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Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 5: Diamonds are fleeting. Stupid lasts forever

Another one
"Gudao survives because he make connection to Servants so they want to save his ass at first, then by using Shadow Servants."

Literally Rin helps Shirou out because she has feeling for him and saves his life and he bonds with Saber (albeit how much depends on your choices in the game).

So this is glazing of FGO protagonist to absurd degree and double standard. The same thing could be said about FGO protagonist X100 given how many times he was saved because some servant took pitty to him (salome in Traum for example), found him to his/her linking with little interactions (quetzalcoatl), aided him out of nowhere (Charlotte, Sitonai and Napoleon) , or were just pawn in their plan (Merlin). And those are just drop in a tiny sea of plot contrivances that saved protagonist from dying when they were about to die such as black barrel (they die without it on multiple occasions such probably Zeus and other Olympian gods) or Nano-machines to name just a two among many.

It's easier to fight a servant when you have servants summoned by the land aiding you, tons of plot devices including divine spirits, Chaldea resolve supplement energy, and so on, and find yourself in an environment equivalent to the amount of energy of the age of god or greater and even capsules that replenish energy, are given mystic codes by Chalde and so on. If Shirou, a poor magus, struggles, then the protagonist of FGO, who has awful circuits to the point he significantly weakens his own servants, the protagonist of FGO, will be struggling too without Chaldea or other circumstances resolving the energy issue equally likely even worse due to such awful circuits. Remove Chaldea from equation, divine spirits, mystic codes, ampules and anything affiliated with Chaldea and FGO protagonist chances of surviving plummet in fifth holy grail severely.
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Yet another one from another person
Ritsuka doesn’t have any inherent powers and his stats are absolutely abysmal. It’s literally canon that he’s Waver level which is well below average for a mage. Meanwhile Shirou is a servant level fighter who can beat Gilgamesh in close quarters before even scratching his ceiling. Ritsuka isn’t remotely strong by himself, much less comparable to one of the only modern day mages that can box with servants. Ritsuka doesn’t have anything inherently unique about him and it’s literally a plot point that his plot armor comes from him being an average joe without any strengths.
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And yet another one from yet another person

Gudao won them is the same as shirou winning the HGW. Not once both them soloed anything which you keep claiming. Its wank because you're overplaying how strong shadow servants are when canon lore stated they are weaker than actual servants. You mentioned Traum and you're arguing Guda will solo FSN when they never soloed Traum? Your argument makes no sense. Your arguments that guda soloes anything just using shadow servants is nonsensical. "Grand servant" tez cant even beat a weak olga marie."Grand servant" tez isnt gonna solo anyone in fsn. Delusional
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One extra for @Xhominid The Apex

Tell me you at least read HA to know Shirou can even get along with Gilgamesh and Medea in the right conditions. You saying that piece of cardboard you love just works in FGO assuming Shirou would be in his position nothing changes because Ritsuka "charisma" is just the self-insert "guy for the job thing" Yeah the same applies with Hakuno because the game would end the moment the servant say F you to the master.
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CrossTheHorizon said:
"Ritsuka is toast once they go up against a powerful Master-Servant combination"







The delusion is strong with this one
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Honestly what's insane here is that it's like people live in their own delusional bubbles because let's actually go over every Crypter's Servant:

Kadoc: Lostbelt Anastasia. A version of Anastasia so corrupted and yet so boosted from being created from the Lostbelt's history that she can literally lead Kadoc into completing Part 1 on her own. Ritsuka defeated her with Servants not even on her level as support(Billy The Kid and Beowulf but primarily the former) and Mash and Shadow Servants.

Ophelia: Sigurd. While you can say that her Sigurd was being stupid on account of Surtr, Sigurd still destroyed the shit out of Mash and Ritsuka without help from Ophelia at all and they was only able to get further at all with help from Napoleon and Brynhildr(Which are still under them so doesn't matter)

Akuta Hinako/Yu Meiren: Xiang Yu. Now this is just a no contest, she may be a shitty Master but it doesn't fucking matter when she's a fucking Xian and even holding back to an extent is still utterly ludicrous alongside her Dragon-tier Husband and we still won, this time especially due to Chaldea-summoned Nehza.

Pepe/Ashwatthaman: Karna/Arjuna level Servant, maybe even stronger than them, no comment.

Kirschtaria Wodime: Caenis. A man who kicked Lostbelt Zeus' ass and a person that basically became the 2nd coming of Poseidon and then literally fully went all the way just to prove that they are worthy to be Wodime's Servant. Don't wanna hear shit.

