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Dio Brando (Jojo's Bizarre Adventure) vs Issac Netero (HunterXHunter)
- Thread starter Bob74h
- Start date
Netero is massively slower but the second he lands a hit it's going to splatter Dio
that said who knows if he ever will land it due to the speed discrepancy, although Zero Hand probably still fucks Dio over
that said who knows if he ever will land it due to the speed discrepancy, although Zero Hand probably still fucks Dio over
I’d think the only thing Dio has that could even harm Netero would be the space ripper stingy eyes (since the anime version of that move got calced at city level or something as it sliced through clouds) but Stardust Crusaders Dio never used that move again so…
And I guess the other asterisk is that it can be deflected even by someone weaker like Joseph showed with him deflecting Straizo’s version with a shot glass infused with Hamon.
yeah anime SRSE was stupid strong but it's also significantly slower than any of post-Stand Dio's techniques so Netero shouldn't really have any issue dodging it even if we allowed anime feats here
Why would that matter with time stop?
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Does not matter, we see him still using his vampire strength even if he ignores his other abilites like creating ice so there is not a reason he cannot use that if he sees his reguler attacks with his stand are doing nothing. Also like other stands have shown he can just phase through to crush some of Netero's organs since we see other stand users use that at times.
That has less to do with strentgh and more to do with the way Joseph deflected the attack than anything and it could just be that Straights attack was weaker since he was a vampire for a shorter amount of time than Dio. Not to mention Netero cannot prepare to defend himself while the time stop is happening so he won't prepare himself for the SRSE attack.
Yet he never attempted it against Jotaro even at his most desperate. He resorted to spurting blood in Jotaro’s eyes rather than use it.
Can stands phase through other stands, or a hamon barrier? Cause a lot of nen users by default tend to have Ken activated.
Well, Netero’s Ken wouldn’t deactivate during the timestop. So that defense would still remain.
And we have Netero’s durability at small city level now as well http://outskirtsbattledomewiki.com/index.php/fictions/2723-character-profile-issac-netero
Above all as Other Galaxy mentioned earlier Zero Hand’s sheer range/radius makes it inescapable to Dio who just has FTL reactions, not long range movement.
also even without Nen pretty sure HxH guys have significantly higher durability than JoJo characters besides like uh Kars or something. Even a nenless Leorio from the first couple of arcs was already superhuman
PIS which is never applied in an OBD battle as unless stated otherwise both combatants are blood lusted at the start and if Dio sees his physical attacks are doing nothing than there is no reason he cannot use SRSE. None of the other stand users Dio fought could tank a direct hit from The World without their stands so Dio had no reason to use his other abilities and we see him literally describe himself as getting high off the World so in a fight where he sees his opponent is outright tanking hits from the World he should be able to put two and two together to see he needs to use other methods.
Since when is Nen equivalent with Stands or Hamon? We know Stands and Hamon are treated differently from each other in verse so how would any Nen user just resist being phased through unless they have actual feats for it?
Since when did he defend against phasing?
Small being the key word here, if SRSE is City level it is still higher and will therefore go though his defense while phasing could do the job unless Netero has feats of resisting it.
Wrong as being able to react at FTL speed means Dio can just repeatedly spam time stop to move himself farther and farther away since he is fast enough on his own to be supersonic so he should be able to move himself fast enough with repeated time stop to move away in time or just spam it to get closer and end Netero before he can finish his attack as he is only MHS.
But is he superhuman enough to resist phasing through his body to attack his heart or brain? is he superhuman enough with nen to resist SRSE if it lands a direct hit on him?
anime srse probably not but that's a non canon version of the feat anyways
otherwise probably? city block level attacks aren't much special in HxH, I think the town level explosion Killua tanked he wasn't using Ko either because he had no idea it was coming. Netero is leagues above him
I thought we through out the split durability argument for internal organs a while back because tanking any of these hits meant your organs had to be on some level able to survive that amount of energy?
otherwise probably? city block level attacks aren't much special in HxH, I think the town level explosion Killua tanked he wasn't using Ko either because he had no idea it was coming. Netero is leagues above him
I thought we through out the split durability argument for internal organs a while back because tanking any of these hits meant your organs had to be on some level able to survive that amount of energy?
Not non-canon with the anime which is the version specified with the OP.
Where did Killua tank a town level explosion and where is Ko stated as something that needs to be specifically focused on when using Nen? I thought when you use Nen at all you are using Ko, just not putting your all in it. If they need to be prepared for it than that means just using Nen will not help Netero in time stop since he will have no idea what is going on and will not be focusing on Ko when the World hits him. Also, unless we see Netero tanks something higher we can only assume that he is some degrees of town level+ without Ko which is still lower than the city level DC of SRSE and we still don't know if he can tank having his inner organs crushed through phasing.
Did we? if so I can take back my phasing comments, but we still have not touched the matter of SRSE. Would Dio's ice ability matter at all here as well?
