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Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 5: Diamonds are fleeting. Stupid lasts forever

Is there a good review/summary anywhere explaining how this series started off promising but became terrible? Because I'm morbidly curious.
As someone who followed it from the first year it was publishing I can kinda summarize

So there were always issues from the beginning, but a lot of us were significantly younger and kinda just overlooked or didn't notice some of it at the time. Nakaba had made Kongou Banchou, which was a really fun straightforward action manga, so he had some good will going in. His art's really good, there weren't really any contemporary medieval fantasy shounen out at the time, and it starts off with a lot of mystery because the main characters are scattered and framed for a murder, there's this whole Demon angle that they spend a really long time building up to, and Nakaba for the first 80~ chapters was really meticulous and consistent about small details in the worldbuilding. It had some pretty nice and exciting fight choreography and the secondary mc Ban was just kinda universally seen as "cool". It had a lot going for it, but reading something at 17 vs the hindsight I have now and with a lot of Nakaba's more disturbing tendencies revealed, there were tons of red flags back then that I just kinda handwaved at the time as "whatever this stuff happens in manga" but spoiler: for some reason Nakaba's obsessed with making characters into ****philes at random. I genuinely have no clue why and of course I hope he isn't an irl creep, but it's so consistent in NnT and its sequel that it's practically all he's remembered for now.

On a strictly plot level, something weird starts to happen around 100 chapters in after the first major arc concludes. It's a gradual slide, but more focus is given to the Demons which should be a good thing, but the story starts to focus on the main character to such a degree that it actively ruins every other character. It's hard to communicate why this is so awful without actually reading it, but it's jarring because the first 100 chapters give basically every main character a fair shake, a range of fights, motivations, things to do etc. The second and third chunks completely remove almost all of this to focus on Meliodas, but the problem is he isn't even likable, his defining character trait is being a creepy pervert, but you were led to believe he had this tragic history and deep backstory that would tie into everything else. And he did. Sort of. Once we actually find out what it was, it's a combination of the worst cliches you've ever seen and the worst possible resolutions you can imagine. Those 10 Demon Lords we just introduced that are supposed to be like nothing in the world now? Meliodas was secretly the most powerful figure in the world all along and just was missing his powers, and effortlessly beats them at every turn. That dramatic backstory? The demon involved in the majority of the arcs and planning and suffering gets revealed to basically be a lesser Demon compared to the main ones, except he's the only one who has actually done anything plot relevant and thus the one people are actually invested in. He gets killed unceremoniously in a one chapter one-sided fight.

Things basically don't get better. The plot points continue to just suck ass, the reveals are increasingly disappointing except for this one weird Angel plotline where one character is revealed to have been a completely different person the entire time but even they weren't aware of it. Would have actually been interesting if the manga wasn't awful by this time. This is coupled with continually more creepy developments. Meliodas' infamous "get your hands off my woman!" line while holding an infant is the tip of the iceberg. In hindsight protagonists like King fell in love with other protagonist Diane when she was 9 years old. We get an "amazing reveal" that Merlin all along was in love with Meliodas because he's so super cool and powerful and also that her true form looks like a small child and also that she stole a bunch of power from the Demon King and Angel Goddess because she literally said "can I have some power" and just walks off with it.

It is genuinely the worst manga I've ever read and everything above doesn't do justice to how bad it actually is. The sequel doubled down on ****phile characters by having other characters even comment on it in series. I don't know wtf happened to him.
 
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Alright, gonna nip this one in the bud before it gets really retarded:

Yes, Saber Alter has unlimited Magical Energy, no, it's not because of her Dragon Core but Dark Sakura being connected to her.

Yes, both Saber and Saber Alter do benefit from their Dragon Core(Even in F/SN for Saber) but no, it's not the level of literal unlimited magical energy while she's alive. It's most likely gimped due to her being summoned wrong similar to Siegfried's Dragon Reactor not working properly in Apocrypha till he gave it to Sieg.

