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OBD Convo #30: SHARK SUPREMACY

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Derpmaster9000

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So we have Ovid to blame for in making Zeus the degenerate who fucked his whole family as most people now know him as today?
Not just Ovid, though he certainly played a part. Before him, Zeus still had many affairs with goddesses and women according to various poets, but some poets, if I recall, lighten this in terms of its impact on Hera, by having all of his godly sexual exploits occur before he married her, and calmed down somewhat(Still had affairs with mortal women though, because how else would CHADs like Herakles be born?):mjlol

Also, interesting fact about the stars, the Ancient Greeks believed the stars to also be the homes of spirits who once lived on earth, so whenever a god(mainly Zeus) sent someone to the stars, he was basically sending them to a new home, usually free of conflict, so they'd not have to suffer anymore. It was a mercy, rather than a dick move, as some people believe.

TLDR, Zeus had a weakness of hot women. Outside of that, though, as far as the Ancient Greeks were concerned, he was generally a solid ruler of heaven, with some hiccups here and there.
 

NostalgiaFan

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I recall Virgil being stuck in the least bad part of Hell, but still in Hell. Might be misremembering that though.
It is technically a part of hell but just right above it and it is for chivalrous humans who were either non-Christians or born before Christ came to earth and they suffer nothing save the fact they know they cannot enter heaven but outside of that they are fine talking and having conversations with each other so they have it good compared to literally every other part of Hell.
Again, his political leanings and his feelings on full display with the Caesar thing. Man didn't even attempt to hide his heavy bias there. :mjlol
Yeah dude would have been on his knees worshiping Caesar if he came back to life as hard as he would Jesus Christ :risitas
 

Sigismund

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To be fair to Dante, he wrote the Comedies after the Civil War in Florence, so it was post war beef. Also the character of Dante is at his most petty and worst acting during Inferno, which is the entire point for his later revelations. Even then, Paradise explains that what he has seen isn't all real, instead its Heaven and Hell making themselves knowable to Dante in a way by Gods's own command. Neither Heaven or Hell or Purgatory are exactly like Dante saw, each level more or less exists simultaneously with one another.

And Caeser isn't just in Limbo (1st layer of Hell), he has a full ass throne in Limbo.
 

NostalgiaFan

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Not just Ovid, though he certainly played a part. Before him, Zeus still had many affairs with goddesses and women according to various poets, but some poets, if I recall, lighten this in terms of its impact on Hera, by having all of his godly sexual exploits occur before he married her, and calmed down somewhat(Still had affairs with mortal women though, because how else would CHADs like Herakles be born?):mjlol
Well I mean outside of just having sex with Women giving him a boner did he still do other shit like come in the form of an animal and have bestiality shit and stuff like that? Also the incest?
Also, interesting fact about the stars, the Ancient Greeks believed the stars to also be the homes of spirits who once lived on earth, so whenever a god(mainly Zeus) sent someone to the stars, he was basically sending them to a new home, usually free of conflict, so they'd not have to suffer anymore. It was a mercy, rather than a dick move, as some people believe.
I know that many Abrahamic beliefs state that Angels are Stars or at least live in them so cool to see that is also in Greek myths as well.
TLDR, Zeus had a weakness of hot women. Outside of that, though, as far as the Ancient Greeks were concerned, he was generally a solid ruler of heaven, with some hiccups here and there.
I mean was it just hot women or boys as well? and did it also involves other animals or was that Ovid taking the piss?
 

Top59

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Frp2iDGWIAQrVPA
The games that came out in reality where the "woke" never existed. :wow
 

Astaro

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Limbo is a part of Hell but there’s no actual punishment since it’s for those who were virtuous but simply didn’t know God.

They live in a beautiful landscape to carry out their lives just as they did on Earth among fellow poets and scholars, their “punishment” being only able to enjoy the limits of their own human intellect rather than the eternal joy of Heaven that even the greatest that humanity and Earth has to offer pales to in comparison
 

Derpmaster9000

Balor Béimnech
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Well I mean outside of just having sex with Women giving him a boner did he still do other shit like come in the form of an animal and have bestiality shit and stuff like that? Also the incest?

I know that many Abrahamic beliefs state that Angels are Stars or at least live in them so cool to see that is also in Greek myths as well.

I mean was it just hot women or boys as well? and did it also involves other animals or was that Ovid taking the piss?
By the nature of being Gods, its not really possible to have incest with each other, given they're beyond biological constraints like DNA, which is what makes incest a horrendous thing to do, in the first place. When it comes to the animal thing... it really depends on who you read. Some say he did, and some say he merely came upon them as an animal, before turning back into his normal form for the intercourse part. The only one that stayed consistent, is the bit with Perseus' mother within a box, where he made love to her as a golden shower of rain(Or rays of golden light. Translation may or may not be correct, on that one).

Its either a hold-over from Greek Myth, or like the Greeks, the hebrews had somewhat of the same idea. Wouldn't be shocking in the least.