I think you’ve got it the wrong way around. The phasing would need a feat of getting through a dense energy barrier as that’s not the same as phasing through just flesh and blood.
There are different levels to abilities like phasing and things characters that have that ability still can’t get through.
It’s similar to how not every character who can teleport can just teleport inside another character’s forcefield.
And another point. Correct me if I’m wrong, but from the few uses of stand intangibility I remember it’s mostly the stand user using it on himself (I.e Jotaro stopping his heart). Josuke when removing Aqua Necklace from his Mom’s body rather than attempt to intangibly stick Crazy Diamond’s arm in and pull it out resorted to punching through her body and restoring it after.
And as for Dio chaining timestop. The problem with that would be the cooldown between each timestop. A MHS massive radius beam like Zero Hand could just cover the gap Dio made from a single supersonic time-stop sprint before he could initiate a second time-stop unless you could prove the cooldown is insignificant (which I don’t remember it being).
oh my bad missed that, in that case time stop+SRSE is probably a valid wincon then
the Bombardier Beetle Ant explosion
Hunter X Hunter Feat - Bombardier Beetle Chimera Ant Explosion
Killua = 46 pixels Tree = 67 pixels Tree/Killua = 1.457 Killua = 1.58 meters (his official height) Tree = 2.302 meters Thick trees. These are also in the area just before the explosion. Tree (Red Lines) = 10 pixels Explosion (Green...
www.fanverse.org iirc Ko is when you specifically reinforce a part of your body with Nen, like what happened in the volleyball game.
but yeah anime version in this case, got better feats so
Not sure how ice works with this sort of thing tbh
Unless said energy barrier blocks things that are incorporeal than no, you are the one getting it wrong. Now if inner organs of Nen users are just as strong as the rest of their body than I will role back on that being a factor but as a general statement Nen needs feats of blocking Incorporeal beings capable of phasing before it can be said to just block them due to being energy.
Feats? And are they general defense for all nen users or are they specific to just those with said ability?
I don't see how a force field by itself should be able to block things like teleporting or phasing through unless specified that it can.
The former shows they can physically interact with people's organs and the latter is more Josuke not bothering since he is fast enough to instantly heal his mom in the time it takes to drive his hand through her body and take out Aqua Necklace. Even if not a general rule for most stand users it is for The World and Star Platinum as they are similar types of stands and nothing indicates that Jotaro or Dio cannot phase through other human beings when they can phase through objects and their own body.
Since when? I never saw or heard anywhere in the story that Dio has to cool down his time stops. All I see is him getting caught off-guard by Star Platinum, a ftl stand, and not being able to stop time fast enough before he gets his skull crushed. Jotaro getting caught off guard by the rat stand or SHA which have caught Star Platinum off-guard which should make them ftl stand as well which does not help Netero who is only MHS.
Unless you provide there is a cooldown at all, nothing is stopping Dio from just making another time stop in the slip second his last one ends before Netero can fire off the Zero Hand.
Also, when could Netero just instantly fire off the Zero hand? last I remember he had to wait his time for it to build up before firing it or the right distance to use it on Meruem and if Dio is ftl than that gives him more than enough to time to chain his time stops to get closer or further away from him.
So does a Nen user have to focus on Ko to have higher than town level durability? Because if so than Netero will be even more vulnerable than I thought since he will have no idea about The World and time stop and will instead be focused on attack since he is bloodlusted so Dio may even be able to kill him with just a time stop barrage since his DC is town Level unless that just means they are equal and Dio needs Small city to City level attacks to break though his defense. In which case SRSE should do the trick.oh my bad missed that, in that case time stop+SRSE is probably a valid wincon then
the Bombardier Beetle Ant explosion
Got into the KilotonsHunter X Hunter Feat - Bombardier Beetle Chimera Ant Explosion
Killua = 46 pixels Tree = 67 pixels Tree/Killua = 1.457 Killua = 1.58 meters (his official height) Tree = 2.302 meters Thick trees. These are also in the area just before the explosion. Tree (Red Lines) = 10 pixels Explosion (Green...
iirc Ko is when you specifically reinforce a part of your body with Nen, like what happened in the volleyball game.
Would be interesting to make a meta thread on it.
There are multiple forms of intangibility. And forcefields or energy barriers could block it and teleportation (or at least the forms of teleportation and intangibility where the user molecularly disassembles) because the molecules still exist and getting bombarded by energy by attempting to go through it would do damage to and force back said molecules.
Now whatever form of intangibility Star Platinum or The World uses is never specified. But there’s nothing to really disprove it being molecular. Stands aren’t actual spirits after all, more just psychic manifestations of energy.
Iirc Dio was stuck in Jotaro’s timestop for multiple seconds after his own timestop had ran out rather than just being able to reactivate it. Jotaro didn’t immediately attack the moment he surprised Dio by appearing on top of the road roller. So that had nothing to do with Jotaro having FTL reactions. Dio just could not move for multiple seconds. Possibly indicating the length of the cooldown is the length the timestop went on for.
