Omni-Man & Invincible (TV) vs Thor & Hulk (MCU)

[ChaosTheory123]

I don't think that's the thing Gordo is mentioning when he brings that up. It's more the NATURE of how it's pretty evident that the writers didn't truly pay attention combined with the later offerings doesn't really gel to that.
i.e. It comes off more of an outlier.

I literally make fun of Nasu letting the crossover get away from him pre-FGO because he had an Arcueid that could drop the moon be incapable of killing Nvrnqsr Chaos, yet he's something he heavily implied Excalibur could yeet even before we learned what we did from FGO about his overall nature

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

I literally make fun of Nasu letting the crossover get away from him pre-FGO because he had an Arcueid that could drop the moon be incapable of killing Nvrnqsr Chaos, yet he's something he heavily implied Excalibur could yeet even before we learned what we did from FGO about his overall nature

Yeah, that does make sense as a counter-argument since it comes off like that would also be an outlier on both ends...

 

[Gordo]

???

By this alien logic most of Dragon Ball's powerscaling can be thrown out the window as we know for a fact Toriyama routinely forgets details and is often reminded of them by fans like Oda

Hell, makes sense with how often he regurgitates threats like destroying a planet as if it means anything even all the way into the Tournament of Power. Mind you, that one is about as hands off as it gets with Toriyama's canon and it still ends up being a late game fuck up on the part of continuity and escalating threat.

No, the movies each have different writers and because of that stuff that was previously established tend to get retconned later on. That was my point

Didn't the bifrost thing basically have it warp space to such an extent it swallowed stars or some bullshit?

Much like how we get around FTL KE by defaulting to the celestial body's GBE or orbital KE being overpowered, this doesn't really strike me as any different

If its stars moving, it seems pretty cut and dry that its an expression of the power of the bifrost. Anything beyond that I don't follow the MCU closely enough to be concrete about.

I’d have to see the clip again because I don’t recall it ever doing that. From what we’re told, Bifrost is just a wormhole. It doesn’t suck things up like that

 

[ChaosTheory123]

No, the movies each have different writers and because of that stuff that was previously established tend to get retconned later on

Having different writers just doesn't cut it, that's a problem in numerous multimedia franchises including the likes of Star Wars, Nasuverse, and even Dragon Ball nowadays (albeit a far more muted example).

If a retcon occurs, it needs to be acknowledged explicitly. Anything else is an assumption.

I’d have to see the clip again because I don’t recall it ever doing that. From what we’re told, Bifrost is just a wormhole. It doesn’t suck things up

Mind you, its been a bit, but I vaguely recall that being the big deal regarding what the bifrost was doing when activated.

Yeah, that does make sense as a counter-argument since it comes off like that would also be an outlier on both ends...

Sometimes we just miss the forest for the trees. I'm just good at keeping comparable instances of shit straight in my head.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Sometimes we just miss the forest for the trees. I'm just good at keeping comparable instances of shit straight in my head.

That usually happens for me but in this instance, I haven't been all that major in Tsukihime so it's easier for me to miss stuff like that.

 

[Edward Nygma]

Much like how we get around FTL KE by defaulting to the celestial body's GBE or orbital KE being overpowered, this doesn't really strike me as any different

Sorry for the double-quote, Chaos. I just wanted to highlight this as the entirety of my argument/point.

@Gordo
At the end of Thor 1, Loki leaves the Bifrost on, beaming into space, for several minutes. This causes nearby stars to start being moved around. Here's the calc.

---Space Laser---

As @GoldenHeart points out in his meta thread; after being active for several minutes, the Bifrost begins to warp space and pull in stars. Thor, of course, breaks the Bifrost at the end of Thor 1. Fenrir and Hulk also take large chunks out of it while fighting in Ragnarok.

There might be some arguments about the exact nature of this singularity. But whatever it is, it can't generate more energetic effects (ie moving stars) than the event that created it. So it's safe to say that, over the course of the singularity's formation, the Bifrost channels the grand total GBE of the moving stars.

tl;dr: Stars < Singularity < Biforst, regardless of what the singularity is.

The bridge's durability would be something like the X * Y / Z = Bifrost durability in joules per second

X = Smallest star GBE
Y = Number of stars
Z = Time the Bifrost beam was active

The Bifrost is active for 390 seconds. I can't find a clip on YT. They all start right after Thor arrives, a couple minutes after Loki powers up the beam. It's also near impossible to get an exact count on these stars - especially with the debris flying around in frame - but my recounts average around half-a-dozen in motion.

