Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 5: Diamonds are fleeting. Stupid lasts forever

[Randomdude]

you're not going to get a good faith answer here but the latter is technically true (although it's not really quantifiable)

iirc she shook the Vault in Atlas in Volume 8 despite not being IN the Vault (which is in a different dimension) but like

yeah that's not really quantifiable

Honestly sounds more like they just didn't think about it/what it could imply (Though without more context hard to know, but considering how messy some of rwbys writing has always been "Mettle" I could easily see them thinking itd be really cool to shake the vault to show salems coming and just...Not thinking about the logistics of that),

What the fuck makes them ftl? Ive seen some of these fights and nothing I saw looked like it'd go higher then hypersonic.

Edit: Wait im betting it's fucking lasers

 

[King]

RWBY doesn't have much going for it except for the Brother Gods. Most characters are roughly on par with to small building level in terms of scale

 

[King]

your guess was in fact correct

No, Japanese materials are not canon

 

[Paxton]

No, Japanese materials are not canon

 

[Randomdude]

I remember something about the manga being cannon except where it wouldn't work with/would go against the animation? Wonder if the japenese materials all follow similar rules or if rooster teeth just didn't give a fuck

 

[Randomdude]

from the digging I've done the japanese artbook should be canon (and Penny's lasers actually do heat and melt stuff in the series proper, along with being fired in straight lines, so it adds up if they're legit lasers)

the amity arena stuff is questionable though

I don't doubt they're real lasers/find that idea shocking I find the idea everyone scales to dodging them...dubious, then again could just be a case of writers not giving a fuck and figure "Why not make everyone light speed/imply everyone is light speed?"

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

My dude, we don't always take Guidebooks as canon or else we will go with Naruto's insanely bullshit guidebooks where "Gaara's Sand Shield can't be overcome" or the Susann'O Shield is impossible to bypass and other extremely hyperbolic shit like that.

The issue with RWBY's guidebook is that while they may be light, it doesn't mean they fire as fast as light itself especially as there are times when Penny's abilities don't even remotely act as such.

 

[pucxa]

I found someone arguing salem from rwby is ftl and powerful enough to shake dimensions on reddit. I haven't touched rwby beyond some clips but is this stupidly bullshit as I suspect it is?

The shaking dimensions part is bullshit most rwby characters cap out at city block and Mach 8 or higher depending on what you buy.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

I don't doubt they're real lasers/find that idea shocking I find the idea everyone scales to dodging them...dubious, then again could just be a case of writers not giving a fuck and figure "Why not make everyone light speed/imply everyone is light speed?"

Except they then completely shat on the characters even being Lightning speed so them being FTL due to Penny's lasers make zero sense.
Which is why they are most likely not real/true light and is just pure artificial light that's nowhere near as fast.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

there is a difference between the guidebook being canon and the statement itself being blatantly hyperbolic

My dude: How?
So we should believe that Gin's Bankai can move at Mach 500 due to his guidebook despite Gin himself explicitly mentioning that it's nowhere near as fast or as long as he stated it was in the manga?

jesus christ man. proving my original point here

"you're not going to get a good faith answer here "

Paxton, you are the very definition of never answering in good faith, please do not pretend that your words have any actual weight here.

We have actually checked on RWBY, including ChaosTheory, quite a few times and we never once went with FTL for anything they have done outside of the Brother Gods who are the only ones who have done a legit FTL feat. So again, tell me why should we believe a guidebook telling us such when it's never been reflected on the show in the slightest? Or we should just believe Arrowfell as well when it says Penny has processing power in the billionths per second yet gets her ass rattled by shit that should be in slow motion for her?

 

[grillmaster]

gg should've been like tf all-canon then this conversation would be unnecessary cause its all canon simultaneously

 

[grillmaster]

with the all canon method you could have universal+ susanoo in some guidebook continuity cmon step it up

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Instance #55 of you somehow misunderstanding things from series you actually like.

We don't KNOW what Gin lied to Aizen about regarding his Bankai. For all we know, he just omitted the part about it dissipating into poison when retracted.

We know what he said to Ichigo, however, and have no reason to believe he was lying then.

Regardless, this is an entirely different point: instead of bringing up different series, address how Penny's lasers do not act like actual lasers in the series and then you'd have a proper argument that can be discussed.

...Dude, you literally just made up bullshit and it's insane you keep doing this over and over again...
Gin lied to Ichigo, he wasn't honest about shit that came from his Bankai but the poison that included to Aizen. At this point, you keep making shit up and just making yourself look like an assclown especially as you have zero proof that he was somehow telling the truth to Ichigo but omitted one detail but lied to Aizen about everything but the poison which doesn't even make sense as a Gin thing to do(Why not say "Everything I said was true... but I didn't mention the Poison?" to Aizen? That's still incharacter for Gin to do half-truths)

If I asked you to actually bring up an instance of me arguing in bad faith I'm almost certain you'd fail to do so.

