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TYPE-Moon/Nasuverse Feats/General Thread - People Die If They Are Killed Edition

There's a lot of underestimation going about "Second Rate" Servants, whatever the fuck that even means , when for example, the weakest of them , or one of the weakest , Angry Manjew can trade blows with someone like Saber and not get turned into red mist, or getting shitblitzed .

As far as physical stats go, even the differences between low tier and top tier people are not THAT high.
 
And yeah, while he would eventually lose, Angra fought saber for some time in HA without getting instant pasted
 
As for DAAs...

Please don't be retarded like Garbs and SB and wait until we have more information .

Cause we hardly have any on both old and new versions.

You can't take something like ORT or CM as a scalable point at the highest and make it the average.
Same for someone like Vlov at the lowest.
 
I used second-rate servant for mid-tier servants like Astolfo (stronger than say, saber Gilles but weaker than Mordred)
 
I don't know, some DAA like TATARI, Zeltrech or Dark six (if they're indeed 6 asshole fae) are certainly more powerful than third or second rate servants like Mandy, Hassan (minus KH), Nobukatsu and so on

As Qing and Rey have pointed out, you are using extreme low ends to justify that scaling, especially when the info people use to prove that Vlov is beyond the average Servant... is things the average Servant have done truly beyond not only Vlov, but Ciel and Shiki as well.

For all of Cursed Arm's honesty, he STILL has done things that put him up there like not being caught by Cu(The fastest Servant in the HGW) through great use of Disengage and the same for EMIYA.
Nobukatsu explicitly isn't even supposed to BE a Heroic Spirit and would be closer to a Phantom Spirit
And Angra Mainyu, as Rey pointed out, was able to throw hands against Saber without dying instantly despite being the weakest Servant.

It's not helping you are then comparing them to Dead Apostle Ancestors who are really high up there as well, might as well compare them to ORT and Primate Murder and say "This is where the DAA's high end... ends".
We have no idea where DAA's actually stand at past Nasu's word... which makes them equal to Servants outside of the obvious outliers(As I mentioned before and will constantly do so, Idea Blood being like the Authority of Divine Spirits and Event Storage for TA's... isn't as gamebreaking as people like to say. If it was, Ciel and Shiki should have LONG died against Vlov, weakened as he was). Zelretch has nowhere the power he once had and the Dark Six don't really seem like the Six Fairies to me, I think that was Nasu just doing a callback like the A-Rei thing in LB6 and 7.

I used second-rate servant for mid-tier servants like Astolfo (stronger than say, saber Gilles but weaker than Mordred)

...I wouldn't really use Second Rate for Astolfo as he's more Third Rate.
But again, it shows how despite there supposedly being a huge gulf between Servants, there really isn't, not in the same fashion that SB or VSB goes for. The difference is more closer to their Noble Phantasms than their actual stats and abilities.
 
NP define the Servant and “gulf” between them. Raw physicals don’t possess much of a gap. C Strength has been sufficient to parry shit on the order [and the gulf between E and C or B is likewise the same] of A and speed from D to A might as well not have a distinction from within melee range.

Angra Mainyu is a bit special where he can briefly match top Servants, just that this ability is self destructive as all hell and leads to his death IIRC.
 
Astolfo also just....isn't that weak :zaru

Most of his problems come from his insanity curse, once that gets removed his magic book let's him neg anything short of a Reality Marble, his spear can fuck with just about anyone, and his Hippogriff is some bullshit as well.

He also has Monstrous Strength so it isn't as though he's physically weak, it's just thelat the Apocrypha Servants were stacked in terms of physical stats.
 
Isn't Primate Murder is not part of DAA anymore as of remake?
And considering how ORT got its status, yeah it's an exception

As of Astolfo, well as you know his multiple strong NP is what makes him mid-tier since no third-rate servant can do what he did against Tametomo.
 
Isn't Primate Murder is not part of DAA anymore as of remake?

Original Continuity still exists, people miss that about how Kinoko Nasu does things...

As of Astolfo, well as you know his multiple strong NP is what makes him mid-tier since no third-rate servant can do what he did against Tametomo.