Yes, Servants explicitly have a fuckton of Magical Energy from the Planet to the point that Summer Jeanne(A weaker version than her Ruler as explicitly stated plenty of times Extra Classes give Servants a big boost in power) can still summon a whole ass ocean and not be dead on the spot. No, they don't have unlimited Magical Energy even then. Basically if your main gauge of Servant staying power is stuck in F/SN, realize that it was basically a sloppily done HGW that was full of people who had no idea what they was doing outside of like 3 people and they wasn't helping worth shit)
 
Alright, gonna nip this one in the bud before it gets really retarded:

Yes, Saber Alter has unlimited Magical Energy, no, it's not because of her Dragon Core but Dark Sakura being connected to her.

Yes, both Saber and Saber Alter do benefit from their Dragon Core(Even in F/SN for Saber) but no, it's not the level of literal unlimited magical energy while she's alive. It's most likely gimped due to her being summoned wrong similar to Siegfried's Dragon Reactor not working properly in Apocrypha till he gave it to Sieg.

Yes, Servants explicitly have a fuckton of Magical Energy from the Planet to the point that Summer Jeanne(A weaker version than her Ruler as explicitly stated plenty of times Extra Classes give Servants a big boost in power) can still summon a whole ass ocean and not be dead on the spot. No, they don't have unlimited Magical Energy even then. Basically if your main gauge of Servant staying power is stuck in F/SN, realize that it was basically a sloppily done HGW that was full of people who had no idea what they was doing outside of like 3 people and they wasn't helping worth shit)
I know, we were just discussing the regeneration of Servants. I gave the example of Arturia Alter. Salfark replied that only Alter has this and only because she is connected to the Grail.

Actually, to which I replied that she already has a lot of magical energy, so she, like Medea, can regenerate quite well.
 
I know, we were just discussing the regeneration of Servants. I gave the example of Arturia Alter. Salfark replied that only Alter has this and only because she is connected to the Grail.

Actually, to which I replied that she already has a lot of magical energy, so she, like Medea, can regenerate quite well.

To be fair for Medea, she's using a spell to make her heal even faster than Servants usually do(It's why she was able to "survive" against Gate of Babylon in the Fate Route for so long) and Saber Alter was under the Grail which allowed her to heal from even fatal injuries for Servants. Otherwise it's ultimately fine, Servants can heal from even serious injuries or even lost limbs if they have enough Magical Energy(aka not stupidly using their Noble Phantasms like retards) but it's not in seconds though but at the same time it's still not enough to really capitalize either.

And inb4 someone tries to mention it, Gilgamesh was fully incarnated and had a flesh and blood body, he can't really restore that, same with Amakusa.
 
As someone who followed it from the first year it was publishing I can kinda summarize

So there were always issues from the beginning, but a lot of us were significantly younger and kinda just overlooked or didn't notice some of it at the time. Nakaba had made Kongou Banchou, which was a really fun straightforward action manga, so he had some good will going in. His art's really good, there weren't really any contemporary medieval fantasy shounen out at the time, and it starts off with a lot of mystery because the main characters are scattered and framed for a murder, there's this whole Demon angle that they spend a really long time building up to, and Nakaba for the first 80~ chapters was really meticulous and consistent about small details in the worldbuilding. It had some pretty nice and exciting fight choreography and the secondary mc Ban was just kinda universally seen as "cool". It had a lot going for it, but reading something at 17 vs the hindsight I have now and with a lot of Nakaba's more disturbing tendencies revealed, there were tons of red flags back then that I just kinda handwaved at the time as "whatever this stuff happens in manga" but spoiler: for some reason Nakaba's obsessed with making characters into ****philes at random. I genuinely have no clue why and of course I hope he isn't an irl creep, but it's so consistent in NnT and its sequel that it's practically all he's remembered for now.

