Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 4 Part 2: Electric Boogaloo

Crimson Dragoon said:

Again, it’s also very easy to shit on Garou too as Chaos and I pointed out

Anyway, no one escapes the inconsistency problems, people shit on comics more because of the amount of writers (with some really liking their pet characters a tad too much) and decades of material. Kind of understandable, but then you have people like CoolCubed who doesn’t seem to be interested in any kind of honest debate and basically just acts like a youtuber trying to farm for attention with some “debunk video”.

Even with that whole oodles of writers and decades of material thing, there’s still a pretty broad general picture you can paint of Heralds/top end space heroes at their “best”

• Thor’s Mjolnir can bust planets as said decades ago and then is brought back up again several years later by Jason Aaron
• Gladiator punches a planet to pieces
• Gladiator has narrative hype about being able to crush a neutron star or something and then again with him being able to rip apart a black hole.
• Also survives containing an explosion that would’ve wasted half a solar system according to Reed
• Surfer destroys a planet and also a nearby moon with his clash against Morg, fights Red Shift in a black hole, then destroys a planet again in Annihilation just to prove a point
• Terrax busts a planet just after a chunk of his Power Cosmic got slurped up by Randau
• Ronan’s energy manipulation plus Quasar’s raw power stopping two stars from going nova and conjoined them in Annihilators, with guidance from Surfer’s cosmic awareness
• The Annihilators then rearrange the planets to adjust them to more suitable orbits
• Then it’s mentioned they have to deal with a sentient black hole

Mucking about with celestial bodies aren’t really treated as one-offs for guys on that tier. Yeah, you can go lower, pathetically lower even, but that applies to like 90% of super powered fiction. People who can wreck planets won’t do it all the time for one reason or another

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Also amazing that people somehow miss that maybe

just maybe

Thor and others just maybe don't want to bust the planet they kinda live on

Yeah nah that Yaldabaoth vs Fate thread is some ass

with my passing knowledge of Fate and having played Persona 5 Royal myself, Yaldabaoth would 100% be considered a Beast by the Human Order



How is this up for discussion?

I mean sure but Archer would have to hold those swords to use them, generally. Yuta has to, and even if Archer can control the replicated blades telekinetically there's not a lot of evidence he could use newly created swords' techniques from long range.

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No he doesn't. EMIYA doesn't need to hold the swords to use them, it's just him doing so as an Archer. We see him literally creating floating swords like Gilgamesh on like 3 different occasions in UBW alone, let alone other series where he can do GoB spam with the best of them.

It does not. If a CT is imbued into the domain's barrier, then it's not placed in the katanas. Only the other CTs are placed in the katanas.

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Jacob's Ladder somehow doesn't exist in Yuta's Domain Expansion but it somehow exists in it's barriers instead... despite other Cursed Techniques are only able to be implanted in the Swords... yeah, none of this makes sense...

Nothing in theory, but that seems like something that would require knowledge he doesn't have. After all, most RMs can't simply be breached from the outside like that. Also, the fact that Emiya might just die from the sure-hit, or at least be seriously injured by it.

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So EMIYA... will just do nothing because apparently, the guy will just stand there like a lemon because he doesn't understand what a Domain Expansion is? Despite it coming off on it's best days like a Bounded Field or a Reality Marble?
...Starsight, are you mentally retarded? Do people realize EMIYA is not a moron and he basically planned out the entirety of UBW to basically favor everything he wanted? He only lost to Shirou but basically succeeded in every other facet. He's not going to just fall into Yuta's DE because "I don't know what it is so I'll just stand there, let it take me and just die"

Why is that an NLF? Rule 13 would just mean that Technique Extinguishment works on NPs like it does on cursed objects; whether or not it can successfully negate the effects depends entirely on feats, though Emiya's Tracing doesn't exactly have feats for resisting getting disrupted like that.

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Why is it a NLF?
Noble Phantasms are exactly like Cursed Objects and thus should be easily destroyed by Technique Extinguishment

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Yeah, I wonder why people are saying that's a NLF... especially when you ignore the other side of that coin in that EMIYA's Reality Marble would render the Sure Hit worthless, EMIYA shits on Yuta in terms of Energy levels and finesse with his Reality Marble, meaning at best, Yuta's DE would stick around for a second before it's gone.

And Rule 13 might let UBW clash, but even clashing doesn't necessarily negate sure-hits. For instance, when Malevolent Shrine and UV overlapped, when Sukuna turned off his sure-hit effect, that let UV's sure-hit effect resume hitting everything. The only reason that Sukuna wasn't affected was because he was touching Gojo at the time and therefore wasn't targeted. Megumi canceling out Dagon's sure-hit was because his own incomplete domain was directly touching and interacting with Dagon's barrier.