Astolfo has all of those Noble Phantasms, yet he is still viciously nerfed by his insanity at the end of the day.
I would say that's a substantial problem especially since Astolfo is more closer to Chiron in that he has alot of tricks of the trade but he has nothing to really bolster him in one direction or the other.
 
Primate Murder was the sole justification for any discussion regarding Altrouge having some parity to Arcueid as Archetype Earth or the Crimson Moon. Which makes sense, as he’s also fucking Beast IV.
 
Back in the old timeline, as Chaos's said , no.

In the current version, she's noted to be on the same scale as Arc and neither of them can become the Ultimate One of the planet until they "settle " things.
 
Back in the old timeline, as Chaos's said , no.

In the current version, she's noted to be on the same scale as Arc and neither of them can become the Ultimate One of the planet until they "settle " things.
They gave her a power up? Good shit. She at least make a vague cameo yet? Or is it all still just off screen exposition still after 20 fucking years?
 
After months of waiting(Because alot of shit popped up during that timeframe), I'm finally back to work.

Super Orion anyone?


Character Info and Stats:


Don't think I'm gonna do this all the time, I don't have every Servant and the Materials wasn't updated yet.

However, I will use part of the entry for Orion in the "Artemis and Orion" section of their Materials for context:

Orion



To get the main deal out of the way.
Here, The Super Orion we see in Atlantis is the Grand Archer. Here, Orion's name in Greek was "One Who Discharges Water"(sorry, had to bring it up).
Super Orion primarily uses all of his legends at once so sadly, you won't be seeing me going into them in general.

Class Skills:(These are all from Super Orion's Ingame Profile...)

Independent Action: EX
(This isn't when he's a Grand Servant, Playable Super Orion has it at EX too)

Blessing of the Sea God: B
Here, the main reason Super Orion can damage Caenis in the Sea is due to being Poseidon's child and having a chunk of his Divine Core.

Curse of the Celestial Scorpion: D
One of Orion's many causes of death.
He hates scorpions so much that the constellation Orion retreats whenever Scorpio approaches it in the sky.
I guess Scorpions is the equivalent for Orion as Hydra Venom is for Heracles and Chiron...

PERSONAL SKILLS

Moon Goddess's Pressure: EX
Heavy pressure that Orion receives in the name of affection from his lover(?) Artemis. The tremendous pressure buffs Orion, enhancing his physique. All stats rank up, including Magical Energy and LUCK. His Strength is Doubled

Stout Arm of Brutality: B+

Tri-Star Archer: A+

I'll bring up when I find it but hilariously, Super Orion actually has issues with smaller animals as he was used to hunting truly huge game in the AoG sector in William Tell's Interlude.
Here in Summer 2020(or Summer 2018 for JP), Artemis brings up Orion shooting her clothes off of the rack while she was bathing from over 2 Mountains away.

Noble Phantasm


Artemis Agnos

Rank: B
NP Type: Anti-Army(Self)
Range: 0
Maximum Targets: 1


Hilariously, this NP is seemingly not used in the Main Story... but 2 others was.

Orion Orkos
Rank: B+
NP Type: Anti-Army
Range: 100
Maximum Targets: ?


Here, Orion uses Orion Orkos to shoot at Lostbelt Artemis, damaging her armor and exposing her Divine Core due to using the Divine Eclipse, A Divine Arrow, a Command Spell to keep him steady and multiple Magecraft spells to keep him alive and capable of firing more.


Ortygia Amore Mio
Rank: EX
Range: Infinite(Until it reaches Artemis)
Maximum Targets: 1


Of course, I would go on talking about Super Orion's feats of strength, speed, etc, but there is one thing we have to talk about and honestly even if it's not his, he's the only one who could use it in the Lostbelt:

The Aegis Eclipse


Here, the Aegis Eclipse is crafted from Achilles' Divine Construct Armor(Which still doesn't have a name no matter where I looked) by Hephaestus. Here, Hephaestus states the Aegis Eclipse is a Compound Longbow created solely for use against Interstellar Fighters. Here, Paris is surprised that Hephaestus can create an Anti-Fortress Noble Phantasm so quickly(This is more for it's designation). Here, Mandricardo explicitly compared Durendal(Which he once wielded and had) to the Aegis Eclipse and states it's just as powerful.

