Dungeons & Dragons Feats and Lore General

[Flowering Knight]

In the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide for 4th Edition, Lolth is considered a Greater God, giving her full universe level scaling in the process.

This is especially helpful for scaling given her true form is statted out in 4e's Monster Manual 3, separate from her aspect/avatar form.


If anything, this is further evidence that the strongest epic level beings are more than likely universe level.

 

[Flowering Knight]

Wizards and Sorcerers are casting Mordenkainen's Disjunction, a spell which permanently removes magic within an area as well as magical effects from magic items. The spell is also capable of destroying antimagic fields and can even destroy artifacts, many of which are created by gods and can only be destroyed by gods.

Being that this is a thing high level Wizards/Sorcerers can do, it's suffice to say they can punch pretty high up as far as power negation is concerned.

 

[Flowering Knight]

The Abyss is confirmed to have an infinite number of layers, and each layer is confirmed to be infinite in size.

Furthermore, the Outer Planes are also confirmed to be infinite in size, and the Prime Material Plane is also confirmed to be infinite as well.

A pretty nice boost for gods, demon lords, and beings on a similar tier.

 

[Atem]

In terms of levels I see gods like Lolth are Level 35, but what's actually the max level for gods and greater gods? Is there anything higher than 40?

And how does Elminster stack up? Since he seems to be Level 35 like Lolth, despite being mortal.

Does that mean Level 40 characters shouldn't have any problems with them, or is there something speacial they have outside of that?

 

[Flowering Knight]

In terms of levels I see gods like Lolth are Level 35, but what's actually the max level for gods and greater gods? Is there anything higher than 40?

And how does Elminster stack up? Since he seems to be Level 35 like Lolth, despite being mortal.

Does that mean Level 40 characters shouldn't have any problems with them, or is there something speacial they have outside of that?

Typically what you'll find on the level higher than greater gods are overdeities, which is a hilarious power difference considering the latter have no stats and are >>>>> all other deities, having control over the entire setting and putting them decently high into multiversal. Shit like the Lady of Pain, where the only rule when fighting them is 'you lose, good day sir.'

Elminster definitely should be on the level of at least lesser gods but based off his "I am better than you" status with Forgotten Realms I wouldn't be surprised if he was greater god level honestly

Levels are a bit different with each edition (mainly from 3e onward) as only 3e and 4e actually allow characters to reach epic levels. 3e technically had no level cap and 4e capped out at 30 but had the occasional CR 35 enemy intended to be thrown at a max level party. 5e did away with epic levels entirely but also introduced epic boons which are intended to be given to level 20 characters so the intent is still there. But usually a five level difference is enough to go from a 'modicum of challenge' to 'stomp fight', I just wanted to explain what the hell is going on with levels (and why I haven't brought up Eberron)

Since the lore is otherwise the same the best way for me to go about the changes is to just adapt the scaling for each edition based on any major figures, but apart from 5e usually being a bit fucked it seems to be alright.

 

[Atem]

Typically what you'll find on the level higher than greater gods are overdeities, which is a hilarious power difference considering the latter have no stats and are >>>>> all other deities, having control over the entire setting and putting them decently high into multiversal. Shit like the Lady of Pain, where the only rule when fighting them is 'you lose, good day sir.'

Elminster definitely should be on the level of at least lesser gods but based off his "I am better than you" status with Forgotten Realms I wouldn't be surprised if he was greater god level honestly

Levels are a bit different with each edition (mainly from 3e onward) as only 3e and 4e actually allow characters to reach epic levels. 3e technically had no level cap and 4e capped out at 30 but had the occasional CR 35 enemy intended to be thrown at a max level party. 5e did away with epic levels entirely but also introduced epic boons which are intended to be given to level 20 characters so the intent is still there. But usually a five level difference is enough to go from a 'modicum of challenge' to 'stomp fight', I just wanted to explain what the hell is going on with levels (and why I haven't brought up Eberron)

Since the lore is otherwise the same the best way for me to go about the changes is to just adapt the scaling for each edition based on any major figures, but apart from 5e usually being a bit fucked it seems to be alright.

So, how would a level forty Legend like the Knight Commander stack up for being a demon lord killer? Using Pathfinder as the context?

 

[Papa Nier]

You can also reach level 40 in Baldur’s Gate 2.

 

[Atem]

You can also reach level 40 in Baldur’s Gate 2.

Same for Neverwinter Nights IIRC.

 

[Papa Nier]

Apparently max level in Planescape: Torment is 128 it takes ages to get to. Normally you can get your main character near level 40 following all quests and combat options, and you can keep going if you grind.

