Caine(World of Darkness) vs Dragon Ball Super(Anime)

Derpmaster9000

Balor Béimnech
V.I.P. Member
Yep, we're doing this. Caine, the first vampire from WOD is running the DBS gauntlet. Does the son of Adam and the only vampire slated to survive the vampiric apocalypse manage to clear? If not, how far does he get, before being stopped in his tracks?

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VS.

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Paxton

One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds
V.I.P. Member
Doesn't this guy have a super strong damage reflection curse or is that someone else I'm thinking of? :rock
 

seth

Preeminent
solos. Level 10 vampire powers are op. They won`t even be able to sense him with obsucate level 10. Caine can just mind hax them dragon ball has poor mind hax resistance
 

Sigismund

Moderator
Moderator
Doesn't this guy have a super strong damage reflection curse or is that someone else I'm thinking of? :rock
He has the Curse of Cain, where any damage that He takes is reflected 7 fold to the person who inflicted it.

Its the main reason Lilith hasnt directly confronted him, and doesnt until she gathers enough Antideuvllians to try and throw in Caine's way.
 

Sigismund

Moderator
Moderator
solos. Level 10 vampire powers are op. They won`t even be able to sense him with obsucate level 10. Caine can just mind hax them dragon ball has poor mind hax resistance
Level 10 is Antediluvian, he would have Rank 12 powers. According to the Book of Nod he would have at least :
Animalism, Auspex, Celerity, Dominate, Fortitude, Obfuscate, Potence, Presence, and the Path of Blood of Thaumatury/Dun Ankir Sorcery

If we believe some Clan Legends, he may also have Koldunic Sorcery (Way of Spirit) Chimerstry and Obtenebration. Presumably, he would also be able to learn any other discipline fairly easily.
 

Flowering Knight

Exceptional
V.I.P. Member
Honestly Curse of Caine is a broken enough ability that he could probably solo a shitton of verses with it alone

He makes it up to Zeno IMO, don't think it applies to other hax like existence erasure
 

Sigismund

Moderator
Moderator
Honestly Curse of Caine is a broken enough ability that he could probably solo a shitton of verses with it alone

He makes it up to Zeno IMO, don't think it applies to other hax like existence erasure
It does

Lillth confirms that, Magic/Hax/reality warping doesnt bypass the Curse of Caine, as thats backed up by first, the wraith of Abel and by God's confirmation
 
Just for reference fifth-tier mages can change entire timelines, become immune, and exist outside of time.
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They can create a pocket dimension devoid of life, death, time, space, dimension, etc. It describes it as endless. They can impact the concept of time and space that informs the ultimate ensemble multiverse.
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Mages can travel in the Void which is outside time and space.
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Third-tier and above Mages harness the subtle power of the Earth's ley lines. Basically, the Quintessence is the source of mana, life, chi, and all forms of energy in
existence.
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The Mages are a bunch of geniuses able to create Platonic machines, weapons that can destroy beings in every dimension, and machines that defy the laws. They basically created the Platonic concept of Quantum Theory.
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Archmages have knowledge of all things in the past, present, and future in the Tellurian. Tellurian is the whole reality.
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Vampire’s Disciplines can do the same or similar effects as Mage’s Magic. Lilith is considered the first Mage and taught Caine how to harness and use his Blood.
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Lilith has precognition and awareness of things supernatural. Has great insight that any attempt to disrupt her senses that aren’t an Antediluvian will automatically fail. Has the ability to grow plants at an alarmingly fast rate, the ability to steal newborn children or cause miscarriages or stillbirths in women. Has the power overnight, she can direct the darkness and harness the power of the stars and the moon. Has mastery over the endless water, can spawn sea creatures, and has control over the unconscious realms of the mind.
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Caine has every single Discipline of all vampires. For anyone that is interested of the abilities here is the thread.

