TYPE-Moon/Nasuverse Feats/General Thread - People Die If They Are Killed Edition

[Xhominid The Apex]

That’s weird given the power of her NP is definitely in excess of average and Akiha isn’t exactly beyond Ciel

That's why I said it could be a translation flub as Type-Lumina is full of those and it really doesn't make any sense considering Ahika would go insane if she went full power in general and the game doesn't have a "Red Ahika" either.
It's why I believe it's more of Ushi saying it in the sense that it was a practice fight and she can't get the chance to try and fight her at full power due to that issue.

 

[Type-Rey]

Akiha is definetly hyped up in the Remake.

Aside from the Ushi stuff, Arach who's more than likely a DAA implied that Akiha could kill her and that she's a basically a monster that's seen once in however many thousands of years iirc.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Alright, I have no problem with Ahika getting a rub, I just wasn't sure if she actually was or not.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Nasuverse Respect Thread

Fate Google Drive Tsukihime Google Drive Notable Unorganized Reference Resource Resource Link to use with Wayback Machine General Servant Information Nasu Hell Explanation Fate Completed Fate/Hollow Ataraxia Fate/Stay Night (Ufotable Anime) Fate/Stay Night (Visual Novel) Fate/Unlimited...

onelastforum.com

5th Grail War Servants reuploaded sans Gilgamesh, because fuck breaking apart 210K in characters between an 80K character post limit right now (which needs to be done in such a way that lets me edit in anime shit later when I can ever bother)

Not sure what to do with Hollow Ataraxia. I realistically don't have the time to comb through it to get the shit again.

If nothing else, my descriptions were essentially as close to verbatim as I could manage IIRC, so it only really harms it as a functional resource outside of here.

I'll add the Respect Thread to the front Page to make it easier for everyone else.

 

[ChaosTheory123]

I'll add the Respect Thread to the front Page to make it easier for everyone else.

Added Gilgamesh, took an hour of reformatting

Why the fuck does the forum add extra spaces between lines that didn't exist in the word docs I have this shit saved on @Ral

 

[Ral]

Added Gilgamesh, took an hour of reformatting

Why the fuck does the forum add extra spaces between lines that didn't exist in the word docs I have this shit saved on @Ral

What skin/style/theme do you use? It could be a number of things, but if I remember correctly, it's this cursed WYSIWYG editor XF uses, unless it's only this forum you experience the issue in?

 

[ChaosTheory123]

What skin/style/theme do you use? It could be a number of things, but if I remember correctly, it's this cursed WYSIWYG editor XF uses, unless it's only this forum you experience the issue in?

I'm using OLF (Dark) because anything brighter with my proneness to migraines is a bitch.

I used to at least be able to copy and paste shit in format on Fanverse if it was already in the QUOTE format, but it seems like even that isn't holding true here?

 

[GaRbS]

There's a lot of underestimation going about "Second Rate" Servants, whatever the fuck that even means , when for example, the weakest of them , or one of the weakest , Angry Manjew can trade blows with someone like Saber and not get turned into red mist, or getting shitblitzed .

Artoria remained on the defensive for nearly the entirety of the fight, gauging his power and waiting to see how he would play his hand with his Noble Phantasm. When she began her counterattack she literally defeated Angra in three blows, two to destroy his weapons and the third to one shot him.

And one of the things about Angra is that he can become a "top-class Servant" for the last few seconds before burning out by ignoring his limits and increasing his speed endlessly.

As far as physical stats go, even the differences between low tier and top tier people are not THAT high.

I can assure you that the difference in strength between Medea and Heracles is indeed THAT high.

 

[Type-Rey]

Artoria remained on the defensive for nearly the entirety of the fight, gauging his power and waiting to see how he would play his hand with his Noble Phantasm. When she began her counterattack she literally defeated Angra in three blows, two to destroy his weapons and the third to one shot him.

As per usual you're full of shit .
Of course you forgot to mention that he actually blocked her first strike with his swordbreaker .

