Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 4 Part 2: Electric Boogaloo
- Thread starter Masterblack06
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I don't get how they are supposed to be the same or can be argued as such...
Unless they actually mean Yhwach's Sankt Altar to Reincarnation Pandora? But I have constantly talked about how enormously different they are at length so I will avoid that. Either way as I said before, Yhwach has no win condition against Alcides anymore:
The only thing that will save atleast Soul King Yhwach is if he genuinely gets Solar System+ feats and I doubt that will happen... but since this is just Yhwach without Almighty, he's just fucked.
Unless they actually mean Yhwach's Sankt Altar to Reincarnation Pandora? But I have constantly talked about how enormously different they are at length so I will avoid that. Either way as I said before, Yhwach has no win condition against Alcides anymore:
- The Grail Mud that runs through Alcides' body would make him damn near impossible to see with The Almighty even the shit he's covered with(primarily Divinity based tools from various Gods) didn't do that first if that's included.
- Alcides can just steal the Soul King and The Almighty with Reincarnation Pandora now, leaving Yhwach with even less chances of victory(Especially since it's canon that he cannot absorb the Soul King's true power and it constantly leaks from him)
- Yhwach canonically never uses any of the Schrift abilities outside of his own(Something the anime could have changed but didn't) meaning he's in an even worse mismatch than before and Alcides can just deal with all of them anyway.
- If Yhwach stupidly tries to take something Alcides on the Saint Graph level, he basically dies from the Grail Mud both physically and mentally
- Gugulanna has infinitely better feats than Soul King Yhwach does and Alcides absorbed his ass and he's in the fight like that so Yhwach gets obliterated
- Nine Lives can perma-kill Yhwach AND Alcides has his Arrows constantly dipped in Hydra Venom, meaning Yhwach WILL be in excruciating agony as he slowly melts to death(And considering how he comes back, the Hydra Venom will stay within him even if he somehow doesn't die from Nine Lives)
The only thing that will save atleast Soul King Yhwach is if he genuinely gets Solar System+ feats and I doubt that will happen... but since this is just Yhwach without Almighty, he's just fucked.
Salfarc
Paramount
You don't get how? Lemme tell you then
1. Yhwach told Ichibei that He can see the future and any abilities in the future he sees cannot Harm him
2. Ichibei use his skill and Yhwach become immune to it.
3. They want to say Yhwach is immune to Alchides RP because of Seeing the Future and therefore Alchides can't Harm him
4. I told them Alcides doesn't harm the person he stole from
5. They then say that; since Ichibei change the person's existence, Alchides stealing must work the same way
6. Since Yhwach negate Ichibei's abilities, Yhwach will negate Alchides as well
7. I told them they are 2 different abilities
8. They insist it's the same with Ichibei's name changing ability
9. I show screenshot of Alcides stealing Jack's NP and Jack don't feel nor get any harm and ask them where did Jack get harmed
10. "It just harm okay?!! Like Ichibei's!"
Again this is in the context that we are talking if Almighty is allowed. Because I told them "even with Almighty, Alcides can just steal Almighty"
I guess you didn't read the thread huh? Is hoping you guys read it and tell me what you guys think about it
Also the OP seems to disagree with you
And theres also this thing. I really dislike ppl trying to calculate when it is hard to verify the integrity and the validity
LMFAO, don't waste my time. And if the OP is that bias, then the thread is a wash from the start.
...I still don't see how that works as a comparison...
Not to mention, again that's not even true in Bleach Canon because surprise shock horror:
Yhwach has seen both Getsuga Tenshou and Kyoka Suigetsu work... and he wasn't immune to either of them. He even gets smashed by a Cero Getsuga and it actually hurt him. Besides, it was Haschwalth that made that stupid as hell declaration, not Yhwach himself.
Besides, no shit The Almighty and Sankt Altar are 2 different abilities, it doesn't stop the fact that Reincarnation Pandora can steal The Almighty meanwhile Yhwach can't steal shit without The Grail Mud fucking him up as his shit is the same as the Medallion the Sternritter uses to steal Bankai(Which is based on his ability).
