Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 4 Part 2: Electric Boogaloo

[Adamant soul]

Can somebody please tell God of war fans that covering your face, or ducking and rolling faster than someone can shine a light into your eyes doesn't prove that you're faster than light?
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/foru...of-war-vs-team-horus-warhammer-40k-w-2306869/

Especially when the light attack is telegraphed and requires a full second to fully charge and use.

That depends on weather the character reacted to the charging or the aiming of the attack (which would be aim-dodging) or the actual light itself.

It doesn't really matter how much set-up is requred if the target still didn't move until AFTER the light was used as is the case with Hermes and the God of War example.

It doesn't help your case that Kratos himself very blatantly reacted to Helios' light when Helios used it against him. Never mind the fact there was NO charge time in that instance or, in fact, any way for Kratos to be ready for it in advance.

The fact that there even IS a charge time IS the gameplay mechanic as it's been shown to be instant outside of gameplay by Helios.

Also acting like Hermes "dodging helios' lights" is a canonical feat that is unique to him as a testament to his speed and not just game-play is just dishonest.

It's really not when Kratos (who is slower than Hermes) was able to pull it off himself during a mandatory story sequence.

Especially when non-combatant NPC who can't even defend themselves against basic enemies can replicate this same feat the same way.

Yeah THIS would be the part that's pure gameplay, because we have reason to KNOW Pandora isn't that fast.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

iirc the light thing is one of the few cases when devs did say it was as they intended

 

[Atem]

https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/nathaniel-cade-vs-kenshiro-fotns-yujro-hanma-hayato-furinji-hsdk.57147/?post=28565536#post-28565536

Very based, I do disagree with Morgan on some things, but his argument is fair enough that I can accept it. I imagine this post of his will get deleted though.

 

[Atem]

Screen-capping this for Morgan Blackhand just in case anyone deletes it. I know he is probably lurking. Here it is buddy.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/morgan-le-fay-fate-vs-ainz-ooal-gown-overlord.1103206/page-6?post=93985096#post-93985096

Thats not really comparable to what Ainz does, Norikata was explicitly unable to freeze a human in time or use his magic on a large scale. Not only can Ainz do both those things but his time stop seems to be able to ignore resistances to some extent, he was able to time stop the evil tree despite it having temporal countermeasures and breaking out of a time stop.

...
I'm so fucking tired of people missing what Norikata was talking about despite it being so simple and blatant.
Norikata's entire deal isn't that he's able to use Time Stop on Humans, that literally goes against why Kiritsugu Emiya didn't care for that when it came to what piece of the Mage Crest he got:

Kiritsugu’s root, the Emiya family, spent generations researching and seeking the magecraft that controls time. The magic crests existing on Kiritsugu’s back inherited the fruits of research from generations of men. But the amount of prana one needs to spend and the rituals needed in preparation to activate this kind of magecraft rivals in magnitude with the greater magecrafts. Therefore, it has to be prepared and used strategically. For Kiritsugu, who made up his strategies to just survive on the battlefield, it was originally a rather useless inheritance.

It was due to the nature of it being worthless for him due to how it worked is not good for a Mage Killer for himself. We literally see him use it to not just speed himself up but slow himself down damn near to a Time Stop:

A method that kept the scope of the bounded field within the practitioner’s body made it easier to establish a Reality Marble. Although it is impossible to completely isolate the flesh from the outside world, it can minimize the affect the outside world has on the body. Within this minimal bounded field, he "adjusts" just a few seconds of time; this is the magecraft that Emiya Kiritsugu created, Innate Time Control.

For example, when he fought Kayneth just then, Kiritsugu "sped up" his blood flow, haemoglobin metabolism, and muscle movement all at the same time. All that’s left is to use his quick reaction time to dodge the attack after he easily predicted the track the mercury whips would take. Kiritsugu is capable of accomplishing physical feats impossible for ordinary humans after he accelerated the time inside his body.

Of course, the outer world didn’t make any changes; it’s just his delusion. While Kiritsugu’s optic nerves registered whatever he saw, his cornea received three times the light a person’s eyes would normally receive.

The time control this time is the exact opposite of the accelerated physical speed back then. Kiritsugu slowed his biological processes to one third of its normal speed. His breathing lagged, and his heart beat slowed and stagnated until he could barely feel it himself. Also, due to his metabolism having stopped, his body temperature declined quickly, cooling down until it is not much different from the temperature of the outside air.

The mercury flew abnormally quickly and anxiously in front of Kiritsugu, who was as still as a statue. As he expected, the mercury couldn’t detect him now. Kiritsugu’s shallow breathing and slow heart beat was muddled with the noises of the natural world. The mercury can no longer recognize the current processes of Kiritsugu’s body using the standards of a human.