If the difference in stats, mainly strength was that high, she would have blown him away with her first strike .No iffs and buts.

Not to mention that she didn't really one shot him cause he survived long enough to use Verg Avesta and to mock her a little afterwards.

And one of the things about Angra is that he can become a "top-class Servant" for the last few seconds before burning out by ignoring his limits and increasing his speed endlessly.

Ok ? And what does this have to do with him not getting immediately turned into red paste by Saber ?

I can assure you that the difference in strength between Medea and Heracles is indeed THAT high.

That difference would be the exact same if they were not Servants you stupid ****.

The difference is not made by the stats of their parameters, but by their very nature and what they specialize in.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

FYI, I talked to the Mods already, you legit try and start shit again GaRbS, you will be threadbanned again with zero tolerance.
I have no issue with debating but if I see anything that is out of the ordinary, you get the boot.

 

[ChaosTheory123]

Artoria remained on the defensive for nearly the entirety of the fight, gauging his power and waiting to see how he would play his hand with his Noble Phantasm. When she began her counterattack she literally defeated Angra in three blows, two to destroy his weapons and the third to one shot him.

Dunno dude, it’s pretty telling that the strength she can muster with full tilt Mana Burst did little more than bisect him and not even entirely, she had no follow through to split him clean. Says quite a bit about the weakest that the impact didn’t scatter his ass to the four winds.

Think FGO gave him some notable durability feats too. Like against Caster Gil’s GoB Mystic Codes.

And one of the things about Angra is that he can become a "top-class Servant" for the last few seconds before burning out by ignoring his limits and increasing his speed endlessly.

They do have enough of an initial exchange before that kicks in that she should have just plowed through his efforts if it was little better than wet tissue paper by comparison. Order of magnitude really doesn’t paint this exchange as even a gap of 10x. We go back to weight classes to highlight just how pithy differences in ability need to be before resistance becomes pointless.

I can assure you that the difference in strength between Medea and Heracles is indeed THAT high.

We already know she has shit that can take 2-3 lives from him before having no further recourse (both word of god and the fact her magecraft matched even Rin’s strongest jewel craft). Having the ability to strip him of even 1 life I pretty massive given what functions as the baseline to accomplish the task (Caladbolg II).

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

I'm going to regret this...

Artoria remained on the defensive for nearly the entirety of the fight, gauging his power and waiting to see how he would play his hand with his Noble Phantasm. When she began her counterattack she literally defeated Angra in three blows, two to destroy his weapons and the third to one shot him.

That doesn't mean anything. Shirou played defensively against most Servants in all of his routes and yet if he was as weak as people said, he would have been immediately pasted. Same with Cursed Arm Hassan and... virtually everyone he fought.

The differences in the gaps for Servants is hilariously overplayed outside of their Noble Phantasms, that's why Angra Mainyu didn't get turned to dust by Artoria in any fashion but when it came to Shinji Medusa, she got tossed like luggage because her Magical Energy levels was just that pathetic.

And one of the things about Angra is that he can become a "top-class Servant" for the last few seconds before burning out by ignoring his limits and increasing his speed endlessly.

Again, that doesn't really matter because again, he should have been rendered to paste before that point.
It's like how people fundamentally misunderstand why Jack The Ripper didn't get instantly murdered by Mordred even with all of her skills helping her in Apocrypha.
The gap is not as big as people say it is.

I can assure you that the difference in strength between Medea and Heracles is indeed THAT high.

No, it's really not unless you want to be absolutely coy and pretend that it's not their actual best strengths that are in play there.
Medea can literally create a shield as durable as Heracles' actual body(Which we have seen can stop Artoria's best attack from tearing his hand apart in the Anime among many, many other feats including from Alcides and From Hell JTR), Medea can blast a hole straight through a Mountain through a focused version of her basic Rain of Light spell, stopped Rin's strongest attack(Which is weaker than the one she can use to hurt Heracles) with hilarious ease in all mediums and in Prillya, had enough power to destroy the Mirror Dimension which housed all of Fuyuki with a single spell.