You want me to bring up the Respira example? Or Mahito can regenerate from souls? Because both of those existed despite them being hugely false and you then lied and acted as if me and Black had to bring in literal pictures for proof.
The only person you are hurting here is yourself.

nyway, I don't even know what instances you're referring to. I can't argue against such a vague and broad statement.

Same thing applies to this next part. What statement in Arrowfell are you referring to and how is it contradicted, specifically?

You mean what I said because it's pretty obvious how it's contradicted to shit by any fight scene Penny has had

comparing "this attack fires high-powered beams of light" to "Gaara's sand shield is unbeatable" or "the Susanoo can blow away everything in this universe" is fucking insane

and "artificial light that's nowhere near as fast"? you can't be serious

do you need to go back to highschool physics?

Yes, because if the characters are never shown to be that fast outside of the Gods and no one has issues with Penny's lasers in the show... yeah, you can go with that in this instance. We never labeled moving faster than lasers as being FTL, it was always just sub-relativistic as even Blade himself stated as such and that's still on the high end of basic ass lasers.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

I'm not doing this retarded shit again Paxton, either put up or shut the fuck up when it comes to "We should fully believe what's stated in a guidebook" without any actual proof to it.
You trying to go "Well this is different" with my example only proves my point, it doesn't prove yours. Guidebooks can be wrong especially if the person doing it is not the anyone in the main staff writing it.
So who wrote the Guidebook? Miles and Kerry? Someone in the Staff Room? Or just some random dude saying otherwise?

 

[Paxton]

You want me to bring up the Respira example? Or Mahito can regenerate from souls? Because both of those existed despite them being hugely false and you then lied and acted as if me and Black had to bring in literal pictures for proof.
The only person you are hurting here is yourself.

Post the actual specific things I've said and explain how they were in bad faith, then?

The Mahito argument wasn't in bad faith, I literally just forgot. I wasn't willfully misinterpreting what was stated, I just didn't remember the final chapter.

And I even admitted I was wrong, something you seem to be allergic to doing.

You mean what I said because it's pretty obvious how it's contradicted to shit by any fight scene Penny has had

Ok then actually bring up specific fights and instances in the series than rather making vague statements.

Her laser's are said to be amplified light, they're fired in straight directions, and they burn and melt shit in the actual series.

Yes, because if the characters are never shown to be that fast outside of the Gods and no one has issues with Penny's lasers in the show... yeah, you can go with that in this instance. We never labeled moving faster than lasers as being FTL, it was always just sub-relativistic as even Blade himself stated as such and that's still on the high end of basic ass lasers.

So you don't have an argument beyond incredulity?

They're not even remotely comparable scenarios. Direct WoG statement ("this character's attack does X) >>> blatant hyperbolic statements.

To reiterate: address the actual validity of the statement with specific examples from the series where they don't act like actual lasers.

Also, I never once said anyone in RWBY was ftl.

 

[Randomdude]

Or just some random dude saying otherwise?

I can assure you I did not write it and im insulted you'd imply otherwise!

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Post the actual specific things I've said and explain how they were in bad faith.

I should have to post those specific things when everyone else knows what it is by me saying it?!

https://onelastforum.com/threads/circus-of-humorous-humiliating-arguments-part-5-diamonds-are-fleeting-stupid-lasts-forever.5063/post-465914

This whole argument chain isn't from you? Who included Masterblack and Blade having to explain to you how hax works to the point you believed Goku can die to Respira at the end of it?

https://onelastforum.com/threads/circus-of-humorous-humiliating-arguments-part-5-diamonds-are-fleeting-stupid-lasts-forever.5063/post-583254

When I had to defend To Aru because you acted like an ultra-spud when it came to Mahito and denied anything that wasn't a freaking picture from the manga as otherwise "we was just lying". The fact you still believe you have any level of leverage here is maddening.

The Mahito argument wasn't in bad faith, I literally just forgot.

...So why the fuck should anyone believe what you say then if you can forget something that crucial?!

Ok then actually bring up specific fights and instances in the series than making vague statements.

Her laser's are said to be amplified light, they're fired in straight directions, and they burn and melt shit.

Yes amplified light meaning false light, doesn't mean that it's literally equal to actual light. Again, you are taking this from a guidebook who you don't even know who wrote it but act like it must be canon because it's a guidebook...

They're not even remotely comparable scenarios. Direct WoG statement >>> blatant hyperbolic statements.

