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Death Battle Discussion

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not that I can really think of or at least that operate on the powerscale Lanterns do. Cape comics are at the point where theres not a lot of real even matches in manga these days
 
B Rabbit said:
Honestly. I got to the end of Persona 5 Royal.

I didn't really see any hype from Joker that would put him above GER.
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Aside from SMT scaling these are the main arguments from Joker Supporters i've seen on the Deathbattle subreddit for Joker resisting it.

Joker came back from being erased from reality by Maruki through willpower, apparently.

The "Omnipotent Orb" has text saying "Orb that bends the laws of the universe" as one of its descriptions. And since it lets Joker resist every attack type except Almighty they say it could mean Joker could bypass GER with Almighty attacks.

And the last one is Satanael's Sinful Shell ability killing Yaldabaoth. Since Yaldabaoth is a god who could fuse the Metaverse with reality or something like that.

I don't agree with any of these arguments. Since they seem to be trying to lump hax resistances together. I don't think resisting standard reality warping would let you ignore GER's Causality Manipulation especially since there are multiple reality warping abilities in Jojo (Heaven's Door and Bohemian Rhapsody) that GER should have no trouble reverting to Zero.

And I've heard Sinful Shell has some context behind it where Satanael was empowered by Humanity's wishes or something (which would be outside help). Also the Omnipotent Orb is a New Game + item so Joker having it in his standard equipment is questionable.
 
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OtherGalaxy said:
not that I can really think of or at least that operate on the powerscale Lanterns do. Cape comics are at the point where theres not a lot of real even matches in manga these days
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Then how about abilities and powers? What anime/manga character do you have the most similar powerset to the Green Lanterns?
 
Regular-Nothing Eric said:
Then where do you scale him precisely?
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Tbh. Idk enough about SMT to scale anything. Plus I didn't play the games for OBD purposes.

Yeah he beat the God or Order. And that God fused the Metaverse and the real world. But is that really on par with GER? We only saw him fuse Japan. We are really going to put that at Universe level?

Again I could be wrong. I'm very much a baby when it comes to SMT lore and I'm ok with being wrong.
 
OtherGalaxy said:
not that I can really think of or at least that operate on the powerscale Lanterns do. Cape comics are at the point where theres not a lot of real even matches in manga these days
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Part of the problem is Death Battle has shoved themselves in an unreasonably stupid corner with their interpretations of DC Heralds. They got too loose, too liberal on the scaling and they have gone beyond even conceivable Orrery Level Heralds and made them Godsphere to even Monitor-Sphere level. They now have to go through gymnastics to pigeonhole DC heralds at this level and it becomes much of a stretch, like trying to make sense of the Godwave to scale to Wonder Woman which has been thoroughly retconned/contradicted by stuff like Infinite Crisis and Final Crisis and realistically should only scale to its initial understanding of being only 2-A in VSB terms, but Death Battle would take later stuff to make it High 1-B. Shit like that. Green Lantern they would have to use either the Mandrakk thing which is so context dependent it realistically should be Orrery level too at best, or the Miracle Machine thing I already mentioned.
 
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Maddie said:
Part of the problem is Death Battle has shoved themselves in an unreasonably stupid corner with their interpretations of DC Heralds. They got too loose, too liberal on the scaling and they have gone beyond even conceivable Orrery Level Heralds and made them Godsphere to even Monitor-Sphere level. They now have to go through gymnastics to pigeonhole DC heralds at this level and it becomes much of a stretch, like trying to make sense of the Godwave to scale to Wonder Woman which has been thoroughly retconned/contradicted by stuff like Infinite Crisis and Final Crisis and realistically should only scale to its initial understanding of being only 2-A in VSB terms, but Death Battle would take later stuff to make it High 1-B. Shit like that. Green Lantern they would have to use either the Mandrakk thing which is so context dependent it realistically should be Orrery level too at best, or the Miracle Machine thing I already mentioned.
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So I take it you lean more towards the side of Anime/Manga over the Marvel/Dc/Capeshit Comic Side in powerscaling?
 
Regular-Nothing Eric said:
So I take it you lean more towards the side of Anime/Manga over the Marvel/Dc/Capeshit Comic Side in powerscaling?
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Marvel is far more lax with its cosmological scaling than DC, heralds punch way above their weight class more often with less context involved. Thor's w was legit against Vegeta, Hulk likely should have won against Broly if it's true that World Breaker Hulk scales to Skyfather level characters.

GvS1 was wrong, they somehow got a galaxy-universal character who was quadrillions of times faster than light to be only Brown Dwarf level and a couple times FTL. I'm conservative on Post Crisis Superman and only have him at large star level+ maybe, but you could argue for universe level maybe and perhaps with the highest speed feats he could win as Post Crisis, but overall it was wrong mostly due to how bad they downplay both characters. I would argue Goku's downplaying was more egregious given how much they straight up broke the powerscaling by their denial of powerscaling characters, the gravity formula, and weird headcanon about filler images to get results.