The main reason why Norikata couldn't do what he wanted to do with it... is that he wanted to explicitly find the right sequence to cease to AGE NATURALLY ENTIRELY. He literally wanted him or Kiritsugu to literally DIO themselves without becoming Vampires. People are so stupid to not understand something so obvious when Norikata researched becoming a Dead Apostle of all things before not going that route should be a major indicator of what he really wants to do.

EDIT: Hell, the Anime makes it just as explicit by Norikata stating the flowers will never age anymore, not that they are in a permanent Time Stop themselves.

Thats not the same thing a we both know it, we are talking about actually reversing time here, aka localized time travel. There is really no comparison to be made here.

Stop bullshit for fucking Ainz, it's EXACTLY the fucking same. Ainz literally does the same fucking shit any typical Magus can do with Time Stop. That shit isn't DIO's The World, stop acting like Ainz's shit is that when it literally only affects a small localized area.

 

[Papa Nier]

Screen-capping this for Morgan Blackhand just in case anyone deletes it. I know he is probably lurking. Here it is buddy.

Does he have an account on OLF?

 

[Atem]

Does he have an account on OLF?

No. I don't think so, but he does lurk. I think he admitted as such on SB.

 

[BetterMaulSmacker]

That depends on weather the character reacted to the charging or the aiming of the attack (which would be aim-dodging) or the actual light itself.

It doesn't really matter how much set-up is requred if the target still didn't move until AFTER the light was used as is the case with Hermes and the God of War example.

It doesn't help your case that Kratos himself very blatantly reacted to Helios' light when Helios used it against him. Never mind the fact there was NO charge time in that instance or, in fact, any way for Kratos to be ready for it in advance.

you mean this scene? I feel like shouting "feel the power of sun" before using an attack kinda telegraphs it.

it honestly feel less solid than Faster than Light Kid Goku because of out running the solar flare.

The fact that there even IS a charge time IS the gameplay mechanic as it's been shown to be instant outside of gameplay by Helios.

really I could have sworn I saw Kratos use heilo's head full power in a cut scenes there was a charge time

It's really not when Kratos (who is slower than Hermes) was able to pull it off himself during a mandatory story sequence.

Yeah THIS would be the part that's pure gameplay, because we have reason to KNOW Pandora isn't that fast.

So it's purely game-play for some characters and not others gotcha.


iirc the light thing is one of the few cases when devs did say it was as they intended


and but it was a completely loaded question.

the question was basically "I noticed hermes is the only character/enemy that can fully dodge heilos light was this intentional? " the issue being that Hermes is very much not the only character/enemy shown doing this. so the very base of the question is bogus.


Also Steve Caterson isn't a dev. He only work on the gow games as a producer.so he really had no role in the story or animation of the game.

 

[Atem]

Lmao, and they got rid of the post.

 

[Papa Nier]

Lmao, and they got rid of the post.

What a bunch of pussies.

 

[Astaro]

you mean this scene? I feel like shouting "feel the power of sun" before using an attack kinda telegraphs it.

it honestly feel less solid than Faster than Light Kid Goku because of out running the solar flare.





really I could have sworn I saw Kratos use heilo's head full power in a cut scenes there was a charge time

So it's purely game-play for some characters and not others gotcha.


iirc the light thing is one of the few cases when devs did say it was as they intended


and but it was loaded question.

The issue is the question he was replying to is loaded? the question basically "I noticed hermes is the only character that can fully dodge heilos light was this intentional? " the issue being that Hermes is very much not the only character shown doing this.

No reaction on Kratos’ part there. Dude slowly pulled out his blades before getting completed blindsided by Helios before any visible reaction even happened

 

[BetterMaulSmacker]

No reaction on Kratos’ part there. Dude slowly pulled out his blades before getting completed blindsided by Helios before any visible reaction even happened

LMAO!! Kratos only covers his eyes after getting directly hit by it lol

 

[Astaro]

LMAO!! Kratos only covers his eyes after getting directly hit by it lol

Yup.

 

[Type-Rey]

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/morgan-le-fay-fate-vs-ainz-ooal-gown-overlord.1103206/page-6?post=93985096#post-93985096

...
I'm so fucking tired of people missing what Norikata was talking about despite it being so simple and blatant.
Norikata's entire deal isn't that he's able to use Time Stop on Humans, that literally goes against why Kiritsugu Emiya didn't care for that when it came to what piece of the Mage Crest he got:


It was due to the nature of it being worthless for him due to how it worked is not good for a Mage Killer for himself. We literally see him use it to not just speed himself up but slow himself down damn near to a Time Stop:



The main reason why Norikata couldn't do what he wanted to do with it... is that he wanted to explicitly find the right sequence to cease to AGE NATURALLY ENTIRELY. He literally wanted him or Kiritsugu to literally DIO themselves without becoming Vampires. People are so stupid to not understand something so obvious when Norikata researched becoming a Dead Apostle of all things before not going that route should be a major indicator of what he really wants to do.