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Malevolent Shrine barreling through Unlimited Void =/= Yuta's Authentic Mutual Love beating EMIYA's Unlimited Blade Works without proof. This is like saying Malevolent Shrine can defeat Goetia's Reality Marble.

Whether or not you think UBW would win the tug of war between Authentic Mutual Love would likely be entirely up to OP fiat, since there's no way to compare how "refined" each one is.

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No it is not, Jesus Christ...
That's not up to any OP to assume that's the case or not, bring in your proof of why Authentic Mutual Love will defeat Unlimited Blade Works in a clash, don't pretend it will because of fan-fiction. If you have no proof, stop pretending your absence of evidence equals the evidence of absence.

With OG VN/Anime feats, his regular arrows doesn't have the capabilities to decimate buildings, that would be something an NP would do.

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Here, Herakles tanks 8 arrows from EMIYA suggested to be able to mow down houses. Here, an arrow from EMIYA with the power of a tankshell hits Herakles temple. Here, Herakles tanks 3 more of EMIYA's arrows to the forehead. Here, Herakles charges Artoria, both EMIYA's arrows and Rin's obsidian jewel magic attack fail to stop his charge or damage him through God Hand.

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Man, these people should not allowed to cook...


Who the fuck let Nursery in here?! Isn't there an MHA thread he should be salvaging?

I mean, sure, maybe not on the same level as Ramesseum, but why does Triste just get the go ahead there?
Both are basically the same thing, Don Quixote just specifically forces 'mystery' to be locked to basically 17th century Spain. It's not some grand thing there like Ramesseum (even if Don Quixote is God Tier in my heart.)

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"They work in an extremely off sense of similarly if you squint your eyes but if Don Quixote's NP can work, so can Jacob's Ladder" SB are legit filled with fucking smooth brains...
Quixote's shit works compared to Technique Extinguisher because one actually works against Mystery as a whole while the other only works against Cursed Tools and otherwise. How does this need explaining? Why does it need explaining?

I don't think he ever actually uses it on a servant to see what that would even do to a noble phantasm, in fact, I think the only in story time he used it was to somehow escape the Atlantic Lostbelt after Herc got beamed. So, it's not like it has some super good feat that would make it better than the Angel's technique either.

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"Leaving a Lostbelt is not all that impressive than Technique Extinguisher"

In comparison, Angel just... turns things off and destroys techniques. She blew up the Prison Realm with one 'attack', she was fucking Sukuna up with only a few attacks (and I think she instantly dispersed Nue with the same attack), and as Yuta is showing now if Sukuna doesn't use Hollow Wicker Basket all of his techniques would also be a goner, and potentially the same thing that happened when he first possessed Megumi happens again and it does massive damage.

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Wow, she fucked up a Prison that is completely defenseless can be dealt with if you deal with the Cursed Energy keeping it operative? And attacked beings connected to Cursed Energy? Wow, what does any of that mean for affecting a Noble Phantasm?! Or a Servant at large?

It's also hyped as bypassing Infinity and basically everything since it just turns techniques off, but that's different from your point anyway.

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Anything in the Nasuverse. Can bypass. Infinity! We have seen this so many times where enough Magical Energy can easily distort Space itself and has done so many times even with the basic activation of a Noble Phantasm to a Mage going all in on a particularly strong spell or just being a murderhobo and being able to easily cut shit like Fate and other concepts casually.

If Angel used her technique on Archer while he's projecting, I see no reason why the weapons wouldn't get poofed immediately.

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Yeah, Angel can suddenly defeat Servants casually... proof? I don't need no fucking proof, Rule 13 somehow fixes all of that shit!

Balmung, it likely wouldn't go anywhere and would likely only disrupt the beam, but projections that explicitly poof after he's done with them? I can't see Angel's technique failing there, especially if its in the form of a sure hit. (Albeit, the direct attack version is probably magnitudes more potent.)

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....


Literally just contradicted himself in that post... if Technique Extinguisher by your fanfiction having selves can only work on Balmung's Beam(don't even ask me how considering even a half assed use of it shits on anything in JJK by leaps and bounds), why would it work on Archer's Projections? There is literally no through line here and it's obvious why he did it:
So he can easily defend himself if anyone calls him out on the obvious NLF he and Starsight keep setting up for this nothing move just so Yuta has a win condition.