Beryl: Okay we never actually fought Morgan Le Fay Ruler but we did have to deal with his ass as a weakened as hell Woodwose(which is still a threat) while tired off of our asses from fighting Barghest

Daybit: Grand Servant Tezcatlipoca. Man, after all of the bullshit Lostbelt 7 gave us about the both of them, I don't EVER want to hear shit about Ritsuka "getting lucky". Daybit with a help of a Command Spell tied with a fucking BEAST, Camazotz later implied that Tezcatlipoca is on equal ground as long as he's not in one of the Underworlds under Camazotz' control, we kicked their asses and dealt with his "Angels" 3 goddamned times over(We fought Daybit and his "Angels" first, then Tezcatlipoca and killed him and then fought them in the afterlife)

Like Daybit even fucking bitches and had a feeling he would lose despite Ritsuka literally having only access to Shadow Servants, what is this insanity? Like guaranteed ask someone who believes Shirou can kill Yu Meiren and I can guarantee all they will say is "lolHarpe" without answering the obvious question of how will they defeat a Xian who can basically explode and cause insanely destructive weather effects that can ruin even a Servant's day constantly?
 
Salfarc said:
Another one

Yet another one from another person

And yet another one from yet another person


One extra for @Xhominid The Apex
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The irony of that last one makes me laugh... because even in HA, Shirou never got along with Gilgamesh... not once. That's not something said for the fun of it, it's literally never stated period that Gilgamesh "gets along with Shirou". Shirou tolerates the shit out of Gilgamesh and with the barest of minimums possible. Shirou can't even tolerate Cu despite Cu not even having that much beef with him and Shirou only tolerates Medea because she stopped being evil and let's not even get into EMIYA.

Really tells you these people never actually watched or read what they preached, not once. Guaranteed their only look at Shiki Tohno from the OG is from Carnival Phantasm...
 
Xhominid The Apex said:
Daybit: Grand Servant Tezcatlipoca. Man, after all of the bullshit Lostbelt 7 gave us about the both of them, I don't EVER want to hear shit about Ritsuka "getting lucky". Daybit with a help of a Command Spell tied with a fucking BEAST, Camazotz later implied that Tezcatlipoca is on equal ground as long as he's not in one of the Underworlds under Camazotz' control, we kicked their asses and dealt with his "Angels" 3 goddamned times over(We fought Daybit and his "Angels" first, then Tezcatlipoca and killed him and then fought them in the afterlife)

Like Daybit even fucking bitches and had a feeling he would lose despite Ritsuka literally having only access to Shadow Servants, what is this insanity? Like guaranteed ask someone who believes Shirou can kill Yu Meiren and I can guarantee all they will say is "lolHarpe" without answering the obvious question of how will they defeat a Xian who can basically explode and cause insanely destructive weather effects that can ruin even a Servant's day constantly?
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What do you say if he reply to you with this

"All of his servants against Tez are shadow servants. He literally doesn't and can't bring anyone else. As its in Tez's dominion and Tez only summon him."

The protagonist is confirmed to be able to summon servants in combat within and outside of the underworld in the South American Lostbelt. Whether you argue those were shadow or not is irrelevant, as he could still summon them if they are normal servants that he can summon. That's an even worse nail in the coffin to your argumentation since he failed to defeat Tezcatlipoca with actual servants, even if you claim that normal servants are stronger than shadow servants. Somehow, the protagonist failed to defeat weaker Tezcatlipoca with stronger servants + the aid of Mash and allies and yet defeated Tezcatlipoca, who is even stronger (even his feats and lack of displayed compared to his prior instances show otherwise), with weaker versions of servants and without the aid of Mash and allies? Even if you claim that those were shadow servants, it now refutes your arguments that he couldn't summon shadow servants due to not having master rights, and it defeats your argument since this was the basis of your conclusion that the protagonist lost in chapter 19 (without U-Olga Marie) and yet won in the final fight against supposedly stronger same opponent was on verge of losing against to not long ago (to the point of being unable to harm them) because he couldn't summon shadow servants during chapter 19

Daybit even complains about Tezcatlipoca not chain summoning during a fight and having to fight just with him when the protagonist had multiple servants