I used to think he got involved with boys just like girls, but I've since been shown the reality. With Zeus, he had only one 'lover' that was male, who is only acknowledged outright as such post romanisation by a select few. Before then, what was actually said in the text, was that Zeus admired and thought of this young man(Ganymede) as the purest of humanity, and so rewarded him by giving him a place upon Olympus, as an immortal and as his personal cupbearer, which was seen as a huge honor that only the likes of Herakles would come to surpass, when became the God of strength, after his mortal death and ascension to Heaven/Olympus.
 

Derpmaster9000

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So every straight nigga out there
Basically, yes. One could argue that Zeus losing himself to lust so often was also a cautionary tale in and of itself for men out there, to not be ashamed of their base urges, if even the king of heaven could fall victim to them, but to have better control over them and not fall prey to them, lest folks get hurt, as was the case with many of Zeus' lovers and his own wife. :wow
 
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NostalgiaFan

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By the nature of being Gods, its not really possible to have incest with each other, given they're beyond biological constraints like DNA, which is what makes incest a horrendous thing to do, in the first place.
Yeaaaaah not buying it. Even if we ignore the DNA thing they are acknowledged as a family and it feels fucked up for a man to fuck what is he considers a daughter and vice versa for a women doing that to someone she considers a son.
When it comes to the animal thing... it really depends on who you read. Some say he did, and some say he merely came upon them as an animal, before turning back into his normal form for the intercourse part. The only one that stayed consistent, is the bit with Perseus' mother within a box, where he made love to her as a golden shower of rain(Or rays of golden light. Translation may or may not be correct, on that one).
That can easily be corrupted nowadays as he him pissing on her and getting her pregnant :hestonpls


But yeah if he was originally just transforming into an animal only to go back to a more human form than that takes away any degenerate points.
Its either a hold-over from Greek Myth, or like the Greeks, the hebrews had somewhat of the same idea. Wouldn't be shocking in the least.
I think it depends on how old many of the things we see in Greek myths are since due to their nature of being passed down orally throughout history their original versions may have been far different than how we see them today. Also on how long the Hebrews themselves lived to talk about their own beliefs since many of theirs were less inspired by Greek myths and more incorporated many of their words and names as a way to make more sense to the dominate Greek populace that lived in their time. Things like the testament of Solomon and Book of Enoch were written around the time of the Hellenistic age so they would have had a lot more Greeks living in their land and many of which would have even grown up reading and speaking Greek so a lot of things that seem familiar could have either been because they needed to make sense to a people unfamiliar to the Jewish faith hence the mention of "tartarus" and "sirens" which could mean a general term for the underworld and evil female monsters rather than outright referencing Greek Myths. For all we know their could have been things in Greek myths that were inspired by some things in Hebrew beliefs, since we know the Ptolemies made a Greek play on the Exodus that was popular enough to cause seething among the native Egyptian populace as to have them make their own plays mocking it for making them look bad.
I used to think he got involved with boys just like girls, but I've since been shown the reality. With Zeus, he had only one 'lover' that was male, who is only acknowledged outright as such post romanisation by a select few. Before then, what was actually said in the text, was that Zeus admired and thought of this young man(Ganymede) as the purest of humanity, and so rewarded him by giving him a place upon Olympus, as an immortal and as his personal cupbearer, which was seen as a huge honor that only the likes of Herakles would come to surpass, when became the God of strength, after his mortal death and ascension to Heaven/Olympus.
So like so many things with "Greeks and Homos" we may have gotten a skewered version of it that was corrupted by later Roman sources to make them look bad?
 

Derpmaster9000

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Yeaaaaah not buying it. Even if we ignore the DNA thing they are acknowledged as a family and it feels fucked up for a man to fuck what is he considers a daughter and vice versa for a women doing that to someone she considers a son.
That's fair. Even if that is accepted, some of the things done are still fucked up, no matter what way you slice it. I ain't about to defend that. :mjlol
That can easily be corrupted nowadays as he him pissing on her and getting her pregnant :hestonpls


But yeah if he was originally just transforming into an animal only to go back to a more human form than that takes away any degenerate points.
It can. It was never presented as such, but given how certain folks can be in modern times, I wouldn't put it past them.

Again, as I said, depends on who you read. You had poets in both camps. What can be said there though, is that one side is definitely less degenerate in their thinking of Zeus then the other.:mjpls
I think it depends on how old many of the things we see in Greek myths are since due to their nature of being passed down orally throughout history their original versions may have been far different than how we see them today. Also on how long the Hebrews themselves lived to talk about their own beliefs since many of theirs were less inspired by Greek myths and more incorporated many of their words and names as a way to make more sense to the dominate Greek populace that lived in their time. Things like the testament of Solomon and Book of Enoch were written around the time of the Hellenistic age so they would have had a lot more Greeks living in their land and many of which would have even grown up reading and speaking Greek so a lot of things that seem familiar could have either been because they needed to make sense to a people unfamiliar to the Jewish faith hence the mention of "tartarus" and "sirens" which could mean a general term for the underworld and evil female monsters rather than outright referencing Greek Myths. For all we know their could have been things in Greek myths that were inspired by some things in Hebrew beliefs, since we know the Ptolemies made a Greek play on the Exodus that was popular enough to cause seething among the native Egyptian populace as to have them make their own plays mocking it for making them look bad.
Greek Myth, in some form that could be recognized, existed hundreds of years before the earliest mentions of Yahweh being the supreme god in the jewish faith, so its hard to say. Additionally, all european myths, including that of the hebrew, have their roots in ancient indo-european mythology that is sadly lost to time, but we know existed long, long ago. It is also likely that many of them got it from the same ancestors or something. We'll never fully know, but that's the leading theory at the minute. Could be right or wrong.