Salfarc
Paramount
Thats what I told them, if it works 100% as described he would be immune to Ichigo's Zanpakuto, but he didn't. But the declaration come from Yhwach not Haschwalth.
Open this.
And the comparison is like I said above: "Ichibei use his skill and Yhwach become immune to it. since Ichibei change the person's existence, Alchides stealing must work the same way. And since Ichibei is considered "harming", therefore Alcides must harm as well, and Yhwach will be immune to Alcides".
The hell you want me to say that I haven't said a billion times over? I even stated all they will do is stonewall rather than actually answer you correctly.
I already pointed out that despite having The Almighty in his flashback with Ichibei, he didn't see or know he was gonna lose it just grabbing on the Soul King's arm and is surprised it's sealed despite the fact he should have seen it coming. He didn't see Kyoka Suigetsu coming either nor did he see Uryu's Anti-Thesis or even get back the vision that he was going to die against Ichigo. If he refuses to listen, fuck him and move on, you ain't convincing everyone and they will just stonewall you to death and I know, I have been stonewalled in SB so many goddamned times, it's the core reason why I don't do VS. debates as often anymore.
Salfarc
Paramount
Out of curiousity, what thread did you exactly got banned on?
It's hard for me to remember because it wasn't a single thread but multiple threads because it was due to my "sarcasm"(No really). The ironic part is I only became so sarcastic because Spacebattles itself basically made me want to tear my head out everytime. Pretty sure my last post was in a Demon Slayer thread in like 2020? 2021?
Everyone wanking Overlord and downplaying D&D using game mechanics tends to miss the part where Ainz, with full prep at his strongest, still admitted that he can't beat the likes of the other Supreme Ones, even the ones who are more unga bunga than hax-focused like Ainz (especially the unga bunga boys), let alone beings from the New World. Even with game mechanics in the setting rendering him as OP as he is.
Meanwhile D&D's signature lich villain with full prep and at his strongest fought the Lady of Pain to a standstill. Lets ignore the part where it was mentioned during said fight that the Lady of Pain was capable of destroying the multiverse by appearing in her true form. Lets also ignore the part where Vecna was stated by this point to have reached a level of power on par with the Serpent, which itself is considered an overdeity on the same level as Ao and the Lady of Pain. We're ignoring all of this because Overlord wankers are so unbelievably intent on using in-universe game mechanics to wank Ainz to levels where they legit believe he's a match for Dragon Ball Super, then using game mechanics to downplay Dungeons & Dragons into a setting where a horse running at full speed is still slower than Usain Bolt because of said game mechanics.
No, I'm going to play by their rules and say that the big lich guy from their favorite anime loses to the big lich guy from D&D because D&D's lich guy fought the bitch whose sole game mechanic is "You get nothing, you lose, good day, sir." Bro became so overpowered that he straight up encountered the "your character dies and there's nothing you can do about it" plot device and said "nuh uh."
If Overlord wankers want to play the mechanics game to win? Congratulations! They just unleashed something far more broken than lore D&D than they realize. They talk about how Overlord characters have such high stats nobody in D&D can hurt them? Cool, have fun with gnome crusaders that deal infinite damage with their fists. Good thing Ainz can briefly use magic to give himself martial prowess because I hope it'll help him against cancer mages who have infinite strength and cast spells with their muscles. Hope Ainz has any World Items that can prevent a Level 1 Dragonwrought Kobold from casting an epic level spell that instantly destroys the planet and himself as a result, while coming back to life anyway because of the magic jar inside his demiplane. Nazarick better have some way of dealing with dragonborn goblins that can instantly steal, strip, or relocate any creature or object in the world (including himself) before any time has passed. But even then, I doubt max wank Ainz has any chance against Pun-Pun's infinite stats and powers and millions of divine ranks.
