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Mad God Genis-Vell vs ToAru

Irradiance

Slightly Above Average
Also @Irradiance, @Mr.OMG don't TMG's react to Corozon's Magick Flaming Sword? Can you post that speed feat?
Do they? Not sure I remember them doing it, although it's possible. IIRC some people reacted to it. Personally, I don't buy the "infinite acceleration" in the spells magic babble to be about literal speed, though, if that's what you're getting at.

Feel like bringing up the Sepiroth and Qlipoth here is kinda overcomplicating things, though. Don't think the hierarchy of them is the same as the phases frequencies, given how non-christian religions also have phases and Marian can open "portals" from the other phases.
The tree hierarchies are more conflated with the Aeon hierarchy.

Not sure why you bring up WR timeline shenanigans either. Those are a different thing from the different frequency spaces of phases.
 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
Not sure why you bring up WR timeline shenanigans either. Those are a different thing from the different frequency spaces of phases.

Thought that the stretching of the universe was how phases fit, I'll delete it.

Nah, they also conflate with phases, Gabriel was fucking up the human world with his existence because he's supposed to exist on a higher plane. And the Gods Marian summons would've done the same thing if she hadn't placed a barrier.

Do they? Not sure I remember them doing it, although it's possible. IIRC some people reacted to it. Personally, I don't buy the "infinite acceleration" in the spells magic babble to be about literal speed, though, if that's what you're getting at.
I mean, the spell is supposed to be equal to Gungnir which can destroy the entire universe...

Also in NT 18 apparently Corozon gets sent to Niang-Niang's world where she becomes her 'toy'. If the wiki is correct so I was wondering if that gave the TMG's any feats.
 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
Also here's the cite for Corozon's infinite acceleration attack.

 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
Also how strong was the big bang Genis created? Aleister Crowley has this.


And he/she wasn't able to defeat the infinitely weakened TMG's with this.

 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
Also here's the cite for Corozon's infinite acceleration attack.
Forgot this.

Here's the cite that it's on the level of Gungnir.

 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
I mean when we end up having to somehow believe Universal Phases despite the author saying there is no other Universes and at this point, anything can be a Phase... then how is anyone supposed to take that seriously?
And Fate has a magical version of planet earth inside of itself with it’s entrance being a dragon head.

How is anyone supposed to take that seriously?

Toaru has other worlds that can be created through World Rejector because ‘universe stretchy rubberband’.

Suspend your belief and disbelief a little is what I’m saying.

Also the worldbuilding of Toaru, while it may seem it weird, still follows the rules of its own internal logic.

So even if the phase=universe thing doesn’t make sense to you because of there being no other universes, it make sense in Toaruland and Kamachi’s head because ‘there layers of reality!’ Despite how they may as well be other universes.
 
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And Fate has a magical version of planet earth inside of itself with it’s entrance being a dragon head.

How is anyone supposed to take that seriously?

Because it's actually explained alot better without it being so complicated it hurts your brain?
There's a reason I keep asking people what a Phase even is and all I get is multiple points on what it actually is.

Toaru has other worlds that can be created through World Rejector because ‘universe stretchy rubberband’.

Suspend your belief and disbelief a little is what I’m saying.

Yeah no, don't toss that at me as if I only come critical at To Aru when RWBY literally exists for me.
I give series many bones on when it comes down to how something works and how well it makes sense and trust me when I say the following:
To Aru is the one series that has officially stumped me despite me trying so hard to understand any of it despite consistently dipping my toes into shit like Marvel and DC, Dark Towers and Dungeons and Dragons.


And that's precisely why most of that shit doesn't work in a VS. layout.
It ONLY makes sense in Kamachiland and barely even factors into a VS. debate and it's not like it's the only series that has this problem, but it's the main one consistently cited as everyone loves to use it.
 

Irradiance

Slightly Above Average
I mean when we end up having to somehow believe Universal Phases despite the author saying there is no other Universes and at this point, anything can be a Phase... then how is anyone supposed to take that seriously?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Marvel have universes with universe-sized pocket dimensions in them as well? Like, pretty sure it's really not that uncommon.

Heck, Jimmy Neutron's hypercube and Rimuru's stomach are infinite dimensions that are not separate universes.
 

Not when it includes stuff like Mount Olympus and it's Underworld supposedly being 2 separate Universes when that doesn't even make sense within it's own myth.
And yeah, Marvel does it... and actually shows it and then some. How do you know if every single one of those Phases are genuine Universes or is just Worlds? Hoshi can mean alot of things so how exactly would that equal Universe?
 