On a strictly plot level, something weird starts to happen around 100 chapters in after the first major arc concludes. It's a gradual slide, but more focus is given to the Demons which should be a good thing, but the story starts to focus on the main character to such a degree that it actively ruins every other character. It's hard to communicate why this is so awful without actually reading it, but it's jarring because the first 100 chapters give basically every main character a fair shake, a range of fights, motivations, things to do etc. The second and third chunks completely remove almost all of this to focus on Meliodas, but the problem is he isn't even likable, his defining character trait is being a creepy pervert, but you were led to believe he had this tragic history and deep backstory that would tie into everything else. And he did. Sort of. Once we actually find out what it was, it's a combination of the worst cliches you've ever seen and the worst possible resolutions you can imagine. Those 10 Demon Lords we just introduced that are supposed to be like nothing in the world now? Meliodas was secretly the most powerful figure in the world all along and just was missing his powers, and effortlessly beats them at every turn. That dramatic backstory? The demon involved in the majority of the arcs and planning and suffering gets revealed to basically be a lesser Demon compared to the main ones, except he's the only one who has actually done anything plot relevant and thus the one people are actually invested in. He gets killed unceremoniously in a one chapter one-sided fight.

Things basically don't get better. The plot points continue to just suck ass, the reveals are increasingly disappointing except for this one weird Angel plotline where one character is revealed to have been a completely different person the entire time but even they weren't aware of it. Would have actually been interesting if the manga wasn't awful by this time. This is coupled with continually more creepy developments. Meliodas' infamous "get your hands off my woman!" line while holding an infant is the tip of the iceberg. In hindsight protagonists like King fell in love with other protagonist Diane when she was 9 years old. We get an "amazing reveal" that Merlin all along was in love with Meliodas because he's so super cool and powerful and also that her true form looks like a small child and also that she stole a bunch of power from the Demon King and Angel Goddess because she literally said "can I have some power" and just walks off with it.

It is genuinely the worst manga I've ever read and everything above doesn't do justice to how bad it actually is. The sequel doubled down on ****phile characters by having other characters even comment on it in series. I don't know wtf happened to him.
OIP.aAZWJTSgd6KxAT5otGzk3QAAAA

It was right here where it all fell apart. this shit was MIND BOGGLING. cause who the fuck says this while holding a baby
 
OIP.aAZWJTSgd6KxAT5otGzk3QAAAA

It was right here where it all fell apart. this shit was MIND BOGGLING. cause who the fuck says this while holding a baby
King and Diane is actually far far worse
Elizabeth was in some weird reincarnation limbo sort of deal, Meliodas was originally in a relationship with her when she was an adult and he knew she constantly reincarnated. It's still weird and bad, but King is basically a groomer of an actual child. idk how anybody let that one slide

4 Knights of the Apocalypse is apparently even worse with this
 
King and Diane is actually far far worse
Elizabeth was in some weird reincarnation limbo sort of deal, Meliodas was originally in a relationship with her when she was an adult and he knew she constantly reincarnated. It's still weird and bad, but King is basically a groomer of an actual child. idk how anybody let that one slide

4 Knights of the Apocalypse is apparently even worse with this

1. Yes unironically King and Diane is worse than this.
Atleast with Meliodas and Elizabeth, it was some retarded ass curse that forced Meliodas to live and anytime he dies, he loses more and more of his emotions while Elizabeth is forced to meet Meliodas no matter what, find out who she really is to him and die after 3 days.(Now having said that, having him say such a thing is the DUMBEST SHIT EVER, especially to who will become her FOSTER FATHER and his KNIGHTS)

Atleast with Ban and Elaine it's the "1000 year old loli" trope and Elaine atleast grew taller after awhile(It's more or less weird as Elaine, like King and Helbram, can shapeshift... so why not shapeshift into an older form?"(Again, this is genuinely just dumb due to the nature of Fairies being able to shapeshift and Elaine not using it to any degree to avoid any mishaps nor Nakaba doing so)

King and Diane, despite being the most wholesome, is genuinely the most fucked up by adding that King met Diane when she was 9 and feel in love with her only to then memory wipe her and stew decades after the fact.
It just makes him trying to get her attention and love him back extremely creepy as fuck.