Medea was given her accolades in the past and even now when you have characters capable of busting down Mountains, Islands and even entire Countries and Continents(Let alone the World Texture and even the Planet if it wasn't for the Planet itself putting down safeguards) and Medea stands alongside the best.
Considering Illya explicitly decided to retreat and that's the reason Heracles didn't kill Kojirou speaks volumes of Medea's power and how Illya didn't want to tread lightly in fighting her even with Heracles and the power of being connected to Fuyuki's Grail at her side.

 

[ChaosTheory123]

Physical strength from FGO?

Angra Mainyu vs Kiritsugu Emiya (Servant Assassin)

Here, Angra Mainyu and Kiritsugu Emiya (Assassin) clash in FGO.

Durability from FGO?

Angra Mainyu vs Gilgamesh (Caster) and Ritsuka Fujimaru

Here, Angra Mainyu endures Gilgamesh's Mystic Code Gate of Babylon magecraft spam. Here, he's able to endure one of Ritsuka's Gandr shots too.

Angra Mainyu vs Mash Kyrielight

Also takes some kind of beating from a pissed off Mash here, here (the animation denotes retreat and all), and here.

Angra Mainyu vs Kiritsugu Emiya (Assassin)/Irisviel von Einzbern (Caster)

At the very least, he survived the encounter with Assassin Kiritsugu here (maybe? think this took place after the Kerry fight, but Iri's the one who beat him up here and here anyway).

I'll post the HA shit, but the links are dead because fuck youtube I guess?

Physical strength and speed?

Angra Mainyu vs Artoria Pendragon (Shirou Emiya)

Without Extinguishing Desire/Murderous Intent A

Here, Shirou Artoria and Angra Mainyu clash. Here, for every strike of Artoria's own, Angra Mainyu is able to attack her 3 or 4 times. His strength fails to match hers (while no match, its notable Artoria didn't just plow through his guard, so you can argue those 3 to 4 strikes were enough to act as a partially negating defensive effort).

Extinguishing Desire/Murderous Intent A

Here, Artoria and Angra Mainyu continue clashing. Angra Mainyu keeps getting faster, surpassing his own limits as he does so. Angra Mainyu's using his skill Murderous Intent/Extinguishing Desire. Here, all the same, Artoria continues to throw his strikes aside. Here, Angra Mainyu's Murderous Intent/Extinguishing Desire has increased his speed 100 fold since the fight began to try and match Artoria's own strikes (to no actual avail). Here, Artoria was only on the defensive to figure out what the fuck Angra Mainyu's plan was, wary of Noble Phantasm due to sheer disparity in stats. When she sees he's got no trump card evident, she begins her counterattack. Here, Angra Mainyu w/Murderous Intent/Extinguishing Desire catches Artoria's slash between his sword breaking knives to break Excalibur.

Angra Mainyu vs Unknown 3rd Grail War Saber

Here, Angra Mainyu and the Unknown 3rd Grail War Saber (taking the guise of Artoria Alter) clash. Here, Angra Mainyu is defeated by the Unknown 3rd Grail War Saber (depicted by Artoria Alter) having been unable to match sword against sword, his fatal wound was a pierced neck.

Angra Mainyu vs Unknown Master and Unknown 3rd Grail War Hassan

Here, Angra Mainyu was killed during this fight too (seems like it'd need to be after Bazett died if she didn't realize it)

Angra Mainyu vs Shade (aka Angra Mainyu's Corpse)

Here, this lone Shade murdered a family of 4, working on the 5th. Here, Angra Mainyu kills a Shade from behind with a surprise attack.

Angra Mainyu vs Shades

Here, Bazett is killing the Shades faster than Angra Mainyu can. For every 1 he's killing, Bazett is able to pulverize 3. Here, Angra Mainyu, despite himself indeed being the weakest Servant and having overall low battle specs, has no trouble fighting Shades. Here, while Bazett dealt with the Shades by killing them one by one in a matter of seconds, Angra Mainyu was able to completely hold them off while being entirely surrounded. His fighting style amounts to fighting to a draw.

