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Quite a few town contributed to the win and could have been awarded. It was well played game.

no you didn't, it was still my fault for improper communication. just was confused because when i went to look at how it all went down it didn't go down like i was being told it went down. again my apologies for making you feel like you had to get approval for posting or anything of that sort. i dont want anyone to feel that way, i just prefer them posting in general.

it was not. there is a general ramp up and again it's lack of communication on my part in not detailing exactly what you needed to do but it is still similar to what i said earlier. you express doubt, they reaffirm, you say that doesn't seem like it would be the case as you have a similar role and you express natural doubt etc. it's a ramp up process as it would ramp up if you were town(well it varies depending on the player you are). still dont blame you, but i was wondering how what happened happened as i was very involved overall so i didnt understand how i left you hanging so hard but basically i didn't expect the cc to happen there.

alco the guy that shot at us 3 times and wanted to shoot ultra again the night i convinced him to shoot psychic and likely would have shoot at ultra again the following night phase if he lived or even day killed ultra given the chance during the day? i dont think that risk was worthwhile.

i think it only applies to tracking/watching roles.

we got rid of the cop, vig, watcher, prevented a heal, bypassed your protection on cp without killing you and without having to roleblock you. some of what youre suggesting youre failing to see the in thread consequences of. poyser/cp aren't idiots and both were alive for a good part and it wasn't due to avoiding killing high active players, it's because the power roles/investigation roles needed to be dealt with. on top of that town had a very pro-town SK that shot us 3 times and killed a mislynch target on night 1.

because it would have confirmed the tracker/watcher as well which both looked scummy and potential mislynches and evans did get mislynched.

ya again im not sure if i made them feel this way or how i made them feel this way, but they didn't need to run it past me(or ultra). i legitimately just wanted them to post for the most part.

i was told i coached her into counter claiming and i took it for face value and then i read the scum qt and i was lied to and didn't suggest doing what she did. >:(

while we wouldn't have more claimable roles, it's one less role to worry about. the night flower got caught we had a 3-shot watcher, 3 shot tracker, and non-consecutive jailkeeper in play. even with a 2-shot busdriver and roleblocker it means we can't ever all grounds there. you said going for the cop doomed us when in reality we need to remove him at some point anyway and that was the best time to do it. again i think it mostly comes down to the janitor not landing as that in itself helps cause doubt.

let me break this down as: ^this is what i said in the scum qt at 2:47pm. which led to: this at 4:28pm which has made me realize i was gaslit as i didn't actually tell hime to do any of this. i wasn't clear, but i said "express doubt" and she in with demanding a claim/counter claiming. i just thought it was my idea as hime said it was. @hime did i tell you to do this before in the chat because you said this was my idea and i just believed you. >:(

im not really falling but i dont see why you dont think town can make an error in thinking someone's claiming their role and then to counterclaim? if done correctly that comes across fine. it's similar to how evans claimed and should have cleared him, but we view things differently in general i feel(from a town point of view) is what it boils down to.

the way it went down was my bad as i didn't explain to her how to do it and put her in a position she didn't want to be nor had experience handling.

seraph knight claim came as a result of her bringing up her role. we thought he might be the jailkeeper.

we can really fake host communication with all our VT claims! outside game thread content shouldn't be used as gamesmanship. it's the same reason we looked down heavily on people confirming themselves back in the day for not having town alignments in the host PM. it falls under sportsmenship too.

he was speculated on having a watcher role until he said he was a protective role and as you said watcher isn't a protective role! it made sense in line with that. sorry i didn't anticipate the jailkeeper miller. it wasn't the fact there was a third protection role as much as it was your role having the third protection role making it impossible to dirty. again if i prepped her properly(and i had said earlier in the scum qt) the scum team are unlikely to have both busdriver and bg). it was also in anticipation of the mass claim i saw coming literally the phase after with so much of the power roles already outing themselves(which happened) and it would have been brought up there anyway. keep in mind the SK and mafia outside of her felt the need to claim VT and it's because the already overwhelming presence of roles in the game by everyone else.

fight me. the post she counter claimed was saying he was a protection role with the idea being that the protection role would be thought of as bg(obviously it wouldn't be) which makes sense from a town POV if you think someone is claiming your role. i didn't prep her on how to actually handle the CC or go about it from there and that's my bad, but the play itself is easily executable given prep/experience.

^and for reference it definitely did make an impact on the game and reads. this is lylo, that isn't kosher.

@Ultra but they told us we were dumb to have flower do the kill due to the hindsight bias of her being caught despite this being the exact fear lol. in regards to the mod kills and the retirement stuff i agree. in regards to lack of modkills i dont believe any should have happened this game but i hate them out of principle. for future games i stand by not allowing players from using mod communication and stating in thread. that is out of game content that shouldn't be brought into the game. not using host communication was a rule in the past(might even be a rule in this game) and there was a lot of that in my final phase and it did influence the gam.

We knew you were the vig and would be confirmed upon claiming