To reiterate: address the actual validity of the statement with specific examples from the series where they don't act like actual lasers.

Also, I never once said anyone in RWBY was ftl.

Again, did Miles and Kerry write that guidebook? Or did they not, you never actually answered the question, you are just stating we should take it as canon despite Kishimoto ALSO writing the Naruto Guidebooks...
It feels like you completely miss why we tend to accept Guidebooks in the first place and believe if it's that, then it's the case rather than if the Guidebook lines up with info we already know and adds in extras, then we take it as the truth.

 

[Flowering Knight]

We've been over where RWBY scales to way more times than what's necessary

We've done this enough to where it was given a downgrade and was treated as a small building level to single digit hypersonic verse for a while, before we had some people willing to play devil's advocate with the verse, which ended up showing that there actually are still some decent fears later on. Which reversed the downgrades and now it's back to being at MCB/Town level and MHS. Which isn't too bad all things considered (most RWBY characters can solo 90% of MHA lol).

We don't need someone to play contrarian with the verse especially when everything that isn't the main series also happens to be non-canon to the main series. Hell, we treated the series itself as being two different canons for a bit, there's no reasonable way that you can use sources from materials that contradict the main series as sensible additions to the main canon.

TL;DR:

Spoiler

 

[Paxton]

We've been over where RWBY scales to way more times than what's necessary

We've done this enough to where it was given a downgrade and was treated as a small building level to single digit hypersonic verse for a while, before we had some people willing to play devil's advocate with the verse, which ended up showing that there actually are still some decent fears later on. Which reversed the downgrades and now it's back to being at MCB/Town level and MHS. Which isn't too bad all things considered (most RWBY characters can solo 90% of MHA lol).

We don't need someone to play contrarian with the verse especially when everything that isn't the main series also happens to be non-canon to the main series. Hell, we treated the series itself as being two different canons for a bit, there's no reasonable way that you can use sources from materials that contradict the main series as sensible additions to the main canon.

TL;DR:

Spoiler

None of this addresses the validity of the original statement, nor is this even true?

This is just "I don't like it so it's not canon". No one's actually mentioning how it contradicts the series itself.

It's a case by case basis, like for most series.

Arrowfell, Grimm Eclipse, Before the Dawn/After the Fall, are all undeniably canon, for example.
The RWBY Official Companion book is not, for example.

 

[Paxton]

I should have to post those specific things when everyone else knows what it is by me saying it?!
https://onelastforum.com/threads/circus-of-humorous-humiliating-arguments-part-5-diamonds-are-fleeting-stupid-lasts-forever.5063/post-465914 This whole argument chain isn't from you? Who included Masterblack and Blade having to explain to you how hax works to the point you believed Goku can die to Respira at the end of it?

https://onelastforum.com/threads/circus-of-humorous-humiliating-arguments-part-5-diamonds-are-fleeting-stupid-lasts-forever.5063/post-583254 When I had to defend To Aru because you acted like an ultra-spud when it came to Mahito and denied anything that wasn't a freaking picture from the manga as otherwise "we was just lying". The fact you still believe you have any level of leverage here is maddening.

Yes, actually, you do need to back up what you're saying with evidence. People aren't usually mind readers, Xhom.

Not seeing anything specifically bad faith here. Goku ages, and thus would be affected by Respira if he did literally nothing and let it hit him. The situation changes, of course, if Barragan were to try to use Respira on an attack made by Goku, because it's not fast enough to do so in a relevant timeframe (as shown when Soi Fon fired her Bankai at him).

And oh no, heaven forbid I ask for a citation. The horror.

...So why the fuck should anyone believe what you say then if you can forget something that crucial?!

Because people don't remember literally every single detail and can make mistakes?

You serious?

Yes amplified light meaning false light, doesn't mean that it's literally equal to actual light. Again, you are taking this from a guidebook who you don't even know who wrote it but act like it must be canon because it's a guidebook...

That's not proof it's exponentially slower.

You need to actually explain the physics of why it'd be "fake" light, resulting in it being exponentially slower than real light. It burns and melts shit like actual light/lasers would. Just look at the dock fight in Volume 1.

Miles & Kerry both oversaw the creation of the artbook.

Again, did Miles and Kerry write that guidebook? Or did they not, you never actually answered the question, you are just stating we should take it as canon despite Kishimoto ALSO writing the Naruto Guidebooks...
It feels like you completely miss why we tend to accept Guidebooks in the first place and believe if it's that, then it's the case rather than if the Guidebook lines up with info we already know and adds in extras, then we take it as the truth.

They did, or at least they co-wrote it, is the more accurate way to phrase this.

Finding the actual PDF is proving to be a pain at the moment, given it did have limited physical sales.