GBE of the smallest star = 9.998 ninatons * 6 / 390 = 206.85 tenatons/second (Large Planet level)

Add as many stars as you want. You'd need 390 to get out of Large Planet level (ya know, cause division), and there clearly aren't nearly 400 stars in motion.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

@Edward Nygma If you are wondering why I didn't address your argument, CT brought in an obvious one that refuted my point entirely.

 

[Edward Nygma]

@Edward Nygma If you are wondering why I didn't address your argument, CT brought in an obvious one that refuted my point entirely.

Yeah, I figured my bitch-ass tactically brilliant move of "tag a smarter debater" had worked out.

 

[Edward Nygma]

Team Avengers DC
1) Tesseract durability: 276.7 teratons (I've been misquoting this as 50tt for, like, years

)
2) Thor tanks neutron star beam: 392.3 teratons (VSB calc, looks like it's probably in the ballpark at least)
3) Thanos fractures and throws a moon: Probably >1exaton. I don't see any good numbers for either part of the feat. Nor do I see a way to get them, not without just assuming Earth-like properties for everything involved. Someone did get a few gigatons for the one part that hit Tony. And you could easily multiple that several times over.
4) Power Stone razes a planet: 1.7 ninatons
5) Bifrost output per second: 206.8 tenatons

Team Viltrumite DC
1) Nolan stops an Asteroid the size of Texas: 219 petatons - 84.1 exatons
2) *Nolan + 11 Viltrumites blow up a planet: 4.7 zettatons (Earth GBE / 12)
*vague and off-screen

I could list a couple more for the V-team, but it would start dropping off into the megaton range or lower. Like a lot of the stuff during Mark's and Nolan's big fight.

I'm kind of thinking that the MCU team has the edge in DC. In fact, I'm fairly confident that, given the obvious gap between him and his dad, Mark would get exploded by a serious hit from Thor.

 

[Qinglong]

Is there a reason there's no answer in the first link for using an emissivity of 1 and not also using .92? it only changes to 1.06524290147E+24 w/jps instead but w/e

 

[Solar Sailor]

No, the movies each have different writers and because of that stuff that was previously established tend to get retconned later on. That was my point

This happens alot in comics

Problem is? it actually has to be acknowledged as a retcon, or at least show a fundamental contradiction

if a previous movie establishes you need X force to break the cosmic cube? And then the other movie later shows him breaking it?

that’s not a contradiction

 

[Solar Sailor]

Granted, I always thought those stars moving was a distortion of their light, because it’s literally transporting the laser to destroy Jotunheim’s planet but it’s obviously not causing the destruction like a Death Star.

 

[Edward Nygma]

Is there a reason there's no answer in the first link for using an emissivity of 1 and not also using .92? it only changes to 1.06524290147E+24 w/jps instead but w/e

Doesn't seem like it. It's possible Galo just never saw that correction. The comments are in a janky order, Galo's bottom comment isn't the newest. The correction comment came 5 days after Galo's.

That change knocks almost 20 teratons off the total number, bringing it down from 276.7 to 254.5. So, that's not nothing.

 

[OrlandoSky]

To add on the mentioned Infinity stone feats: The power stone life-wiping a planet's surface was calced at large planet level I think and the reality stone was gonna lifewipe erode nine planets....which somehow would cause a chain reaction that would plunge the universe in total blackout darkness, Thor 2 was fucking weird

Either way both stones power were blocked and countered by two different Avengers, MK50 Tony and Thor respectively.

 

[OrlandoSky]

Sorry for the double-quote, Chaos. I just wanted to highlight this as the entirety of my argument/point.

@Gordo
At the end of Thor 1, Loki leaves the Bifrost on, beaming into space, for several minutes. This causes nearby stars to start being moved around. Here's the calc.

200+ Tenatons would be Star+ Level (Nearly reaching Large Star Level)

I would like to add that the way I view how the first Thor was written seemed to imply that Asgard was in it's own pocket dimension (like in the comics) and the bifrost was breaking through it's wall, that's why at the end of the movie when it fell and broke through the bottom there was a wormhole that Loki fell in. Granted this cosmology this thrown out the window in the next two films as the MCU heads wanted to push Thor further and further away from the first two films so I'm not sure how it would affect the feat if at all.