Here, Hephaestus states he was only able to make 2 Arrows from the Materials he had and Achilles state if he had his shield, Ahkellius Kosmos(I'm not even sure how he lost this shield? Lostbelt Artemis? His encounter with Lostbelt Chiron?), Hephaestus could have made more(
Here, it's stated earlier that Hephaestus wanted both Armor and Shield so yeah). Here, after Hephaestus' final test, Goredolf believes that Super Orion simply needs to aim accurately at Lostbelt Artemis and that's it, Orion believes otherwise as even firing those areas is gonna damage his Spirit Origin and take a hell of a toll.

Strength, Durability, etc. For the Aegis Eclipse(And for Orion who wielded the damn thing)?

Here, when Paris tries to volunteer for using what would be the Aegis Eclipse, Apollo goes against that suggestion, bringing up he can't ever nock the arrow back even if he used enough strength to cause his Spirit Origin to crack or with his(Apollo's) help on top of that in comparison to Orion.

Here, Da Vinci states Orion only has 2 chances to get the job done as his Spirit will start unraveling at the seams after that, when Orion agrees to that, she states she will buff him so hard, he's gonna practically drop dead when they wear off.
Here, even with all of the Support Skills active, the instant Orion activates the Aegis Eclipse, his blood vessels start popping and spills from his veins in his arms and Ritsuka believes his arms can't handle the strain(He ends up firing 3 times anyway)

For the actual feats using the Aegis Eclipse in terms of power, see the Orion Orkos and Ortygia Amore Mio sections.

For Super Orion himself?
Endurance wise, ignoring the Aegis Eclipse stuff, he takes a bite from Cerebus without losing his arm Here.
Strength wise, he ends up taking out the Monsters during the night segment extremely easy(Of course considering his skills above) Here. Oh and obviously, Charlotte is useless, she even mentioned it herself awhile ago she can't handle a Demonic Beast in the slightest.

And that's basically it.
I could point out some of the other things like "His main edge doesn't work well against Humans and Divine Spirits" but I feel that's pretty evident in his My Room Lines to Quetzalcoatl, Astraea(Divine Spirit Servants, one a Pseudo), Martha(Who should be at the same tier as Jeanne D'Arc, especially for overwhelming a Dragon in physical might) and Achilles himself.

Or he can run on water but that should also be evident because I already listed it above.

It's not that Super Orion doesn't do much, it's more that he doesn't get the spotlight that characters like Nightingale do in their respective chapter so yeah. And he only unveils his Grand Saint Graph with OAM so while he is a very powerful Archer, he was still hiding his strongest ace the whole time so yeah.
 
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The original ver is still canon?

I say that Astolfo's evaporation of sanity is a merit of his own right since it gives hin his own version of instinct
 
The original ver is still canon?

Yes? Alot of the details in Tsukihime Remake explicitly came from questions asked of Nasu from the OG Tsukihime(Arcueid explicitly brings up the major flaw of her backup at 30% or less that she can't accurately backup against multiple different weapons at once, something Nasu stated is why Gilgamesh can defeat her at 30%).
Type Lumina also explicitly brings up Neco-Arc who heavily references the OG Tsukihime and came from it and the "Secret Character" at the end of the Boss Rush is all but implied to be Len from that very timeline alongside the other characters incoming for the "Tsukihime vs. Fate" War for the next Wave.

OG Tsukihime never got obliterated from canon, that never happened for any of the numerous Fate adaptations of Unlimited Blade Works, Heaven's Feel anime/movie/manga. People forget that the Kaliedoscope and Zelretch always, ALWAYS was a Multiverse deal from the word go(All 3 Main Routes are explicitly canon as different timelines from a question if Zelretch was to step in one was to happen, Hollow Axtraxia has Rin merged every single timeline, Good, Normal and Bad/Dead Ends, all into one which is why characters can remember things they shouldn't and even deaths that never happened in the main timeline) and FGO literally uses it to explain how you have Support Servants and FGO Arcade explicitly states it's a different Timeline altogether.
Nasu never stated at all the game was rendered non-canon and explicitly placed the Remake 10 years ahead of the Original on purpose precisely to avoid that.

I say that Astolfo's evaporation of sanity is a merit of his own right since it gives hin his own version of instinct

It also will make him not keep secrets at all and blab no matter what...