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Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 1: OBD 2027 prologue edition

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Thegoldenboy2188 said:
Eh, Touma, Kirei, and Shirou are mostly cut from the same cloth.

The difference is that Kirei, Shirou and Touma are looking through different perspectives.

As @Xhominid The Fool said Kirei still has a conscious despite feeling pleasure from doing evil, which is why he can feel like shit after doing evil shit.

Shirou's hero complex comes from him trying to feel the happiness he saw in kiritsugu when he saved him.

At the end of the day just like Touma there desires to do good and evil are done out selfishness.

It's just that Touma doesn't have a desire to do evil, nor wants to find happiness in saving people.

So in fact Touma's desire to save people may be the 'purest' because while selfish, it isn't done out of some other desire but because he wants to.
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Like to really get Shirou, you have to understand the Grail Mud/Fires of Fuyuki utterly made him HOLLOW and virtually forget most of his life beforehand(I heard he still remembers parts but he has no feelings towards it whatsoever).
So even when we see Shirou's worst aspects(EMIYA and especially EMIYA Alter), it's done from that lone wish of wanting everyone to be happy so he can be happy from seeing them be happy... even if EMIYA Alter virtually buried it entirely.

Touma feels really different the more I get it.
 
Xhominid The Fool said:
Like to really get Shirou, you have to understand the Grail Mud/Fires of Fuyuki utterly made him HOLLOW and virtually forget most of his life beforehand(I heard he still remembers parts but he has no feelings towards it whatsoever).
So even when we see Shirou's worst aspects(EMIYA and especially EMIYA Alter), it's done from that lone wish of wanting everyone to be happy so he can be happy from seeing them be happy... even if EMIYA Alter virtually buried it entirely.

Touma feels really different the more I get it.
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This really all I can say. It seems like everyone here has a different opinion on what kinda person touma is, including me.

All I can say is to make your own opinion off the lns.
 
Xhominid The Fool said:
Like to really get Shirou, you have to understand the Grail Mud/Fires of Fuyuki utterly made him HOLLOW and virtually forget most of his life beforehand(I heard he still remembers parts but he has no feelings towards it whatsoever).
So even when we see Shirou's worst aspects(EMIYA and especially EMIYA Alter), it's done from that lone wish of wanting everyone to be happy so he can be happy from seeing them be happy... even if EMIYA Alter virtually buried it entirely.
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Even the very first scene told from Shirou's perspective makes it abundantly clear that, even though his body survived the fire, his heart died. He takes to fixing broken things because he himself is broken and dislikes things being discarded (in the same way many people who died in the fire did). The survivor's guilt is very clear with Shirou anytime he hears about the "accidents" happening, as well as the murders. He models himself after his ideal of Kiritsugu Emiya, because he has little else to strive towards.

It's what very quickly made him a much more interesting character to me than Rin. At the very least, that's my take, I'm given to understand preferring Shirou to Rin is not a common opinion but that's where i stand for right now anyway.
 
Adamant soul said:
Even the very first scene told from Shirou's perspective makes it abundantly clear that, even though his body survived the fire, his heart died. He takes to fixing broken things because he himself is broken and dislikes things being discarded (in the same way many people who died in the fire did). The survivor's guilt is very clear with Shirou anytime he hears about the "accidents" happening, as well as the murders. He models himself after his ideal of Kiritsugu Emiya, because he has little else to strive towards.

It's what very quickly made him a much more interesting character to me than Rin. At the very least, that's my take, I'm given to understand preferring Shirou to Rin is not a common opinion but that's where i stand for right now anyway.
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And it's why the Anime and Movies never really delving into this aspect of Shirou despite it being THE defining catalyst for why he acts the way he does have people think he's either stupid or insane when he's just deeply fucked up in a massive way.
 
Xhominid The Fool said:
And it's why the Anime and Movies never really delving into this aspect of Shirou despite it being THE defining catalyst for why he acts the way he does have people think he's either stupid or insane when he's just deeply fucked up in a massive way.
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They completely dumb him down for the anime audience and make him into a far more generic protagonist. Likely hoping the flashy fight scenes and the mere presence of other more popular characters will make up for it. There's a reason I remembered pretty much NOTHING about Shirou from the original anime I saw (aside from the fact it's been years since I saw it), they don't really care about him as a character.

Saber is the face of the franchise, not Shirou. That's the character the anime staff care about.
 
It's sad how many people don't understand what kinda person Shirou is because of the anime. From what I've seen the HF movies tried to do that but kinda failed.
 
Adamant soul said:
They completely dumb him down for the anime audience and make him into a far more generic protagonist. Likely hoping the flashy fight scenes and the mere presence of other more popular characters will make up for it. There's a reason I remembered pretty much NOTHING about Shirou from the original anime I saw (aside from the fact it's been years since I saw it), they don't really care about him as a character.

Saber is the face of the franchise, not Shirou. That's the character the anime staff care about.
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I guess that's one thing Shirou and Touma definitely have in common.



Getting their characterization butchered by the anime :mjlol
 
Thegoldenboy2188 said:
It's sad how many people don't understand what kinda person Shirou is because of the anime. From what I've seen the HF movies tried to do that but kinda failed.
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Literally the only thing I ever remember about Shirou from Fate, is that one scene from the anime where he said "People die when they are killed!", and I was like, "Well, no shit, captain obvious. How'd you figure that one out?" :mjlol
 
Derpmaster9000 said:
Literally the only thing I ever remember about Shirou from Fate, is that one scene from the anime where he said "People die when they are killed!", and I was like, "Well, no shit, captain obvious. How'd you figure that one out?" :mjlol
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Let, to be fair that was a mistranslation iirc.
 
I keep forgetting that Avalon can actually heal instead of just shunting you into another dimension for protection.
 
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SCP-6820-A vs Ultimate Nullifier(Marvel)

again your logic and point necessitates it. You even go out of your way to say when we think of time manipulators were actually thinking of reality warpers which you say is concept manipulation And again your logic and point necessitates it. You even go out of your way in the time example to...
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the only good thing is this is getting people to gang up on topples. The dude deserves it
 
Xhominid The Fool said:
Like to really get Shirou, you have to understand the Grail Mud/Fires of Fuyuki utterly made him HOLLOW and virtually forget most of his life beforehand(I heard he still remembers parts but he has no feelings towards it whatsoever).
So even when we see Shirou's worst aspects(EMIYA and especially EMIYA Alter), it's done from that lone wish of wanting everyone to be happy so he can be happy from seeing them be happy... even if EMIYA Alter virtually buried it entirely.

Touma feels really different the more I get it.
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To me, Shiro is extreme altruism and Touma is extreme selfishness. Just by coincidence, these two opposites have adopted the same vector of development, but still deep down inside they are still opposites.
 
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