And Dio is pretty damn cocky so why would he first resort to running away the moment he sees Netero charging the attack? Being bloodlusted doesn’t change that his lack of knowledge could result in him attempting to counter or prevent the attack and getting caught in the blast radius as a result.
And just one more thing. It might be good to find someone who remembers the original calc results or can do a new calc for the SRSE cloud splitting cause while I said it was city level or something that’s just going off memory. It very well could be lower than I remembered (maybe the exact result is small-city level like Netero’s nen defense so it could be blocked).
Any showcase of this in HxH?
But they are shown to be incorporeal and can phase through things which is shown, and the way Stands are allows them to interact with supernatural beings and things as shown in part 4 while also interacting with things scientifically.
I'm sorry if maybe you are not explaining this clearly but nothing you said there made any mention of a "cooldown" all I saw in that fight was Dio was assuming his time stop was 11 seconds only to find out Jotaro stopped time before Dio crushed him with The World and the time after 9 seconds was all Jotaro's doing. Dio did not even know he was in Jotaro's time stop until Jotaro told him and nothing indicated that Dio could not have stopped time again if he knew Jotaro was alive and had learned to stop time on his own. Even if there was a "cooldown" just how long is it? We are talking about guys who react to shit in FTL speed so just how long would that be for them to matter in a vs battle?
I'll ask the same thing for why Netero would instantly use the Zero hand when he did not use it until the end of the fight with Meruem? Why would Dio bother with countering an attack and not attack Netero himself first? and if he did why would Netero react first when his reactions are slower than Dio's? Why would Dio not start to realize that Netero can tank the World's blows no matter how hard and long he hits and decide not to try something else like SRSE?
It would be nice if someone could but even if small city level based off what OG said his dc is only town level+ at best since Nen users need to focus on Ko in order to max out their defense.
This is just going over the basic mechanics of molecular intangibility and energy/forcefields and how they usually interact across fiction. My point is the burden of proof wouldn’t just be on me to show Nen can block Stand Phasing, but could be on you to show Stand Phasing can bypass energy fields.
But the mechanics of the phasing itself are never specified to be spiritual in nature. If a natural lightning strike (pure energy) for example hit a stand, is there really enough evidence to say the stand would be unaffected? I don’t really think there would be much of a distinction from the lightning strike and say.. Red Hot Chili Pepper’s electrical attacks.
In the anime he visibly reacted in surprise to being frozen in Jotaro’s timestop. He had enough awareness that if he could’ve just immediately reactivated his own timestop he would’ve done it rather than let himself remain frozen.
Jotaro to begin with activated his timestop after Dio’s so we know Timestop can be activated within a timestop to allow the stand user to be unfrozen.
The cooldown would probably be for the same duration the timestop was active for given what we’ve seen. The only time Jotaro ever really consecutively used timestop was when he was using them for one or two seconds each while dodging the Rat stand’s darts.
And to be clear every instance of seconds being brought up during timestop they are treated as actual seconds going by, not the FTL reaction stand user’s perception of seconds, but actual seconds. So the cooldown shouldn’t be lessened by their perception just like the actual time stops aren’t treated like they are an eternity for characters who can react at FTL.
Netero may have slower reactions but he isn’t as limited when it comes to long-distance movement. Killua could keep his speed-boosting Kanmaru form going for miles on end, and Cheetu sprinted at top speed for days.
So the MHS hands and arms of Netero’s Bodhisvitta (as well as the Blast Radius of Zero Hand’s energy) would cross a larger distance than Dio’s supersonic movement in the same span of time. Dio wouldn’t see the Bodhisvitta arm moving to begin with (considering the op mentions neither can see each other’s ability) so wouldn’t even say think to dodge. And even if Dio somehow figured out an invisible attack was coming for him and tried to make The World punch it away, The World would get easily overpowered and both it and Dio would get slammed into the ground and squashed.
Now in the most favorable scenario Dio either activates timestop at the very start or activates it right before the Bodhisvitta hand can hit him somehow despite him not being able to see it. But in either case the moment timestop runs out the Bodhisvitta can just take another swing, and who knows if Dio would be lucky enough to sense another invisible attack right after evading the first. Evading what you can’t see coming (especially something as massive as the Bodhisvitta hands moving at MHS) requires more than just reaction speed I would think.
I don’t see how Dio’s massively slower movement relative to his reactions wouldn’t prove to be a problem when Netero doesn’t have the same disparity with the movement of himself and his attacks.
Nah. Ko is when a nen user is focusing their nen in a specific area (making it a bit denser basically) while Ken is them covering their entire body with it as a sort of aura barrier. It’s only more durable in relation to Ken, but not that huge a gap. And Ken is something a nen user would naturally go into a fight already having activated.