2. Yes, 4 Knights of the Apocalypse is even worse as Gawain has Merlin syndrome, Jericho is in love with Lancelot(aka Ban's SON) and Guinevere is a fucking CHILD that Merlin literally tried to get Arthur to marry who is also the love interest to LANCELOT. That's all I covered before I pretty much walked out of the series.
 
King and Diane is actually far far worse
Elizabeth was in some weird reincarnation limbo sort of deal, Meliodas was originally in a relationship with her when she was an adult and he knew she constantly reincarnated. It's still weird and bad, but King is basically a groomer of an actual child. idk how anybody let that one slide

4 Knights of the Apocalypse is apparently even worse with this

If my significant other died and reincarnated as a baby, I'd be happy and relieved she was alive, but the idea of resuming a relationship with her would never once cross my mind.
 
King and Diane is actually far far worse
Elizabeth was in some weird reincarnation limbo sort of deal, Meliodas was originally in a relationship with her when she was an adult and he knew she constantly reincarnated. It's still weird and bad, but King is basically a groomer of an actual child. idk how anybody let that one slide

4 Knights of the Apocalypse is apparently even worse with this
1. Yes unironically King and Diane is worse than this.
Atleast with Meliodas and Elizabeth, it was some retarded ass curse that forced Meliodas to live and anytime he dies, he loses more and more of his emotions while Elizabeth is forced to meet Meliodas no matter what, find out who she really is to him and die after 3 days.(Now having said that, having him say such a thing is the DUMBEST SHIT EVER, especially to who will become her FOSTER FATHER and his KNIGHTS)

Atleast with Ban and Elaine it's the "1000 year old loli" trope and Elaine atleast grew taller after awhile(It's more or less weird as Elaine, like King and Helbram, can shapeshift... so why not shapeshift into an older form?"(Again, this is genuinely just dumb due to the nature of Fairies being able to shapeshift and Elaine not using it to any degree to avoid any mishaps nor Nakaba doing so)

King and Diane, despite being the most wholesome, is genuinely the most fucked up by adding that King met Diane when she was 9 and feel in love with her only to then memory wipe her and stew decades after the fact.
It just makes him trying to get her attention and love him back extremely creepy as fuck.

2. Yes, 4 Knights of the Apocalypse is even worse as Gawain has Merlin syndrome, Jericho is in love with Lancelot(aka Ban's SON) and Guinevere is a fucking CHILD that Merlin literally tried to get Arthur to marry who is also the love interest to LANCELOT. That's all I covered before I pretty much walked out of the series.
Ban and Elaine is hilarious cause its a 1000 year old midget hooking up with a young boy

You gotta remember shes not in a child body, thats just how her race looks. even King has a childlike appearance
 
Ban and Elaine is hilarious cause its a 1000 year old midget hooking up with a young boy

You gotta remember shes not in a child body, thats just how her race looks. even King has a childlike appearance

That's pretty much what my point is, I've seen alot of people go full stupid over the "1000 Year Old Loli" shit so atleast Nakaba could have given her an "older form" so people could shut up about it. It's genuinely nowhere near as bad as King/Diane, Meliodas/Elizabeth or Gowther in general...
shudder

Until I read TvTropes for 4 Knights of the Apocalypse and I have a disgust for Nakaba that I haven't even felt in such a long time.
Crosses the Line Twice: Lancelot's subplot in the Liones arc, involving as it does his friends getting beaten half to death by law enforcement, a twelve-year-old stealing his first kiss, demons attacking the city and beating his friends up again, and his teacher telling him with utter seriousness that she's a ****phile who's been attracted to him since he was a preteen. And also that she's fucking an alternate magical sexdoll of him made by King Arthur. At some point, the subplot feels less like a logical series of events than the result of the author thinking "How many traumas can I put this character through in one day?"
Why you gotta make Arthur explicit in this shit?! God-Fucking-DAMMIT!
 