EDIT: It's funny that everyone keeps bringing up that Yuta can somehow just null the rules because "Rule 13" logic... but no one brings up that like Iskandar, EMIYA can just teleport Yuta into his Reality Marble and move the location so he's not even in his Domain Expansion...
We already have precedent and that's not even counting EMIYA being able to destroy far stronger Bounded Fields casually, what advantage does Yuta have past literal wank, downplay and fanfiction?

More of Goji dumb downplay of ES

seth said:

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/fatalis-lore-accurate-monster-hunter-vs-alduin-lore-accurate-skyrim.1142446/page-5?post=98775151#post-98775151

More of Goji dumb downplay of ES

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Takes a look...

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/which-kamen-rider-can-defeat-ywhach-bleach.931463/. @Adamant soul

A very old thread, but interesting one nonetheless.

How to kill someone as Lucius without being eventually overtaken by his curse (emotionless being out of question as he did overtake a Necron that defeats him)

For the thread though, either Shiki kills him and overtaken by him or Lucius kill her. There is no win con for Shiki

Old Roa was completely killed and couldn't reincarnate when his point was destroyed

Lucius might get greater daemon scaling though, albeit it's noted he was weaker

Crimson Dragoon said:

Again, it’s also very easy to shit on Garou too as Chaos and I pointed out

Anyway, no one escapes the inconsistency problems, people shit on comics more because of the amount of writers (with some really liking their pet characters a tad too much) and decades of material. Kind of understandable, but then you have people like CoolCubed who doesn’t seem to be interested in any kind of honest debate and basically just acts like a youtuber trying to farm for attention with some “debunk video”.

Even with that whole oodles of writers and decades of material thing, there’s still a pretty broad general picture you can paint of Heralds/top end space heroes at their “best”

• Thor’s Mjolnir can bust planets as said decades ago and then is brought back up again several years later by Jason Aaron
• Gladiator punches a planet to pieces
• Gladiator has narrative hype about being able to crush a neutron star or something and then again with him being able to rip apart a black hole.
• Also survives containing an explosion that would’ve wasted half a solar system according to Reed
• Surfer destroys a planet and also a nearby moon with his clash against Morg, fights Red Shift in a black hole, then destroys a planet again in Annihilation just to prove a point
• Terrax busts a planet just after a chunk of his Power Cosmic got slurped up by Randau
• Ronan’s energy manipulation plus Quasar’s raw power stopping two stars from going nova and conjoined them in Annihilators, with guidance from Surfer’s cosmic awareness
• The Annihilators then rearrange the planets to adjust them to more suitable orbits
• Then it’s mentioned they have to deal with a sentient black hole

Mucking about with celestial bodies aren’t really treated as one-offs for guys on that tier. Yeah, you can go lower, pathetically lower even, but that applies to like 90% of super powered fiction. People who can wreck planets won’t do it all the time for one reason or another

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fake rubber planets

Sub balloon animal level skyfathers

Qinglong said:

Old Roa was completely killed and couldn't reincarnate when his point was destroyed

Lucius might get greater daemon scaling though, albeit it's noted he was weaker

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Yeah, Lucius' ressurection has Slaanesh' backing in addition to daemonic magic.

So imo that makes his ressurection more potent than Roa

Even slaanesh can't bring back destroyed souls (apparently)

but if he gets greater daemon scaling it's a moot point because he won't get in that situation in the first place

Who canonically is the fastest FF characters​

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Dissidia made Tidus Ex Mode a literal speed boost. So he's canonically the fastest character lol.

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Yuffie has got to be up there.
She zipped all over Wutai after you tried to track her down to get your materia back.

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Wouldn't that go to any teleporter like noctis.

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Zell. He runs around the world in seconds

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The ninja 5 from ff4 the after years

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Crimson Dragoon said:

Again, it’s also very easy to shit on Garou too as Chaos and I pointed out

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Yeah, you can drone on in a wall of text about Marvel and the nature of debating in this hobby

Doesn’t change the fact Garou depends on a collection of feats I can count on one hand, of which none are remotely of similar order of magnitude. Fa Jin is even more piss than Orochi wrenching energy/matter from the planet’s core and Psychorochi shaving off the top of the planet. Hell, the showings got progressively weaker. Orochi < Psychorochi < Monster Garou with Fa Jin being the underwhelming turd of a cherry on top of the pre-Cosmic power escalation.

Cosmic Garou doesn’t even have his own feats, he’s just Saitama’s punching bag that gets compared to him as a matter of course. Gamma Ray Burst may very well have the same intensity of one per unit area, but it ain’t comparable to a real one with how little matter it interacts with the excite the electrons of for measure. Punch s^2 is bullshit without the void. Both Garou and Saitama at their weakest, neither replicate it with several… how many uncountable attacks did they throw at each other on Io? Couldn’t pay me to take that planetary destruction statement without treating the void as something with any weight given stronger showings came up snake eyes.