Durability?

Here, Angra Mainyu needs to at least be durable enough to survive the strikes that hit him in order to use Verg Avesta to any notable effect. To use Verg Avesta to greatest effect, Angra Mainyu must endure a near fatal strike.

Angra Mainyu vs Artoria Pendragon (Shirou Emiya)

Here, Shirou Artoria uses Mana Burst to brake her way through Angra Mainyu's blades, both the one blocking Excalibur and the one aimed to strike her armor. Here, Same sword swing, Artoria mortally wounds Angra Mainyu (cleaving him from shoulder to waist). He's still durable enough where the wound isn't immediately fatal.

Angra Mainyu vs Herakles

Here, Angra Mainyu is running away from Herakles, his right leg has been pushed beyond its limits and he wouldn't be surprised if it were busted. Angra Mainyu's tapped for both his own magical energy and the energy Bazett has been supplying him. Here, to save Bazett from the charging Herakles, Angra Mainyu gave her a flying kick to shove her away. Here, Herakles charge "barely grazed" Angra Mainyu, but sent him flying from the force. Angra Mainyu endured this blow. Here, eating a strike from Herakles axe-sword would be crazy for Angra Mainyu as would his chances of slipping away unharmed would be low. Here, Angra Mainyu is doubtful he could survive a single blow from Herakles, his death would be instant unlike vs Artoria. Here, Herakles charge, that "barely grazed" Angra Mainyu, gravely injured Angra Mainyu's left leg. Here, Angra Mainyu seems to believe the extent of his fatal wound will only be having been split clean into 2 pieces. Here, Bazett figures Angra Mainyu only bought her about 5 minutes before Herakles arrives to ruin her day. Here, Angra Mainyu lasted just long enough against Herakles that he died around the time Bazett reached Einzbern Castle

Noble Phantasm?

Verg Avesta

Verg Avesta exposition here, here, and here. (great, I don't know what the exposition was anymore )

vs Artoria Pendragon (Shirou Emiya)

Here, Angra Mainyu uses Verg Avesta to translate his wound directly onto Artoria. Here, there is a disparity in magnitude between Angra Mainyu's wound and Artoria's. Where his will cause him to die in minutes, Artoria's will cause her to do no such thing. She will be fine herself entirely once Angra Mainyu kicks the bucket (so long as she doesn't move). Here, Artoria affirms the wound she suffered from his NP won't be enough to impede her, reminded of this once it became apparent to her Bazett wasn't going to sit idly.

Here, the combination of Verg Avesta and Fragarach was enough for Angra Mainyu and Bazett to overcome all the 3rd Grail War Servants and Artoria. Here, Bazett and Angra Mainyu's success fighting the Servants during their last loop is on the order of 1/4000 chance of having been able to occur. They basically did as near a perfect run at the loop as feasible.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

I was gonna mention thsoe but it seems like you was on the ball @ChaosTheory123
FGO actually does show moreso that Angra Mainyu is surprisingly on the level despite being the "Weakest Servant".
Also, he does fight Shirou Amakusa as well due to Amakusa... wanting the Grail even if it was corrupted in the latters' Interlude.

Ultimately, the main difference between Servants is literally just their Noble Phantasms, the skills of the Servant in question(There's a reason why it's consistently stated Knight Class Servants or Sabers > Everyone else... it's just simply the fact of absurd levels of experience in actually fighting rather than Raw Power alone) and very rarely, how far a character's Personal Skills can go(Artoria's Mana Burst is absurd due to the nature of her Dragon Heart coming from Albion itself, that's a hell of alot better quality than most other Dragon Hearts which is already bullshit. And then you have crap like Karna and Arjuna's which just gets silly).

 

[GaRbS]

As per usual you're full of shit .
Of course you forgot to mention that he actually blocked her first strike with his swordbreaker .

No, that is one of the three blows that I said Saber performed in that fight.