ban's situation with elaine is actually even more disgusting, cuz, elaine despite being an elf of hundred of years in age, her appearance is that of a child, and feels so off, watching them being couple

seeing her, having a relationship with a grown ass man like ban (who design wise, is legit a cool grimmjow clone, and most of us overall, never had a problem with him, aside the elaine thing), who should had a relationship with the likes of jericho instead, cuz not only they fit more, their chemistry was also much better, nakaba missed a big chance with this

the ban/elaine situation overall was always super creepy/disturbing thing in my eyes, at least as creepy/disturbing as, the situation with ningenliodas had with elizabeth, like some bs nakaba was trying to promote, in order to please the sick fans who supported this

the series had so many degenerate/atrocious tropes, especially on the ''romance'' part, generally
 
in other words

kongou banchou will always be, nakaba's best series, like rave is to mashima, like how you go, from a super manly series like kb, to nnt, at least mashima, in fail tail, he was promoting his thirsty genes, by promoting busty chicks, cuz, he firstly, an ecchi artist :mjlol

its

truly

crazy
 
That's pretty much what my point is, I've seen alot of people go full stupid over the "1000 Year Old Loli" shit so atleast Nakaba could have given her an "older form" so people could shut up about it. It's genuinely nowhere near as bad as King/Diane, Meliodas/Elizabeth or Gowther in general...
shudder

Until I read TvTropes for 4 Knights of the Apocalypse and I have a disgust for Nakaba that I haven't even felt in such a long time.

Why you gotta make Arthur explicit in this shit?! God-Fucking-DAMMIT!
Dont forget that Escanor and Merlins daughter does the same shit that Merlin did where shes actually a child and uses magic to make herself look older.

Nakaba is truly on some fucking drugs or something to be writing this hot ASS
 
Dont forget that Escanor and Merlins daughter does the same shit that Merlin did where shes actually a child and uses magic to make herself look older.

Nakaba is truly on some fucking drugs or something to be writing this hot ASS

I'm still wondering how the fuck is that possible in that she's Merlin and Escanor's kid?! When the fuck did they hook up?! When Merlin kissed him before he died?! The fuck?!
 
dude it wasnt even the modding the dude became a full on translator for the series and was buying obscure overseas NnT one-shots to make sure they were available in english

I regret either of us reading this shit bro


it was serialized on 2012 or something, first 100 chaps, were solid, despite it's disturbing tropes, on the romance part, but you could semi ''overlook'' them, cuz the plot was moving on a not cheesy dumb pace, plus. the fights had good choreo

after the hendri fight (which felt like the average jrpg final boss fight), the downgrade in quality, it was so obvious

plus, when escanor first appeared, all of us thought it would pick up again, but nah, as the chaps kept progressing, after the escanor vs estarossa fight, nakaba decided to go even more full terrible/inconsistent mode, and hakai the quality of his own series, cuz he felt it
 
it was serialized on 2012 or something, first 100 chaps, were solid, despite it's disturbing tropes, on the romance part, but you could semi ''overlook'' them, cuz the plot was moving on a not cheesy dumb pace, plus. the fights had good choreo

after the hendri fight (which felt like the average jrpg final boss fight), the downgrade in quality, it was so obvious

plus, when escanor first appeared, all of us thought it would pick up again, but nah, as the chaps kept progressing, after the escanor vs estarossa fight, nakaba decided to go even more full terrible/inconsistent mode, and hakai the quality of his own series, cuz he felt it
the hendrickson fight was so weird, that whole arc had a lot of lesser red flags like the sudden explanation for Gilthunder being a villain was actually that he was being held hostage and this was also all introduced and resolved in one chapter lol

It's just so weird because up to this point Nakaba played it extremely safe with planning his plot points and there were very few last minute changes or obvious retcons until then. It's like two different people wrote it almost.

Even without all the creepy **** stuff it would have still been an abysmal manga around the halfway point at least but when you have all of that combined...
I%27m_out_meme_cover.jpg
 
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