I mean, I will because I’m not a pedant about CoE, but I’m not me in this post

That surface flip on Io isn’t worth discussing. It’s only better than Garou’s nuke fists because it tosses a continent worth of matter into the moon’s orbit.

Jupiter sneeze didn’t even touch Garou. He actively dodged it while he still let himself get clapped by Saitama’s hands. Begs the question that Saitama may not have been cutting loose at that point given Garou couldn’t handle a sneeze.

Nothing else done mattered. Every attack thrown is a feat. I count a fraction of a percent of things you can compare Garou to rather than the larger library of nothing most of the choreography offered.

And that’s not even talking speed. 2-3 feats of note period for that span. The only one possibly FTL is jumping away from Io as the sneeze shaved off Jupiter’s atmosphere.

El Hermano said:

@ChaosTheory123 I think I'm gonna have to see you for therapy after this fucking Adam(ROR) VS Luffy thread.

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Good thing it’s community mental health I guess then, pretty affordable

Masterblack06 said:

ay theres gotta be something in there that can be decent

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No

Best feat was sub-megatons

You need to be incredibly liberal with earthquake parameters to get megatons for Gojo’s feat upon getting out of that prison realm.

Cryso Agori said:

Psure the only thing standing up to Nasu is Comedian

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Would be hard pressed to see it cause notable injury

Blade said:

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I hereby give the Fat Chocobo prize for dumbest argument to the fool who said it was Tidus because he got a speed boost from his EX mode.

Vespa Crabro said:

fake rubber planets

Sub balloon animal level skyfathers

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A good match for roof level Saga

ChaosTheory123 said:

Yeah, you can drone on in a wall of text about Marvel and the nature of debating in this hobby

Doesn’t change the fact Garou depends on a collection of feats I can count on one hand, of which none are remotely of similar order of magnitude. Fa Jin is even more piss than Orochi wrenching energy/matter from the planet’s core and Psychorochi shaving off the top of the planet. Hell, the showings got progressively weaker. Orochi < Psychorochi < Monster Garou with Fa Jin being the underwhelming turd of a cherry on top of the pre-Cosmic power escalation.

Cosmic Garou doesn’t even have his own feats, he’s just Saitama’s punching bag that gets compared to him as a matter of course. Gamma Ray Burst may very well have the same intensity of one per unit area, but it ain’t comparable to a real one with how little matter it interacts with the excite the electrons of for measure. Punch s^2 is bullshit without the void. Both Garou and Saitama at their weakest, neither replicate it with several… how many uncountable attacks did they throw at each other on Io? Couldn’t pay me to take that planetary destruction statement without treating the void as something with any weight given stronger showings came up snake eyes.

I mean, I will because I’m not a pedant about CoE, but I’m not me in this post

That surface flip on Io isn’t worth discussing. It’s only better than Garou’s nuke fists because it tosses a continent worth of matter into the moon’s orbit.

Jupiter sneeze didn’t even touch Garou. He actively dodged it while he still let himself get clapped by Saitama’s hands. Begs the question that Saitama may not have been cutting loose at that point given Garou couldn’t handle a sneeze.

Nothing else done mattered. Every attack thrown is a feat. I count a fraction of a percent of things you can compare Garou to rather than the larger library of nothing most of the choreography offered.

And that’s not even talking speed. 2-3 feats of note period for that span. The only one possibly FTL is jumping away from Io as the sneeze shaved off Jupiter’s atmosphere.

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Makes that Gogeta vs Garou thread even sillier

Both DBZ and OPM suffer the same issues with feats, but Gogeta still scales to better feats and not only that, there’s just more planetary destruction because of DBZ’s sheer quantity

Dude is just fucked all around

It's funny, I didn't find VSB's last tier revamp too bad because it boosts Transformers a ton but their current one for their Tier 0 is just basically looking like Omnipotence arguments with more steps and legwork involved. Hobby has come full circle back to 2009

@Xhominid The Apex did we fought Kiara when she was Juvenile Beast?

Salfarc said:

we fought Kiara when she was Juvenile Beast?

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Yes.

Salfarc said:

@Xhominid The Apex did we fought Kiara when she was Juvenile Beast?

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As Type-Rey stated, yes, we fought Kiara as a Juvenile Beast as if she completed her plan, she would become a full scale Beast like Kama would be if she completed her plan. The only other Beast that has become a full blown Beast after Tiamat and Goetia is Draco and potentially if the Foreign World CHALDEAS is able to fully take control of U-Olga Marie in earnest.