As for the Exodus, given that we know such an event never actually occurred in real life, I'd say its understandable why the egyptians would've been quite upset with the play, and sought to mock it.:kobeha
So like so many things with "Greeks and Homos" we may have gotten a skewered version of it that was corrupted by later Roman sources to make them look bad?
Oh, we absolutely did. Not even just by Romans, as they didn't play as strong of a part in that one, but rather from so-called 'experts' in more modern times, who botched their translation(whether intentionally or not) which led to their seeming to be much more gay shit then there actually was in the mythos/religion of Hellenism.
 

NostalgiaFan

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Greek Myth, in some form that could be recognized, existed hundreds of years before the earliest mentions of Yahweh being the supreme god in the jewish faith, so its hard to say.
Yahweh was mentioned as early as the Late Bronze age and while not the head deity as there are other gods mentioned to exist alongside him he is mentioned as the one that rules over the people of Israel. Not sure on the oldest mention of Zeus but I think they were too separate at that time to really have taken influence from the other. what you say here
Additionally, all european myths, including that of the hebrew, have their roots in ancient indo-european mythology that is sadly lost to time, but we know existed long, long ago. It is also likely that many of them got it from the same ancestors or something. We'll never fully know, but that's the leading theory at the minute. Could be right or wrong.
makes more sense as they could both have a similar root due to their Indo-European heritage.
As for the Exodus, given that we know such an event never actually occurred in real life, I'd say its understandable why the egyptians would've been quite upset with the play, and sought to mock it.:kobeha
Well not in the exact way but we do know that the Hyksos had Canaanite origins which many scholars have theorized makes them related to the Jews and their expulsion and later migration back to the Levant during the times of the Bronze Age collapse is said to have been a possible influence on the story of Exodus.
Oh, we absolutely did. Not even just by Romans, as they didn't play as strong of a part in that one, but rather from so-called 'experts' in more modern times, who botched their translation(whether intentionally or not) which led to their seeming to be much more gay shit then there actually was in the mythos/religion of Hellenism.
Would not surprise me as despite the huge obsession with it, Homosexuality was not as commonly shown on Greek artwork and when it was it was less Butt-sex and more handjobs and thighjobs because even the ancient Greeks thought intercourse between men was gross, and they would have been wise since anal leads to STDs more often than most forms of sex. :risitas
 

Derpmaster9000

Balor Béimnech
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Yahweh was mentioned as early as the Late Bronze age and while not the head deity as there are other gods mentioned to exist alongside him he is mentioned as the one that rules over the people of Israel. Not sure on the oldest mention of Zeus but I think they were too separate at that time to really have taken influence from the other.
Zeus' earliest mention was more like mid-Bronze age, potentially even earlier than that, but around that period, he wasn't the head god either. Poseidon was. :mjlol
makes more sense as they could both have a similar root due to their Indo-European heritage.
Yeah, I lean more towards this personally, myself.
Well not in the exact way but we do know that the Hyksos had Canaanite origins which many scholars have theorized makes them related to the Jews and their expulsion and later migration back to the Levant during the times of the Bronze Age collapse is said to have been a possible influence on the story of Exodus.
The jews of the time didn't help themselves in this manner, by framing themselves as entirely separate from the Canaanites and other such things. And its more of a theory these days, as more and more scholars, given the evidence, believe the Canaanites were indeed either the jews themselves, before they were called that, their ancestors, or were the original group the jews were part of before they broke away for one reason or another.
Would not surprise me as despite the huge obsession with it, Homosexuality was not as commonly shown on Greek artwork and when it was it was less Butt-sex and more handjobs and thighjobs because even the ancient Greeks thought intercourse between men was gross, and they would have been wise since anal leads to STDs more often than most forms of sex. :risitas
There's hardly any homo stuff on Greek artwork. Much of what is called it, is simply men being naked around each other with nothing actually happening, while others are 'perceived' to be homosexual based on the word of a scholar from decades ago, who was degenerate enough to see sex in things where it wasn't.

Sodomy was also a crime in Ancient Athens and Sparta, punishable by death, or by being sodomized yourself with a huge, hard fruit to mark your shame(which usually led to death anyway, since I don't think said person was allowed to have it removed.) There's even a myth from one poet, where Zeus has individual divine spirits becoming part of man, and has the last, which represents shame, going in the backdoor, and she literally tells him that if anything goes in, instead of simply going out, she's getting the fuck out of there immediately, which is essentially saying that those who practice anal(which I suspect was primarily aimed at homosexual men) were utterly shameless.:mjlol
 
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