We already know she has shit that can take 2-3 lives from him before having no further recourse (both word of god and the fact her magecraft matched even Rin’s strongest jewel craft). Having the ability to strip him of even 1 life I pretty massive given what functions as the baseline to accomplish the task (Caladbolg II).

Huh? I'm talking about Medea's physical ability compared to Heracles', not anything else.

Not to mention that she didn't really one shot him cause he survived long enough to use Verg Avesta and to mock her a little afterwards.

He was completely defeated afterwards, so I consider it a one shot.

 

[Type-Rey]

No, that is one of the three blows that I said Saber performed in that fight.

That wasn't what i was addressing.

I didn't say that you didn't mention the three strikes or one of the three strikes.

I said that you didn't mention the feat that proves my point.

On purpose. Cause you're disingenuous. Always has been, always will be.

He was completely defeated afterwards, so I consider it a one shot.

You are factually wrong cause he was not completely defeated since he used his fucking NP.

Imagine this scenario playing out with any other opponent that had an NP that could actually kill her.

One shot means you kill your opponent in one shot, not give him the chance to use his NP.


At least try to use your only working braincell.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

I mean ChaosTheory literally just put up everything that happened in HA with Angra Mainyu fighting Artoria without using his boosted Skill and fighting Shades that literally outnumber his ass and he didn't die...

There's also the fact that he didn't instantly die when Artoria cleaved him almost in two as well...
Are we going by the "Servants are weak as shit mentality" again? When Artoria worked with a heavy handicap throughout most of Fate due to Cu getting her good with Gae Bolg to the shoulder? When Heracles can actually take multiple hits from GoB before he actually loses a life(Most of them don't even fully pierce through his body)? EMIYA having the same thing done to him when he was on E in UBW? If I take this outside of Fate/Stay Night, it just gets hilarious(Nero surviving WAY longer than reasonably possible against Saver in Last Encore or taking a TNR Excalibur Galatine TWICE before going down, Rama losing a chunk of his heart and still choosing to fight Beowulf himself despite Cu Alter's curse slowly destroying his Heart, Jeanne Alter had her heart pierced and still lived till the end, etc, etc.)

 

[ChaosTheory123]

No, that is one of the three blows that I said Saber performed in that fight.

Without Extinguishing Desire/Murderous Intent A

Here, Shirou Artoria and Angra Mainyu clash. Here, for every strike of Artoria's own, Angra Mainyu is able to attack her 3 or 4 times. His strength fails to match hers (while no match, its notable Artoria didn't just plow through his guard, so you can argue those 3 to 4 strikes were enough to act as a partially negating defensive effort).

Let's just focus on this exchange?

Huh? I'm talking about Medea's physical ability compared to Heracles', not anything else.

That's my bad then, hadn't gone back to reread shit

He was completely defeated afterwards, so I consider it a one shot.

What you consider a one shot and what functions as actual fact of function are different in scope dude

Verg Avesta only functions if his wounds are near fatal (after all, the NP itself is borderline worthless, it only functioning within this niche and not even particularly well as the wound it inflicted on Artoria as a mirror was hardly similar in scope to what would end Angra Mainyu's career here), the near is key and the fact that his form is mostly intact speaks volumes. You don't need to no sell something to determine how durable something is. Especially given how little force is actually required between causing bruise vs broken bones on a human scale? Let alone the difference between that and dismemberment? It's easy to infer just how sturdy his ass is

 

[ChaosTheory123]

Also, I'll probably handle Mahoyo shit when I can bother.

Been reading it before my next semester begins. Think I'm about halfway through? Nasu's sense of humor and ability to write dysfunctional characters interacting in slice of life scenes shines through nicely here if nothing else.

Wasn't expecting much combat, but I didn't realize that Aoko vs Alice was the first real major fight in the story.

 

[Type-Rey]

There's like three big fights overall so, Mahoyo is a little weak in this aspect.

It wouldn't necessarily be a problem but the way they are structured throught the story kinda messes with pacing.

That's one of the few issues i have with it, and it is mitigated by the quality . They very much went with quality over quantity .