Overlord wankers only like Overlord because it's strong and broken, but they don't even know that the entire reason why Ainz is strong and broken is because D&D is strong and broken. Ainz is one of the most broken characters in his setting because the writer originally played a shit ton of D&D and later down the line had nobody to play it with, so he wrote a story about an overpowered lich that uses the same tactics that Batman Wizards use in 3.5e Dungeons & Dragons. Everything about the world, from the monsters to the magic, comes directly from his D&D experience in some way. The Tomb Guardians are overpowered because they're monsters, which are already strong, but upgraded with player classes and decked out with magic items, the latter being notable in beefing up even the shittier characters into absolute forces of nature. Anyone who has ever played a monster PC campaign in D&D will quickly realize just how much stronger they are than pretty much anything else in the game, and then it becomes crystal clear why Nazarick is so overpowered in-universe in the first place. It's even demonstrated in the series that there aren't a lot of high-level characters with the exception of the main cast, much like in most D&D campaigns. Remember how Ainz had to autistically apply seven million buffs and make use of intense planning in order to defeat Shalltear? Now I want you to imagine that exact same scenario, but while Shalltear might not be as strong this time around, this time she just applied a bunch of buffs herself, threw out of a bunch of debuffs against Ainz, and then made some "meme batman prep time"-level autistic plan to ensure a swift and decisive victory against Ainz, and that's exactly what you will get fighting a D&D character, especially if you really want to go down the route of gameplay mechanics. Overlord wankers know that Overlord is based on D&D, but even outside of lore they don't actually know that much about D&D to realize just how much of a losing battle this is for them. They'll go on and on about how big Yggdrasil's numbers and levels are and how strong Nazarick's World Items are all while making it very clear they have never once frequented any CharOp threads on giantitp.com.
You want to say that Overlord beats D&D because of game mechanics or author intent? Fuck you, Pun-Pun the Kobold turns all Yggdrasil into a walnut with a thought because he can, followed by him telling Ao to polish his shoes like the bitch he is.
This was never a debate to begin with.
Meanwhile D&D's signature lich villain with full prep and at his strongest fought the Lady of Pain to a standstill. Lets ignore the part where it was mentioned during said fight that the Lady of Pain was capable of destroying the multiverse by appearing in her true form. Lets also ignore the part where Vecna was stated by this point to have reached a level of power on par with the Serpent, which itself is considered an overdeity on the same level as Ao and the Lady of Pain. We're ignoring all of this because Overlord wankers are so unbelievably intent on using in-universe game mechanics to wank Ainz to levels where they legit believe he's a match for Dragon Ball Super, then using game mechanics to downplay Dungeons & Dragons into a setting where a horse running at full speed is still slower than Usain Bolt because of said game mechanics.
No, I'm going to play by their rules and say that the big lich guy from their favorite anime loses to the big lich guy from D&D because D&D's lich guy fought the bitch whose sole game mechanic is "You get nothing, you lose, good day, sir." Bro became so overpowered that he straight up encountered the "your character dies and there's nothing you can do about it" plot device and said "nuh uh."
If Overlord wankers want to play the mechanics game to win? Congratulations! They just unleashed something far more broken than lore D&D than they realize. They talk about how Overlord characters have such high stats nobody in D&D can hurt them? Cool, have fun with gnome crusaders that deal infinite damage with their fists. Good thing Ainz can briefly use magic to give himself martial prowess because I hope it'll help him against cancer mages who have infinite strength and cast spells with their muscles. Hope Ainz has any World Items that can prevent a Level 1 Dragonwrought Kobold from casting an epic level spell that instantly destroys the planet and himself as a result, while coming back to life anyway because of the magic jar inside his demiplane. Nazarick better have some way of dealing with dragonborn goblins that can instantly steal, strip, or relocate any creature or object in the world (including himself) before any time has passed. But even then, I doubt max wank Ainz has any chance against Pun-Pun's infinite stats and powers and millions of divine ranks.