Tezcatlipoca has reason as to why he held back; the reason why he was holding back was to test both masters as masters and determine which was the superior master. Thus, Daybit was taking the role of Tezcatlipoca master in this combat, rather than Tezcatlipoca fighting independent combatants utilizing his abilities (it was not once again to show his superior servant to any servant protagonist throws at him or if he can personally beat the protagonist, but if Daybit can prove himself as master by utilizing him sufficiently/efficiently to defeat the protagonist and prove his superiority as a master and hence he didn't use his causal manipulation ability to effectively avoid any damage something protagonist couldn't bypass even with ability to summon servants in combat). It was dual designated to test how well each of them can command servants, utilize their abilities, strengths, etc. (something that was not Daybit's strength, to put it mildly). And no, Tezcatlipoca only rudimentarily supports Daybit out of boredom and even acts against Daybit's goal on his whim, such as when resurrecting the protagonist first and offering a chance to resurrect him a second time over Daybit, while he could just resurrect Daybit and let the protagonist die if he actually were willing to hand out Daybit's win at the end of the day. However, at the end of the day, Tezcatlipoca has a sense of fair play and a spirit of competition that overrides his whim to destroy the world out of boredom, as shown by the fact that he proposes to resurrect the protagonist instead of Daybit and does so if Daybit loses the fight.

This is the protagonist's win against Daybit as a master who was trying to utilize Tezcatlipoca as a servant, which he had no sufficient ability to do effectively/efficiently given factors like a lack of experience as a master or even commander (loner type at the top of it), stunted learning due to the ability to recall only 5 minutes of each day, much of which he dedicated to trying to stop Chaldeas's plan and awakening ort instead of learning how to become a master and other disadvantages (self-imposed and not) he had.
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Salfarc said:
What do you say if he reply to you with this
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The protagonist is confirmed to be able to summon servants in combat within and outside of the underworld in the South American Lostbelt. Whether you argue those were shadow or not is irrelevant, as he could still summon them if they are normal servants that he can summon. That's an even worse nail in the coffin to your argumentation since he failed to defeat Tezcatlipoca with actual servants, even if you claim that normal servants are stronger than shadow servants. Somehow, the protagonist failed to defeat weaker Tezcatlipoca with stronger servants + the aid of Mash and allies and yet defeated Tezcatlipoca, who is even stronger (even his feats and lack of displayed compared to his prior instances show otherwise), with weaker versions of servants and without the aid of Mash and allies? Even if you claim that those were shadow servants, it now refutes your arguments that he couldn't summon shadow servants due to not having master rights, and it defeats your argument since this was the basis of your conclusion that the protagonist lost in chapter 19 (without U-Olga Marie) and yet won in the final fight against supposedly stronger same opponent was on verge of losing against to not long ago (to the point of being unable to harm them) because he couldn't summon shadow servants during chapter 19.
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...I literally read no more than just this before my brain fucking exploded and I basically fell into a mini-coma...
Does he mean that we failed to defeat Tezcatlipoca when he adopted the powers of Red Tezcatlipoca to augment himself?! ...Does... does he know that the main reason we had issues was due to his literal bullshit Authority over Smoke which literally allowed him to go "Did you really kill me now? Nah, you didn't" levels of Probability Manipulation. When U-Olga was able to get rid of that without requiring a strong as shit Black Barrel blast that would bring down the entire cavern, we ultimately did defeat him no problem.
And when was the Tezcatlipoca we faced in the Underworld any stronger?! We literally fought him as a Grand Servant, people need to stop acting as if that was forgotten when Lostbelt 4 was explicitly brought up when Nitocris got destroyed by Tlaloc, there is no weaker Tezcatlipoca in comparison to him at his full Chief Deity-tier Divine Spirit self in the Underworld(We know that because Daybit even mentions he was going to head into Quetzalcoatl's Domain to punish Tezcatlipoca as a joke).

Everything stated here just shows people cannot read and refuses to read even the most basic shit. It reminds me that people just so happened to "forget" that the Faerie Knights dead ass state Ritsuka's Shadow Summoning skills make them on par with the Tam Lin and Barghest explicitly asks for Ritsuka to fight her head on with no support and you WIN and nothing shows it was struggle fest at all. Can't give Ritsuka nothing, gotta pretend Shirou can solo because "He can do it too!".
 
Xhominid The Apex said:
...I literally read no more than just this before my brain fucking exploded and I basically fell into a mini-coma...
Does he mean that we failed to defeat Tezcatlipoca when he adopted the powers of Red Tezcatlipoca to augment himself?! ...Does... does he know that the main reason we had issues was due to his literal bullshit Authority over Smoke which literally allowed him to go "Did you really kill me now? Nah, you didn't" levels of Probability Manipulation. When U-Olga was able to get rid of that without requiring a strong as shit Black Barrel blast that would bring down the entire cavern, we ultimately did defeat him no problem.
And when was the Tezcatlipoca we faced in the Underworld any stronger?! We literally fought him as a Grand Servant, people need to stop acting as if that was forgotten when Lostbelt 4 was explicitly brought up when Nitocris got destroyed by Tlaloc, there is no weaker Tezcatlipoca in comparison to him at his full Chief Deity-tier Divine Spirit self in the Underworld(We know that because Daybit even mentions he was going to head into Quetzalcoatl's Domain to punish Tezcatlipoca as a joke).