Caine’s abilities.
  • Can fly.
  • Reality warping.
  • Precognition/clairvoyance.
  • Reactive evolution.
  • Telepathy.
  • Telekinesis.
  • Can transmute and petrify beings.
  • Can inflict a curse where if he is dealt damage would be reflected back seven times fold, and if he were to die, the killer would die seven times a more painful death.
  • Can harm conceptual beings.
  • Can travel through dimensions.
  • Regeneration seems like he can come back even if erased.
  • Has an abstract form.
  • Can grow stronger from others' pain, suffering, and hatred.
  • Dimensional BFR.
  • Teleportation.
  • Possession.
  • Necromancy.
  • Astral projection.
  • Shapeshift and change his size.
  • Can resurrect.
  • Can duplicate himself.
  • Can create pocket dimensions.
  • Negate regeneration.
  • Can amp and reduce superhuman abilities.
  • Can generate forcefields.
  • Can manipulate life and death, fate/probability, hyper-narrative, minds, the elements, gravity, technology, space, time, sound, plants, souls, vectors, vibrations, radiation, matter, antimatter, blood, morality, species, laws of physics, data, viruses, diseases, dimensions, and all forms of energy.
  • Has resistance to all previously stated abilities.
 

Sigismund

Moderator
Moderator
Vampire’s Disciplines can do the same or similar effects as Mage’s Magic. Lilith is considered the first Mage and taught Caine how to harness and use his Blood.
l40vTMm.jpg

Lilith has precognition and awareness of things supernatural. Has great insight that any attempt to disrupt her senses that aren’t an Antediluvian will automatically fail. Has the ability to grow plants at an alarmingly fast rate, the ability to steal newborn children or cause miscarriages or stillbirths in women. Has the power overnight, she can direct the darkness and harness the power of the stars and the moon. Has mastery over the endless water, can spawn sea creatures, and has control over the unconscious realms of the mind.
M0qt054.jpg

Caine has every single Discipline of all vampires. For anyone that is interested of the abilities here is the thread.

Caine’s abilities.
  • Can fly.
  • Reality warping.
  • Precognition/clairvoyance.
  • Reactive evolution.
  • Telepathy.
  • Telekinesis.
  • Can transmute and petrify beings.
  • Can inflict a curse where if he is dealt damage would be reflected back seven times fold, and if he were to die, the killer would die seven times a more painful death.
  • Can harm conceptual beings.
  • Can travel through dimensions.
  • Regeneration seems like he can come back even if erased.
  • Has an abstract form.
  • Can grow stronger from others' pain, suffering, and hatred.
  • Dimensional BFR.
  • Teleportation.
  • Possession.
  • Necromancy.
  • Astral projection.
  • Shapeshift and change his size.
  • Can resurrect.
  • Can duplicate himself.
  • Can create pocket dimensions.
  • Negate regeneration.
  • Can amp and reduce superhuman abilities.
  • Can generate forcefields.
  • Can manipulate life and death, fate/probability, hyper-narrative, minds, the elements, gravity, technology, space, time, sound, plants, souls, vectors, vibrations, radiation, matter, antimatter, blood, morality, species, laws of physics, data, viruses, diseases, dimensions, and all forms of energy.
  • Has resistance to all previously stated abilities.
To note for the bolded, no matter who your ST is for your chronicle, the rules for facing Caine are straight up "You Lose".
The Players guide to Elders gives stats for the Antediluvians, meaning you can actually face them in a Chronicle. Caine has no such stats
 

Morgan Blackhand

Active member
@Morgan Blackhand @Papa Nier you guys seem to have differing views when it comes to Caine, so I'd like to hear your takes on this, when you can. :mjpls
Too slow, and God's curse has no feats against attacks that can destroy a universe. In fact, God couldn't even create the universe by itself. It required assistance from the Elohim or angels it created. Who all contributed to creation, and it was a group effort.

Anyone of note in DBS is packing as much raw power as the absolute top tiers in World of Darkness and then some. Even bog-standard raspberry Goku has as much raw power as the top tiers combined. Caine ain't clearing. Not even God is clearing.

Their best bet is through their exotic powers and abilities. However, the problem once again is that DBS characters would have resistance to a lot of it and what they can't resist they can make up for in terms of being faster on the draw.
 