GvS2 was a mistake that was made right as Dragon Ball Super was getting ready to happen. It technically was correct in result (Obviously horribly wrong in analysis, limitless Superman kek) because there was no reason to think movie SSJG/SSJB Goku with only solar system statements from Beerus who he was still weaker than and no DBS to make him universal would be enough to beat Post Crisis Superman (Even if I buy Post Crisis as only large star level+ so far) due to the speed, hax, and experience

GvS3 was correct because Infinite Frontier Superman, compared to earlier Post Crisis, New 52, and even Rebirth (Who was already starting to get really impressive in feats) is simply a different beast who is a composite that beat Trigon and has multiple instances of Source scaling, among other things. There really was nothing Goku could do against the most modern incarnation of Superman, who basically is the very thing Death Battle claimed Superman was in GvS2. They still apparently flubbed up some things, like Miracle Machine scaling and using the World Forger feat as a base feat when he was sundipped in a higher dimensional space. It didn't matter, Superman had too much. I just wish they gave Goku someone he could beat at this stage like Mori Jin, not fun being in the 3 losses gang.

Reverse Flash would shred Goku Black and nobody disagrees with it.
 
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Maddie said:
Part of the problem is Death Battle has shoved themselves in an unreasonably stupid corner with their interpretations of DC Heralds. They got too loose, too liberal on the scaling and they have gone beyond even conceivable Orrery Level Heralds and made them Godsphere to even Monitor-Sphere level. They now have to go through gymnastics to pigeonhole DC heralds at this level and it becomes much of a stretch, like trying to make sense of the Godwave to scale to Wonder Woman which has been thoroughly retconned/contradicted by stuff like Infinite Crisis and Final Crisis and realistically should only scale to its initial understanding of being only 2-A in VSB terms, but Death Battle would take later stuff to make it High 1-B. Shit like that. Green Lantern they would have to use either the Mandrakk thing which is so context dependent it realistically should be Orrery level too at best, or the Miracle Machine thing I already mentioned.
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I have to wonder what the point of this kinda highballing is, though honestly a show that ran 100% with the craziest highball interpretations possible would be pretty fun, but my issue is db doesn’t really play fair with it and it results in stuff like the DC inflation you’ve outlined
 
Maddie said:
Marvel is far more lax with its cosmological scaling than DC, heralds punch way above their weight class more often with less context involved. Thor's w was legit against Vegeta, Hulk likely should have won against Broly if it's true that World Breaker Hulk scales to Skyfather level characters.

GvS1 was wrong, they somehow got a galaxy-universal character who was quadrillions of times faster than light to be only Brown Dwarf level and a couple times FTL. I'm conservative on Post Crisis Superman and only have him at large star level+ maybe, but you could argue for universe level maybe and perhaps with the highest speed feats he could win as Post Crisis, but overall it was wrong mostly due to how bad they downplay both characters. I would argue Goku's downplaying was more egregious given how much they straight up broke the powerscaling by their denial of powerscaling characters, the gravity formula, and weird headcanon about filler images to get results.

GvS2 was a mistake that was made right as Dragon Ball Super was getting ready to happen. It technically was correct in result (Obviously horribly wrong in analysis, limitless Superman kek) because there was no reason to think movie SSJG/SSJB Goku with only solar system statements from Beerus who he was still weaker than and no DBS to make him universal would be enough to beat Post Crisis Superman (Even if I buy Post Crisis as only large star level+ so far) due to the speed, hax, and experience

GvS3 was correct because Infinite Frontier Superman, compared to earlier Post Crisis, New 52, and even Rebirth (Who was already starting to get really impressive in feats) is simply a different beast who is a composite that beat Trigon and has multiple instances of Source scaling, among other things. There really was nothing Goku could do against the most modern incarnation of Superman, who basically is the very thing Death Battle claimed Superman was in GvS2. They still apparently flubbed up some things, like Miracle Machine scaling and using the World Forger feat as a base feat when he was sundipped in a higher dimensional space. It didn't matter, Superman had too much. I just wish they gave Goku someone he could beat at this stage like Mori Jin, not fun being in the 3 losses gang.

Reverse Flash would shred Goku Black and nobody disagrees with it.
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Would you agree with the answers of this thread? https://community.cbr.com/posts/6882155?172631-Gohan-vs-Skaar&p=6882155&viewfull=1

Especially from big_adventure?
 
These new conversations remind me of the pre-Super era OBD

The common consensus was Superman beating Goku, but it seems the salt for it was so unbearable that the debate and all its permutations got banned in the forum

I once opened a Beerus (Movie version) Vs. Gladiator (Marvel) thread, and it was quickly locked due to the Goku Vs. Superman ban applying to any top tier Dragon Ball character Vs. any Comic book Herald level character

Good times 😆
 
GaRyiwtWwAAj9i_
 
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