Everything stated here just shows people cannot read and refuses to read even the most basic shit. It reminds me that people just so happened to "forget" that the Faerie Knights dead ass state Ritsuka's Shadow Summoning skills make them on par with the Tam Lin and Barghest explicitly asks for Ritsuka to fight her head on with no support and you WIN and nothing shows it was struggle fest at all. Can't give Ritsuka nothing, gotta pretend Shirou can solo because "He can do it too!".
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I was hoping to see how you react to this part especially:

Tezcatlipoca has reason as to why he held back; the reason why he was holding back was to test both masters as masters and determine which was the superior master. Thus, Daybit was taking the role of Tezcatlipoca master in this combat, rather than Tezcatlipoca fighting independent combatants utilizing his abilities (it was not once again to show his superior servant to any servant protagonist throws at him or if he can personally beat the protagonist, but if Daybit can prove himself as master by utilizing him sufficiently/efficiently to defeat the protagonist and prove his superiority as a master and hence he didn't use his causal manipulation ability to effectively avoid any damage something protagonist couldn't bypass even with ability to summon servants in combat). It was dual designated to test how well each of them can command servants, utilize their abilities, strengths, etc. (something that was not Daybit's strength, to put it mildly). And no, Tezcatlipoca only rudimentarily supports Daybit out of boredom and even acts against Daybit's goal on his whim, such as when resurrecting the protagonist first and offering a chance to resurrect him a second time over Daybit, while he could just resurrect Daybit and let the protagonist die if he actually were willing to hand out Daybit's win at the end of the day. However, at the end of the day, Tezcatlipoca has a sense of fair play and a spirit of competition that overrides his whim to destroy the world out of boredom, as shown by the fact that he proposes to resurrect the protagonist instead of Daybit and does so if Daybit loses the fight.
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Salfarc said:
I was hoping to see how you react to this part especially:
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I mean it's stupid either way, why would Tezcatlipoca hold back... when he's Daybit's Servant, Daybit explicitly wants a true Master vs. Master battle and Tezcatlipoca giving Daybit a literal chance at a do-over of his plan?!
Tezcatlipoca even stated that he's fond of Daybit and his plan and rather hoped he succeeded to the point despite being "The Enemy of Both Sides", he favored Daybit more than anyone else. Nothing at all about this makes any sense and it's just more fanon.

EDIT: It's even dumber because he took Daybit's ragging literally when it was just Daybit being a Sore Loser for like a sentence and then basically going through the trials till he can be reborn again.
 

Dual Shikai Ichigo vs Bankai Yamamoto

No HoS or Bankai for Ichigo Yamamoto has both arms No knowledge Killing intent Distance is 100 meters
www.fanverse.org www.fanverse.org
WorldsStrongest said:
Yamamoto absolutely gapes his ass
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Guy who was already weaker than Base Moustache...grapes the guy who made base Moustache look like a joke.:jordangif
WorldsStrongest said:
People need to fucking chill with their anime content revisions in this fandom.

This Ichigo still had genuine issues getting past fucking base sternritters.
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What fucking trouble?

Dude was tunnel-visioned on Moustache and still no-sold Meninas' punch (Robert literally says it did NOTHING) and dodges a shot from Robert point-blank.

Where was he having issues? WHERE?
WorldsStrongest said:
He also still got turned into a carpet by Base Askin.
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Yeah and if Yamamoto sand-bagged that hard, he'd have been turned into a carpet in even less time than Ichigo was, since he wouldn't be "immune" to it at first.
WorldsStrongest said:
Shikai Ichigo is blatantly not that guy
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Tell that to Base Moustache and Uryu who both got embarrassed when he wasn't playing around.
 
Cryso Agori said:
large planet level.
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I thought they're both currently star to multi-star/potentially galaxy level at peak based on their fight involving a Gamma Ray Burst and Saitama's Serious Punch tearing a huge vacuum in space with all the stars in his attack's radius destroyed:

1741458814162.png

and what about the galaxies being depicted clearly in space in this other panel?

1741458986954.png
 
Regular-Nothing Eric said:
I thought they're both currently star to multi-star/potentially galaxy level at peak based on their fight involving a Gamma Ray Burst and Saitama's Serious Punch tearing a huge vacuum in space with all the stars in his attack's radius destroyed:

View attachment 3935

and what about the galaxies being depicted clearly in space in this other panel?

