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OBD Convo #58: We are the Heroes of Justice

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When you're writing a PM to someone on this board for over a week and suddenly your computer fucks up and resets at the last minute and you have to rewrite that shit all over again:

pizza dbs GIF

Angry Fox Tv GIF by Hell's Kitchen
 


Masashi Kishimoto: My childhood wasn't all that happy. It may have sounded like it was all good in my journal entries in the manga volumes, but that was in order to make it interesting for the readers. Like any person, I've had hardships in my life. I was not the centre of anyone's attention in school, rather sitting on the outskirts. I didn't do well in everything. I didn't excel in studies nor sports. So I can understand Naruto's feelings of being an underdog. I don't really like people who are too perfect. [laughs]
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So basically, the reason why Naruto has been consistently called an underdog despite nothing at all really shows that Naruto is an underdog in any conceivable fashion... is because the dude self-inserted the entire time...

Which legit makes the Naruto/Sasuke rivalry even more fucked up than it already is considering what he has stated he has taken parallels from in his life...
 
Hmm… nah

Naruto was pretty underperforming on his own throughout Part 1, almost always needing Kurama to bail hims out fighting against otherwise superior opponents like Haku and Neji or getting in a free shot against opponents that were handing him his ass throughout the fight in the case of Kiba and Kabuto

Kishi definitely nailed the underdog part of Naruto throughout the first series and even the first few arcs with Shippuden where I’d even argue he got downgraded to just being an ineffectual wuss until he learned Rasenshuriken
 
Biggest complaint I got with Naruto is that most of his fights are incredibly boring, especially when you compare them to the likes of more hand to hand capable characters like Neji, Rock Lee, and Sauce

By Shippuden, all he does is spam and one-shot with whatever Rasengan variant
 
Astaro said:
Hmm… nah

Naruto was pretty underperforming on his own throughout Part 1, almost always needing Kurama to bail hims out fighting against otherwise superior opponents like Haku and Neji or getting in a free shot against opponents that were handing him his ass throughout the fight in the case of Kiba and Kabuto

Kishi definitely nailed the underdog part of Naruto throughout the first series and even the first few arcs with Shippuden where I’d even argue he got downgraded to just being an ineffectual wuss until he learned Rasenshuriken
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Yeah, you are kinda missing the forests for the tree...
My entire point isn't even towards whether or not Naruto is an underdog character, the point is that Kishimoto self-inserted as Naruto Uzumaki.
 
Xhominid The Apex said:
Yeah, you are kinda missing the forests for the tree...
My entire point isn't even towards whether or not Naruto is an underdog character, the point is that Kishimoto self-inserted as Naruto Uzumaki.
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Pretty much every writer bases at least a little of their own life experience into their writing

Even self-inserts of the writer can be done well so long as they still read like their own character and not just a form of escapism
 
Astaro said:
Pretty much every writer bases at least a little of their own life experience into their writing

Even self-inserts of the writer can be done well so long as they still read like their own character and not just a form of escapism
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You are somehow still refusing to understand what I'm saying despite everything I put up about Naruto previously so let me make it clearer:

Masashi Kishimoto self inserted as Naruto Uzumaki.
Masashi Kishimoto has stated in interviews that the rivalry between Naruto and Sasuke is based off his blow out with his twin brother who is also a mangaka.
It's all but implied he then inserted his twin brother as Sasuke.
 
Xhominid The Apex said:
You are somehow still refusing to understand what I'm saying despite everything I put up about Naruto previously so let me make it clearer:

Masashi Kishimoto self inserted as Naruto Uzumaki.
Masashi Kishimoto has stated in interviews that the rivalry between Naruto and Sasuke is based off his blow out with his twin brother who is also a mangaka.
It's all but implied he then inserted his twin brother as Sasuke.
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Yeah that part with Sasuke is a bit weird.

I think it’s kind of in bad taste to get family involved like that but otherwise, the above what I said still stands.

Self-insert like characters can still be handled well
 
Now let me actually say my actual opinion on this before I have to basically put Astaro on the Moon so he can see the Earth and not the ant on the log in the middle of the Amazon:

Naruto as an underdog character... never really worked because in context and in execution, Kishimoto didn't know what made Goku work and believed Goku was talentless when he wasn't and that's how Naruto was implemented. It also doesn't work because Naruto stops being an underdog due to Kurama's existence basically consistently giving him free Chakra with the drawbacks only truly happening in Shippuden.
The problem on top of that is that Naruto should have longed stopped being an underdog because he was never like Kenichi in the first place. There's nothing wrong with having absurd levels of power within you or an evil being giving you power at a cost but Naruto goes halfassed on both of those so it feels like Naruto doesn't really have any real issues or anything outside of... well, Shadow Clone Jutsu and later the Rasengan. It's funny to me because we never call Ichigo an underdog after awhile but we still call Naruto an underdog for far, far less.
 
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