Irradiance

Slightly Above Average
Thought that the stretching of the universe was how phases fit, I'll delete it.
Nah. The phases fit due to the different frequencies. Consider that they are like the imaginary numbers district.

Meanwhile WR world is separate in time, which is why the MGs were so exited about that.

Nah, they also conflate with phases, Gabriel was fucking up the human world with his existence because he's supposed to exist on a higher plane. And the Gods Marian summons would've done the same thing if she hadn't placed a barrier.
Gabriel both comes from heaven, which has a different frequency, and has a higher ranking in the sephiroth. His standing in the sephiroth indeed has much to do with the problems with angel fall, but that isn't equivalent to frequency.

It just kinda can't be directly related as you can't sort gods of polytheistic religions as easily into the sephiroth. (well you can sort them into aeon so you kinda can, but still)

The infinite acceleration thing can just really easily be figurative or mean eternal acceleration or something. It doesn't behave particularly infinite in speed.

Coronzon lands in WR world due to time dilation caused by relativity, yeah. Nepthys and Niang Niang start toying with her, but a Coronzon in bad condition rips open a gap in spacetime and crawls back out of WR world. That's basically all we see of that encounter.
 

Irradiance

Slightly Above Average
The hundreds of billions of phases Othinus send Touma through are universe sized as they were slightly-altered copies of the main world and overwrote the main universe. Pretty simple.

The mythological phases could be smaller than universes. It depends on how large they are believed to be.
 

Masterblack06

Man of Atom
Moderator
I ain't read any of the thread but I will say this. Don't be like SB and hyperfocus on how a verse works and scaling and shit for multiple pages like they do with Fate. It's a fast and easy way to get your verse yeeted into oblivion
 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
Because it's actually explained alot better without it being so complicated it hurts your brain?
You say this as if Fate fans haven’t been arguing over the lore for years.


There's a reason I keep asking people what a Phase even is and all I get is multiple points on what it actually is.
Except not, I literally posted multiple explanations about phases from the books. There layers/dimension of different religions that contain gods/homes are gods and are universes in and of themselves. And magic gods can destroy/create these phases. None of the explanations of phases contradict each other, they just add on each other.


Yeah no, don't toss that at me as if I only come critical at To Aru when RWBY literally exists for me.
Why are you bringing up RWBY? RWBY has a whole host of problems that are unrelated to Toaru.


To Aru is the one series that has officially stumped me despite me trying so hard to understand any of it despite consistently dipping my toes into shit like Marvel and DC, Dark Towers and Dungeons and Dragons.
Didn’t you say you only tried watching the anime? The same anime that cut things out and had a crap S2? I have a link to the books on my analysis thread, just start from OT 1 and go from there, it’s not hard.


Unfortunately Kamachiland logic has to factor into the VS. Debate because that’s where these characters are from. And in Kamachiland, Phases can have stars/galaxies/time/space/concepts and more because that’s how Kamachi wrote it.

In fact Marvel itself also has a many-layered universe like Toaru.



So no idea why Toaru can’t have one.


How do you know if every single one of those Phases are genuine Universes or is just Worlds? Hoshi can mean alot of things so how exactly would that equal Universe?

Because of how MG’s powers are explained, MG’s paint over the world to create phases.

Also as @Irradiance brought up. Even if the religious phases aren’t actually universes, it’s a moot point because Othinus explicitly recreated a universe with galaxies and shit hundred’s of billions of times.
 
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Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
Except here.

It’s explicitly stated that the power of gods on the human world can cause an event like Angel Fall or do what Othinus did.
 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
I ain't read any of the thread but I will say this. Don't be like SB and hyperfocus on how a verse works and scaling and shit for multiple pages like they do with Fate. It's a fast and easy way to get your verse yeeted into oblivion
You talking to us or them? Because we ain’t really hyper focusing on anything, it’s just that they can’t accept that Toaru cosmology works like this for some reason.
 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
The infinite acceleration thing can just really easily be figurative or mean eternal acceleration or something. It doesn't behave particularly infinite in speed.
Acceleration really just means how fast something starts or gains in speed. If the sword accelerates infinitely at the beginning then it’s speed is infinite.


The Magick Flaming Sword explicitly is released with infinite acceleration.


Nepthys and Niang Niang start toying with her, but a Coronzon in bad condition rips open a gap in spacetime and crawls back out of WR world. That's basically all we see of that encounter.
Ah, if we don’t see how the MG’s toy with her or if she used her spell then we can’t really scale them.

Well they’ll still scale above Othinus and Aleister.
 

Mr.OMG

Paramount
I'll just add for myself that the Magical Gods have explored the entire universe and all the piled-up Phases.