 

[Atem]

Apparently max level in Planescape: Torment is 128 it takes ages to get to. Normally you can get your main character near level 40 following all quests and combat options, and you can keep going if you grind.

I think that's mostly gameplay mechanics, and he is more likely around level forty. The Transcendant One, who represents his mortality and accumulated power, was able to create a universe sized plane at least. He also freed the gith from the mind flayer empire or something, and had a significant part in that.

However, it's implied that he ended the Blood War so he might also be some absurd level like that. Hard to say for sure, but forty at the very least is a good estimate.

 

[Atem]

Though I do find it funny both Wrath of the Righteous and Planescape: Torment establishes mortality as insanely powerful when embraced completely, and the Nameless One is at his strongest when mortal and killable.

 

[Paxton]

based mortality enjoyers

 

[Flowering Knight]

So, how would a level forty Legend like the Knight Commander stack up for being a demon lord killer? Using Pathfinder as the context?

Well we'd have to go off Pathfinder lore which admittedly I know less about, though from what I do understand at least the dude should be continental at the very least since demon lords should be similar in scaling to runelords.

Then again Wrath of the Righteous has cosmic bullshit going for it so I'm not sure if that would matter

Edit: Meant to say Wrath of the Righteous

 

[Atem]

Well we'd have to go off Pathfinder lore which admittedly I know less about, though from what I do understand at least the dude should be continental at the very least since demon lords should be similar in scaling to runelords.

Then again Wrath of the Righteous has cosmic bullshit going for it so I'm not sure if that would matter

Edit: Meant to say Wrath of the Righteous

A level twenty party in Kingmaker could fight a spawn of The Rough Beast. The deity itself being a threat to the whole multiverse, and the progeny it had fusing multiple planes together.

A level twenty normal class level/ten mythic level angel in Wrath of the Righteous can purge entire planes to prevent other demon lords from claiming and fusing with them, and kill demon lords outright. A level forty Legend can likewise fight and kill demon lords even in their own planes.

Demon Lords themselves are near deities, can one-shot Level 28 dragons, and can even one-shot Aeons, who in Pathfinder are by default planet busters who can generate supernovas.

Like, it's one of the first things Deskari does, the dead Aeon you find for the associated Mythic Path is one he killed and it was effortlessly. Only reason it's different for the Knight Commander is because he has the power of dead demon lords on top of it thanks to mommy Areelu.

 

[Atem]

The Legend mythic path, however is not really a mythic path, but what happens when the Knight Commander's sheer mega maxing outpaces all of the demon lords inside of him. He forces their corruption out, gets a massive stat bonus to all of his stats, becomes completely immune to Worldwound taint, and his level cap is unlocked. Extending from twenty to forty for normal levels, and all mythic levels disappear. It's all just him at that point.

Through sprezzatura he becomes more powerful than the demon lord essence(s) occupying his body, and relies entirely on mortal classes and feats but gets way more of them than anyone else due to being able to reach level forty.

 

[Flowering Knight]

In the 2e module Die Vecna Die!, Vecna makes plans to transform into a god for the purpose of erasing and remaking the multiverse. It should be noted that this adventure is tied to the Planescape setting, which itself is tied to nearly every officially published D&D setting.

Vecna, despite reaching godhood, is capable of entering the city of Sigil, which prevents all gods and divine entities from entering. It should be noted that Vecna's power here is stated to be equal to The Serpent.

Vecna nearly causes the multiverse to collapse, and even causes permanent damage to the multiverse (which doubles as being the canonical explanation for the shift from 2e to 3e). This is huge given the Lady of Pain, who was trying to prevent Vecna's actions, is capable of instantly destroying the multiverse just by existing in her true form. Furthermore, it states that the Serpent is part of the Ancient Brethren alongside the Lady of Pain.

 

[Atem]

How does Ao stack up to the Lady?

 

[Flowering Knight]

How does Ao stack up to the Lady?

Should be equal, given they're technically both overdeities.

 

[Darth Nihilus]

Bumping this because I'm playing now and I've chosen the Monk class

Warlock in multiplayer and I'm getting immersed into the game

It's a different experience for me when it comes to an RPG but the same feels and love is there

 

[Flowering Knight]

You know I just remembered that a new Planescape book came out

Didn't buy it because I'm not interested in 5e anymore but I might *ahem* borrow a copy just to see if anything noteworthy is in there featwise especially since 5e likes to make everything available for all settings

Depending on what's in there it might have another huge boost for overdeities