I can't really argue in favour of Nanoha since I haven't read/seen all the Nanoha stuff. I will however argue against this weirdass conclusion that Fate is somehow light speed. In my opinion, you're basing all of this on a translation of FGO from that one fight against Dioscuri. Not only is it questionable considering it could be a liberal translation (could you bring up the Japanese text for this btw?) but it would be such a massive goddamn outlier compared to the rest of canon that it just doesn't make sense. To argue this, I will be limiting myself to works written directly by Kinoko Nasu (as opposed to things like FGO descriptions/scenes and the manga adaptations). This is because Fate has dozens of writers whom contradict each other. It makes sense then to take the main and original writer as the highest source of canon and others as as secondary (as per OBD rules).
Some arguments:
The parameter system: The
parameter stats representing stats in Fate has been set in stone since the original VN. All works based on Fate follow this system, even FGO. The rules for this system were explained on
page 70 in Fate/Side Materials, the guide which shipped with the first edition of the game which contains a trove of lore and explanation left out of the VN. It compares servant stat parameters to normal humans. It's very clear on how it scales. If a normal human's stat is a 1, a servant at F rank for that stat is a 10. So a servant with an F rank in strength has the strength of 10 people. Considering an average human easily lift over 100kg, an F rank strength servant could lift a ton. A rank is 50 times a normal human. Plusses mean it can temporally be boosted beyond their normal limit (like how A++ can go from base 50 to 200 when boosted). EX is then meant to be immeasurable. An example would be Enuma Elish which obviously can't be quantified. More info
here.
For the sake of argument, let's grab the strongest version of Saber in canon, which is Kiritsugu's Saber. You can compare all summoning instances of Saber
here. Notice how Kiritsugu's saber is well beyond Moon Cell Saber, Rin's Saber and Fujimaru's saber in stats. Her stats with quantifications are as follows:
- Strength: A. 50 times a normal human aka she can casually lift about 5 tonnes.
- Endurance: A. 50 times a normal human aka she can sprint for 400 seconds (vs the 8 of a normal person) or six minutes.
- Agility: A. 50 times a normal human. This is the one we want. This denotes speed. Every speedy servant has a high agility stat. Let's, for the sake of argument, grab the world record sprint of Usain Bolt at a rounded 45 km/h. This gives Saber a sprinting speed of 2250 km/h or 650m/s. This puts Saber at comfortably supersonic (over 343m/s) and still perceivable by the human eye.
- Agility: A. 50 times a normal human. This is hard to quantify admittedly since what the fuck is a normal human's mana capacity?
- Luck: D. 20 times a normal human. Saber has 20x more chance of winning a lottery compared to you plebs.
- NP: A++. Note: NP ranks are mostly used to compare NP's since obviously, humans don't have NP's.
So the official stats gives a pretty clear ballpark for the upper and lower limits of servants. Even at the highest possible value we can quantify (barring EX), a servant at A++ can be 200x a human for a while. Officially, the fastest servant btw is Richard I (True Saber) from Strange Fake due to his ability
Godspeed. This increases his speed the longer the fight lasts, therefore being the only servant with EX rank Agility. Dioscuri btw has B rank in agility based on their parameters in Fate Apocrypha and FGO so is canonically not even as fast as Arthoria and Medusa in the Fuyuki Holy Grail War. Just to denote why the thing you linked yesterday is obviously either a mistake or an outlier.
The actual visual novel: I can debunk this entire thing with literally the first fight in the franchise. Cu Chulainn vs EMIYA at the school during the prologue.
Entire scene is told from Rin's point of view. Rin never mentions using magic to augment her sight. In fact, EMIYA tells her not to interfere since he has something to prove to her. She is completely able to follow a fight between EMIYA and Cu Chulainn. Note that Cu has an agility of A and EMIYA C. Considering Cu was obviously holding back most of the fight, we can assume he was lowering his speed to match EMIYA's C. The fight would be at about 375m/s which would be barely supersonic. Rin (and most humans) would be able to follow this fight. This follows their later rematch where Medea's vast mana supplies augmented his stats to the point where Cu had to fight him seriously.
She is not only able to follow the fight, but can hear Cu speaking and perceives increases in his thrusting speed. This implies she can accurately guage shifts in the combat speed, which would obviously be impossible if they were moving at speeds faster than the human eye can see (1000m/s for a bullet-sized object, obviously WAY higher for human-sized objects).
Moreover, the sounds of their fight can be heard clearly. This implies they are not making sonic boom with their movements. As EMIYA is only barely supersonic at max according to his stats and Cu was fighting carefully in order to sus out EMIYA, it makes sense that for most of the fight, they would not be moving at that speed.
I have to remind you that is a scene from the VN, which is the highest form of canon. It supercedes a manga based on a gacha based on the VN by several orders.
I don't see how you can refute this as both sources are directly from Nasu's hand while writing the original canon. You would have to find feats in the original VN to do that and those don't exist.
