the 2 characters are tenuous at best.

M8 connections don't matter to normies
There tyrants that's all u need to know

Not to mention it's Frieza ya not gonna find better or deep connections for him so megatron works just enough for him

 

[Maddie]

Megs sadly is Freeza's best matchup because while Mongul is more thematic he's a fucking boring flying brick with only one type of energy attack and the only way the fight would be entertaining in the choreography department is if you give him a yellow lantern ring which would just make it a bigger stomp than DB probably believes it would be by their scale

@OtherGalaxy

When you say Megatron has energy absorption is it like theoretically at the end of the battle Freeza does his Last Emperor which gives Megs enough power to go Gold and win?

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Megs sadly is Freeza's best matchup because while Mongul is more thematic he's a fucking boring flying brick with only one type of energy attack and the only way the fight would be entertaining in the choreography department is if you give him a yellow lantern ring which would just make it a bigger stomp than DB probably believes it would be by their scale

@OtherGalaxy

When you say Megatron has energy absorption is it like theoretically at the end of the battle Freeza does his Last Emperor which gives Megs enough power to go Gold and win?

if he can steal Angolmois Energy (the energy of the gods Primus, Unicron etc) and Golden Power from people then yeah I think he should have no problem siphoning power from Frieza (or probably any DBS character for that matter)


FWIW I actually do think the matchup was pretty fitting, aside from both reputation as galactic conquerors (and huge racists) their colorschemes are even similar and both having gold forms is the cherry ob top. DB could have had Golden Megatron lose and I would have still preferred it be included because I think it makes for a more exciting video.

 

[Maddie]

if he can steal Angolmois Energy (the energy of the gods Primus, Unicron etc) and Golden Power from people then yeah I think he should have no problem siphoning power from Frieza (or probably any DBS character for that matter)


FWIW I actually do think the matchup was pretty fitting, aside from both reputation as galactic conquerors (and huge racists) their colorschemes are even similar and both having gold forms is the cherry ob top. DB could have had Golden Megatron lose and I would have still preferred it be included because I think it makes for a more exciting video.

Is his absorption like a passive can absorb anything thrown at him? Or like he needs to directly siphon it? Would this theoretical Freeza Black does a Last Emperor and Ultra Megatron uses it to go Golden be possible? Or does he need a specific item or method to go Gold?

I personally would have wanted Super --> Ultra Megatron and Freeza barely wins, but this theoretical scenario above would be fine.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Is his absorption like a passive can absorb anything thrown at him? Or like he needs to directly siphon it? Would this theoretical Freeza Black does a Last Emperor and Ultra Megatron uses it to go Golden be possible? Or does he need a specific item or method to go Gold?

I personally would have wanted Super --> Ultra Megatron and Freeza barely wins, but this theoretical scenario above would be fine.

As long as he makes contact with it he was able to siphon it, although it looks like I got the details a little mixed up

Spoiler

He became Ultra Megatron by Star Convoy willingly giving him the Silver Matrix in a hostage situation, then he uses it to absorb the Alpha Matrix's star power to become "Ultra Megatron Omega"
Omegatron is actually the one who survives Primus' big bang later

However he steals the Golden Power with no Matrix or anything, he just touches Starscream and takes it

Spoiler

Spoiler

This page is sort of confusing though, as allegedly the 7 universes are already merged prior to this point of the story, but then it still says earlier they're in "Creation Era" which is the multiverse before G1 so....idk
Still capping GMegs at 14x universes/low multiverse level as we already know 1 star power=1 universe. I'm not giving him scaling to the full cosmos.

Also this chapter is pretty funny because after Primus shoots Megatron with a big bang, we see one of the rare times he gets involved and just beats the shit out of anyone in his way.