Morgan Blackhand

Active member
@Morgan Blackhand what's your response to what @Papa Nier posted, in regards to the timelines and stuff, with how 5th tier mages can manipulate them, and how they're, I'm assuming, much lower on the totem pole than Caine is?
The pocket dimensions are just that. Them being endless doesn't make them universes. It means some elaborate spatial nonsense is going on. Otherwise, the Eternity Devil from Chainsaw Man would be universal. The rest is merely advanced temporal manipulation ranging from time travel and temporal displacement of locations from other periods of time. Not unlike the Discipline of Temporis belonging to the True Brujah. Who also aren't universal. Is it broken? Yes. Is the range extended to different eras? Also yes. Is the range universal? Not always. Especially in the case of Temporis which tends to localize stuff. Even the higher ranking skills are usually something that only effect a specific area. Except for Rewind Time. Which is arguably universal for reversing time by a single day. However, much like Dio's The World? They can't apply that power to anything other than said time manipulation. Caine does scale above the True Brujah though. Though even Rewind Time might be character specific and more like time-travel. Rather than rewinding all of time across the universe.
 

Morgan Blackhand

Active member
It's also something that's extremely draining in weird ways. For example, Rewind Time is a lower rank than Tangle Atropos' Hand. Despite the fact the former reverses time for you by 24 hours. The latter which is a higher rank but also extremely exhausting only turns back time for you by a few rounds. Also only specifically you. Which gives credence to the notion that only your time is being reversed, and doing so in any combat scenario is far more draining than outside of that. Which means it also requires great mental focus, and disrupting that means it eats at more of your mind.
 
These might be relevant.
Angels are undying creatures and their destruction is temporary.
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Angels are fragments of God.
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Angels were created before the universe or existence was created. Anything that wasn’t God didn't exist. The Angels helped God create everything, all concepts and reality, including Heaven. Which is incalculable compared to the infinite amount of realities and universes, even higher dimensions.
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There are an infinite number of Heavens and Hells.
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The Void is made from simple nothingness and is not an absolute negation of existence.
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Before time there was only God and the Void.
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The emissaries molded the Abyss into a new form and erected a barrier between God and the Void.
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Mages can interact with Tellurian space, push the boundaries of reality, move realms, make their own realms, and alter positions of various locations in the Umbra.
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Mages can alter the forces that affect the whole Tellurian, can change how a universal force functions or invent new forces.
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Mages can access all minds, they see the reflection of every thought in the Quintessential flow of the Tellurian. They can exist in the flow of the universal mind.
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Atlantis may have existed in several meta-physical dimensions.
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There is speculations that the Old World of Darkness is quite similar to Digimon. That everything is just information and data.
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God created the concept of death.
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Mages discovered an immortality formula that when you’re reborn/reincarnate, it will be as yourself with all your old memories intact and your old body gets repaired. This removes you from the cycle of life and death, and also the natural progression of the Tellurian. Though when Mages do this, they become nearly powerless and can never be a Mage again though they can still use minor spells with internal energy.
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Liches are basically undead mages.
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There is are “place beyond places, that timeless time”.
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Before Heaven/Paradise was destroyed, creation consisted of an almost infinite number of levels of meaning. Everything possesses multiple levels of existence. Elohim/Angels could use symbols and meaning to affect the fabric of creation, could recite a poem, and cause a star to be born because the star and the poem are the same things.
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There are places that defy conventional dimensional physics.
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Morgan Blackhand

Active member
Just sounds like a bunch of dimensional tiring for the most part. Like you would see in VSB. No surprise they wank it to outerversal. Often times using colorful prose that doesn't tell us specifics. The only thing that doesn't is the infinite myriad of heavens and hells, but even it says only some of them might be infinite. Emphasis on might since even it is not sure they are infinite. Only that they might be.
 

Morgan Blackhand

Active member
Even it originally specifies that there were just two infinities. Then those infinities broke into pieces. Which means they are more like two infinite universes. That broke into many pieces. A fraction of infinity is still infinity as the saying goes.
 
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