View attachment 3936
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The "hole in space" is a result of SP squared, not an individual feat, and involved Blast bottling all their energy up and shooting it away

It also only produced enough energy to fling them to Jupiter so tbh that "hole" is probably like broken space or something since otherwise Jupiter shouldn't still be there.

Garou, later into the fight and much stronger than he was at the start, has to panic dodge an attack that doesn't even actually destroy Jupiter.
 
Regular-Nothing Eric said:
based on their fight involving a Gamma Ray Burst
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I mean, a Gamma Ray Burst by itself means nothing. It's the most energetic phenomenon in the universe simply because of the sheer magnitude of mass expelled and the forces involved- in simpler words, an artificial GRB would not be as strong as a natural one if it was not as large as a natural one. It's like comparing a nuke to the sun just because both work on the same principle

The GRB in One Punch Man was smaller than a planet, it took place in one. There's no reason to think the energies involved come anywhere close to a real one, especially when the manga goes out of the way to say it follows the same physics as a real one. Someone calculated the feat in VSB, and it comes at large planet level.
Regular-Nothing Eric said:
Saitama's Serious Punch
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It was Serius Punch Squared, as the name implies- the forces here are being squared and it's not something either one of them can do alone without resonance. Even a moon level attack becomes multi-star level when its magnitude is squared. Plus, Garou losing his shit over Saitama sneezing away Jupiter contradicts them being star level.

That being said, Blast and Empty Void can also solo Invincible as far as I know, so it's not just Saitama and Garou alone who can survive. Then there's God, of course.
 
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Darth Zion said:
I mean, a Gamma Ray Burst by itself means nothing. It's the most energetic phenomenon in the universe simply because of the sheer magnitude of mass expelled and the forces involved- in simpler words, an artificial GRB would not be as strong as a natural one if it was not as large as a natural one. It's like comparing a nuke to the sun just because both work on the same principle

The GRB in One Punch Man was smaller than a planet, it took place in one. There's no reason to think the energies involved come anywhere close to a real one, especially when the manga goes out of the way to say it follows the same physics as a real one. Someone calculated the feat in VSB, and it comes at large planet level.
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Pretty much this. You need to have some actual proof and/or standing to state that a non-natural GRB must be as strong as an actual GRB. The easiest example I can point to(and the most obvious)... is Lostbelt ORT who actually has basis that it's Cosmic Ray Burst is basically a legit Gamma Ray Burst due to how much energy ORT is stated to have through another source(It at bare minimum puts out more energy than Goetia's Human Incineration Plan which is enough to equal a galaxy in overall energy), the fact that LB ORT eating a Tree of Emptiness which basically creates all of the conditions of a Galaxy... and it wasn't even close to act as a functional equal to it's heart and it can casually go straight in trillions of degrees with no actual issues despite not having it's heart.

Adamant soul said:

Dual Shikai Ichigo vs Bankai Yamamoto

No HoS or Bankai for Ichigo Yamamoto has both arms No knowledge Killing intent Distance is 100 meters
www.fanverse.org www.fanverse.org

Guy who was already weaker than Base Moustache...grapes the guy who made base Moustache look like a joke.:jordangif

What fucking trouble?

Dude was tunnel-visioned on Moustache and still no-sold Meninas' punch (Robert literally says it did NOTHING) and dodges a shot from Robert point-blank.

Where was he having issues? WHERE?

Yeah and if Yamamoto sand-bagged that hard, he'd have been turned into a carpet in even less time than Ichigo was, since he wouldn't be "immune" to it at first.

Tell that to Base Moustache and Uryu who both got embarrassed when he wasn't playing around.
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This whole thing is just peak delusion at this point to just not give Ichigo the kudos he deserves and it's honestly just becoming pathetic. The excuses of why he told Candice to dodge when it clean vaporized her arm, how it's obvious as shit Ichigo held back on Uryu and then dominated him when it came to Round 2, him utterly destroying Yhwach in their 2nd fight until he used The Almighty and it wasn't like he was overwhelming Ichigo completely there either and so on and so forth.

Yamamoto had to go all in for 70% of Yhwach's overall strength, Ichigo is yet at full power in his SHIKAI form, get the fuck out of here.

EDIT: Like the fact that they are STILL playing the "Askin carpets Ichigo" despite the anime explicitly adding in that Askin had to try harder as Ichigo was immune to it due to his Iruzanshou training is some of the biggest cope ever, especially when they think act as if Yourichi being stated as a "monster" for not instantly keeling over from a Gift Ball Special when Ichigo wasn't even out of it once the Gift Pool ceased speaks volumes despite his REISHI BEING POISONED.
 
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