Overlord wankers only like Overlord because it's strong and broken, but they don't even know that the entire reason why Ainz is strong and broken is because D&D is strong and broken. Ainz is one of the most broken characters in his setting because the writer originally played a shit ton of D&D and later down the line had nobody to play it with, so he wrote a story about an overpowered lich that uses the same tactics that Batman Wizards use in 3.5e Dungeons & Dragons. Everything about the world, from the monsters to the magic, comes directly from his D&D experience in some way. The Tomb Guardians are overpowered because they're monsters, which are already strong, but upgraded with player classes and decked out with magic items, the latter being notable in beefing up even the shittier characters into absolute forces of nature. Anyone who has ever played a monster PC campaign in D&D will quickly realize just how much stronger they are than pretty much anything else in the game, and then it becomes crystal clear why Nazarick is so overpowered in-universe in the first place. It's even demonstrated in the series that there aren't a lot of high-level characters with the exception of the main cast, much like in most D&D campaigns. Remember how Ainz had to autistically apply seven million buffs and make use of intense planning in order to defeat Shalltear? Now I want you to imagine that exact same scenario, but while Shalltear might not be as strong this time around, this time she just applied a bunch of buffs herself, threw out of a bunch of debuffs against Ainz, and then made some "meme batman prep time"-level autistic plan to ensure a swift and decisive victory against Ainz, and that's exactly what you will get fighting a D&D character, especially if you really want to go down the route of gameplay mechanics. Overlord wankers know that Overlord is based on D&D, but even outside of lore they don't actually know that much about D&D to realize just how much of a losing battle this is for them. They'll go on and on about how big Yggdrasil's numbers and levels are and how strong Nazarick's World Items are all while making it very clear they have never once frequented any CharOp threads on giantitp.com.
You want to say that Overlord beats D&D because of game mechanics or author intent? Fuck you, Pun-Pun the Kobold turns all Yggdrasil into a walnut with a thought because he can, followed by him telling Ao to polish his shoes like the bitch he is.
This was never a debate to begin with.
Reading all of that is the most beautiful thing I've seen... well done.
Randomdude
Preeminent
Eh thats not quite right, iirc there are only three members of ainz ooal gown ainz could never beat regardless of how much planning he had, and the one mentioned was touch me. Overall in terms of pvp he's in the middle upper class of players with his gear. While he's not the top of the top he's better at combat/pvp then most players in the game. Saying that his specialty was usually to throw the first match then come back with more knowledge on his opponent to win.
What really carries him is his equipment, most players did not get even a single divine class item. Ainz carries and wears a full set, outfitting npcs with them is basically insane even by the logic of the game world they left behind ainz ooal gown just had the resources to burn.
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Randomdude
Preeminent
..............When did I say otherwise? I was just pointing out ainz actually was pretty good at pvp back in game, and that the amount of divine equipment ainz ooal gown had was insane/stupid even before transferring to a infinitely weaker world.
I know but it's weird to point out when it doesn't really matter in the context of what's being discussed
Randomdude
Preeminent
Also worth noting ainz kinda did consider this, he notes if shalltear fought smarter/used her buffs and abilities more intelligently his plan was essentially to run away and let the guardians come in and smack her.
I mean they mentioned ainz position in his own verse? I was just pointing out it's not quite how they remember. Similarly above they mentioned what if shalltear planned/buffed etc (More fore comparison to dnd of course), and I had to mention ainz did actually consider something akin to that possibility and his plan was to run with his tail between his legs asap.
Randomdude
Preeminent
Huh was revisiting the shalltear fight, I forgot she had a knock off sanctuary spell....Called force sanctuary....The author really was shameless especially with spell naming...He could have filed off those serial numbers a bit harder...
I should also mention that I did not fully read a single one of those reddit posts.
I skimmed one sentence of one of them while catching up to the thread, briefly saw they were downplaying with game mechanics, and knew exactly what rules I had to play by.
I skimmed one sentence of one of them while catching up to the thread, briefly saw they were downplaying with game mechanics, and knew exactly what rules I had to play by.
King of time
Exceptional
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