EDIT: Hell, the Anime makes it just as explicit by Norikata stating the flowers will never age anymore, not that they are in a permanent Time Stop themselves.



Stop bullshit for fucking Ainz, it's EXACTLY the fucking same. Ainz literally does the same fucking shit any typical Magus can do with Time Stop. That shit isn't DIO's The World, stop acting like Ainz's shit is that when it literally only affects a small localized area.

How do you accommodate that to Thia tho ?

It's explicitly his favorite type of magecraft, it's A rank, as Thia, his limiters are off and he explicitely can't stop time.

He uses it like the retard that he is but nonetheless .

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

How do you accommodate that to Thia tho ?

It's explicitly his favorite type of magecraft, it's A rank, as Thia, his limiters are off and he explicitely can't stop time.

He uses it like the retard that he is but nonetheless .

Just gonna reformat my point as it's all over the place:
Basically, I feel it hits that same issue that various abilities basically hit in that once you reach a certain point, they effectively cease to be any different.
If you slow down your heartrate to minus nanoseconds, is it any different than a Time Stop at that point or a real bullshit Time Slow? If you can spam Fast Forward, what's the difference between that and Super Speed(Like The Flash and Zoom)?
So yeah, I guess it depends on how good Thia is in using them is where they effectively go towards like Kiritsugu and his Time Alter.

 

[Type-Rey]

mmm, It depends on how you take it to basically being similar enough it can work as a substitute like what Merlin did to Cernunnos and the Pit.

That's not the same thing.
Merlin's is directly attributable to his dream BS.

So if Thia isn't really stopping time but something close enough, then it probably can work like Esdeath's Time Stop where it only works as one as a byproduct of a different ability(Her freezing shit so hard even time freezes for like a second)

Thia specifically can't stop it. Only speeding different things up and slowing them down .

His profile specifies that shit like time stop is not a reasonable application and he can't do it.

"However, the increase or decrease of speed stops at reasonable levels, meaning it's naturally impossible for him to produce perfect stasis, light speed, or time reversal."

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

That's not the same thing.
Merlin's is directly attributable to his dream BS.

Thia specifically can't stop it. Only speeding different things up and slowing them down .

His profile specifies that shit like time stop is not a reasonable application and he can't do it.

"However, the increase or decrease of speed stops at reasonable levels, meaning it's naturally impossible for him to produce perfect stasis, light speed, or time reversal."

I decided to reformat my post earlier as I knew I didn't answer your question properly so I went differently with it but TL;DR

I guess it depends on how effective his Time Slow in that can it be an equivalent to Time Stop or basically just be a weaker version(Can he slow someone in seconds? Microseconds? Nanoseconds?). We've seen Kiritsugu slow his body so hard, it was like he wasn't there to the Body Heat seeking VH Mode and it's clearly mentioned to be him slowing his time down so effectively.

So yeah, Thia most likely can't do it as you pointed out, it's just to "reasonable levels" though considering Narita, I have no idea what he means by that.

 

[Type-Rey]

I guess it depends on how effective his Time Slow in that can it be an equivalent to Time Stop or basically just be a weaker version(Can he slow someone in seconds? Microseconds? Nanoseconds?). We've seen Kiritsugu slow his body so hard, it was like he wasn't there to the Body Heat seeking VH Mode and it's clearly mentioned to be him slowing his time down so effectively.

It doesn't matter how good it is .
It's still not time stop.

Time stop is a step above time slow in the Time manipulation tier .

So yeah, Thia most likely can't do it as you pointed out, it's just to "reasonable levels" though considering Narita, I have no idea what he means by that.

The profile spells it out that shit like time stasis , FTL speed or time reversal are not reasonable .
So reasonable is the shit he can do like speeding shit or slowing shit.

 

[Atem]

Lmao, they also deleted his first post and only kept Fractalman's snippet which cut up half of it. The half that had a ton of links to evidence and WOG.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

It doesn't matter how good it is .
It's still not time stop.

Time stop is a step above time slow in the Time manipulation tier .

The profile spells it out that shit like time stasis , FTL speed or time reversal are not reasonable .
So reasonable is the shit he can do like speeding shit or slowing shit.

Then I guess it doesn't count for him then. I think I am understanding your overall point in that I guess it is currently limited to Kiritsugu's Time Alter and I shouldn't apply it to everyone else like that right?
Because yeah, I should avoid using absolutes in debates.