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Touma and his Interactions with other Attacks

Uh for the Shiki vs Touma stuff.

Touma has a relativistic feat in the first volume and quite of few of them later, so he absolutely should be fast enough to keep up with Shiki's knife slashes.

Main problem is that even with IB negating negating lines of death on Touma's right hand, ib is a normal right hand in durability, and putting your hand in front of a knife is a good way to get your fingers chopped off, so yeah, Shiki can just chop Touma's fingers and hand apart with normal knife skills alone.
 
IB was able to influence Aleister Crowley's non-existent magic. Aleister creates non-existent weapons, but which are real to the target's mind. For example, he can create a big bang bomb that destroys the victim's mind (and at the same time the body, since Aleister Crowley uses the concept of a voodoo doll, firmly linking the mind and body). IB can interact with nonexistent things.
 
But in this case, spiritual tripping is explicitly a technique to make an illusion real. So even if the weapon itself doesn't exist, the effect for those who are affected by the illusion is explicitly real. All IB needs to do is negate the effect which is real, not the actual illusion, which is fake.
 
Nah, the distortion was a side effect of Awaki overtaxing herself by using the most amount of mass she could teleport at once. The teleport itself was negated too

Also, things like fate aren’t things that physically exist yet IB negate them since Volume 1. Go Beyond shouldn’t be something Touma can’t negate
 
Calamity is essentially the negative aspect of Fate in Jojo and Go Beyond’s nonexistence lets it bypass Wonder of U’s Calamity Manipulation.

Go Beyond Bubbles are nonexistent in the truest sense. They don’t just lack substance, they don’t just pass through things like intangibility, they are infinitely thin lines spinning in place.

If Imagine Breaker is like a Natural Law in and of itself in ToAru that still shouldn’t prevent Go Beyond from bypassing it since it bypassed Calamity.
 
And still supernatural. Also to be specifiic, their not existent, just infinitely close to zero mass to them

Go Beyond defies Calamities, IB ignores the laws of cause and effect, neither has precedence over the over talking about this and if anything, I’d argue Imagine Breaker being more impressive than this anyway

So it comes down to Go Beyond still being a supernatural force in the end against IB
 
We may have to agree to disagree. Since to me I would think Imagine Breaker would need a feat of negating something that bypassed a Natural Law due to nonexistence to say it can negate Go Beyond.
 
xenos5 said:
We may have to agree to disagree. Since to me I would think Imagine Breaker would need a feat of negating something that bypassed a Natural Law due to nonexistence to say it can negate Go Beyond.
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Demanding something that specific is ridiculous, especially with the kind of logic JoJo runs on

It doesn’t transcend anything to argue it’s got precedence over IB and it’s a supernatural attack with force behind it way weaker than even Misaka’s Railgun
 

It's testing IB's limits in a very different way than other attacks. In that how would IB even detect it? Go Beyond Bubbles are invisible even to Stand Users.

And the force is irrelevant since it's hax. It will deal the same damage to anyone who can't resist it all the same.
 
xenos5 said:
It's testing IB's limits in a very different way than other attacks. In that how would IB even detect it? Go Beyond Bubbles are invisible even to Stand Users.
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You mean Touma will detect, and in which case, Touma’s been able to react to literal telefrags

xenos5 said:
And the force is irrelevant since it's hax. It will deal the same damage to anyone who can't resist it all the same.
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Imagine Breaker has worked on intangible / durability ignoring attacks on several occasions
 
Astaro said:
You mean Touma will detect, and in which case, Touma’s been able to react to literal telefrags



Imagine Breaker has worked on intangible / durability ignoring attacks on several occasions
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Out of curiosity are there abilities that completely erase one's presence in ToAru? To the point even characters with extreme sensory abilities can't detect them at all? Like NNT Ban's Zero Sign, for example.

Cause detecting someone while they're using that would be more along the lines of what i'm thinking of. There are levels of undetectability like there are levels to every hax. And with a power system like Stands where they are all undetectable to normal humans to begin with, I find Go Beyond Bubbles being undetectable even to Stand Users becomes much more impressive as a result.

Reacting to a telefrag is great but teleportation uses a form of energy. IIRC from what I recall about ToAru don't all Espers utilize AIM Diffusion Fields? So I would imagine if you can detect the Field the Esper utilizes you can figure out where they are aiming their ability.
 
xenos5 said:
Out of curiosity are there abilities that completely erase one's presence in ToAru? To the point even characters with extreme sensory abilities can't detect them at all? Like NNT Ban's Zero Sign, for example.
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Too lazy to think of one right now
Except that wasn’t an Esper power, that was Othinus’ crossbow and Touma reacted to an attack before it even began with precog in that scan. I.e. nothing to have been able to sense until after it already happened and he still detected it anyway
 
To be specific, that's more of an ambient energy they produce passively, rather than the actual energy they utilize for their abilities (they don't really "use" any energy iirc).

But I don't know if that changes anything.
 
Astaro said:
Too lazy to think of one right now
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If you do think of one later, feel free to bring it up.
Is it fair to assume magic users like Othinus and their attacks also give off an energy that other magic users can detect? If that is what Touma's precog is detecting, I doubt the non-existent Go Beyond Bubbles would give off anything like that so it may not activate to begin with.
 
None for that one. The only thing to detect for that attack was the whole section of space already being split apart by the attack ignoring the 3 dimensions to appear anywhere
 
..probably not?

Technically speaking, the "explanation" for Touma's precog is him having immense combat experience and thus he's able to read physical tells/ambient energy from both espers and magicians (which is why he struggles against Rensa, a cyborg who turns off her emotions/tells or some shit idk I haven't read the volume in a bit)..

But this is obviously not accurate because a lot of the times it's just straight up future sight, rather than him reading their movements.

NT9 (which is when Touma "fights" Othinus) is full of stuff like this happening.
 
Astaro said:
None for that one. The only thing to detect for that attack was the whole section of space already being split apart by the attack ignoring the 3 dimensions to appear anywhere
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If it is just straight up future sight he could just be reacting to a vision of wounds appearing on his body regardless if he understands how it would've happened. But yeah, it seems we're getting pretty in the weeds at this point.

This has been fun
 
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