Transformers feats/discussion

[DarkestGlory]

Thanks mate, if it ain’t too much to ask for would you happen to have the scan for the idea of death coming from him? Never heard of that one before, unless it’s the one where he says that it among other concepts are merely facsimiles of his will.

Unicron would be above the concepts of space, time, mathematics etc. by extension of being above even Unspace right? It’s also where distance and scale become irrelevant so I assume he’s above those concepts as well.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

^it's that scan yeah, "petty facsimile of my will" quite literally means a poor copy of himself/his desires

And yeah he (and Primus, Chronarchitect, Gaea, and presumably Physis) would be beyond space and time, the latter ie explicitly said outright in the TFCC text stories, and space can reasonably be assumed both from the Astral Plane lore as well as the fact that Unspace explicitly isn't space, and Unicron is capable of existing there with no ill effects (despite the Elder Gods' hype they haven't ever tried him as far as we know, they've only messed with Ramjet and only after he got disconnected temporarily from Unicron)

Unspace is said in Ramjet's bio to be where "ordered mathematics are nonsense" and thus far the only beings to have mastered it are Unicron and The Fallen, the latter is an assumption but it's based on him being trapped there for ages and not getting fucked up by Elder Gods like Ramjet did. Ramjet can't traverse the place at all without Unicron's power.

 

[DarkestGlory]

Nice, thanks. Also, does Unicron have any examples of law manipulation, power nullification, existence erasure, reality warping or acasuality? I know he likely has causality manipulation because of Vector Prime’s bio thing, which should to some extent extend to unicron as well, but I’m not sure about Acasuality. I’ve seen people and VSBW state that he exists outside of cause and effect without substantiation.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Absolutely has acausality both from scaling to Vector Prime but also the Alternity have causality manipulation and they’re pretty useless against him, the transtech saying he exists beyond linear time, his tfcc bio stating he has no beginning or end
In the same comic we learn about Vector being able to manipulate causality he’s said to be so insignificant Unicron doesn’t notice him


Reality warping is weird, because he’s stated to be able to do it several times but we rarely, if ever, actually see it. In Omega point his species are said to be “omnipotent” which, obviously don’t take that at face value, but essentially they could do anything relative to their series.

The beginning, strictly speaking, was the end. The end of an entire universe, one that had existed long before any modern measurement of time began. It was the twilight of the gods, beings of pure energy that had grown to a point where nothing was beyond them. They were omnipotent, almighty, boundless. But, as it turned out, not all-seeing.
Otherwise, they might have noticed that one of their number had taken to calling himself the devourer of worlds. Though as it happened, worlds were merely an aperitif to the banquet that was to follow. Its name was Unicron, and its terrible hunger drove it to wipe all life from this old Universe. It consumed its fellow gods (not immortal either), planets, galaxies, even space itself, until there was nothing. Satiated, it finally slept, alone in the void.
But tenaciously, life hung on, and through a massive effort of will it began a subatomic chain reaction that built and expanded, gathering gaseous momentum with each explosion of primal forces. Until ultimately, it birthed a new Universe, created new life. And with this creation came a protector, a counter-force to the threat of Unicron. Its name was Primus. However, it soon became apparent that this fragile new universe was not meant to contain beings as powerful and elemental as Unicron and Primus. Their battles laid waste to countless fledgling star systems, destroying the very life Primus had been created to protect. And so, a plan was borne. One that would, if successful, both end the current threat of Unicron, and, ultimately, safeguard the universe for generations to come.

This is a retelling of the Marvel origin basically. I wouldn't get hung up on it referring to a single universe too much, as this origin has been retconned several times to mean the birth of the multiverse. Even the DK Ultimate guide actually says Unicron and Primus existed across countless realities during their initial fight, so this retcon has been around since the early 2000s.

Stated to distort reality in this TFCC Story Withered Hope

Also he can actually use his powers to create things but chooses not to. Dark Lio Convoy in a recent manga used it to rejuvenate a planet and stop earth from exploding, and iirc in Superlink/Energon they use his energy to fill another universe with life or something. Also above thing about him being able to create time.

Regarding Law Manipulation or Power Nullification, the former depends on how literally you take his statement of being "the collapse of the natural order" and Forest Lee stating the rules of the multiverse (physics I believe) were shaped by the 13. I don't know if I recall an example of outright Power Nullification, Unicron's main thing is being just inexplicably immune to basically any method of killing him permanently (even the Star Saber used several times failed to kill him, and while weakened multiversal variants of him still exist Post-Shroud) or manipulating reality around him. Inexplicable as in the actual canon explanation is "he could never be totally destroyed" with little reason given beyond that. Ramjet's also said to be able to warp reality and he gets his power from Unicron. Unfortunately I don't think we really see it used though.

Existence Erasure I would think yes, based on him destroying his own race of abstract conceptual entities and being able to destroy every other plane of existence.

 

[Paxton]

Absolutely has acausality both from scaling to Vector Prime but also the Alternity have causality manipulation and they’re pretty useless against him, the transtech saying he exists beyond linear time, his tfcc bio stating he has no beginning or end
In the same comic we learn about Vector being able to manipulate causality he’s said to be so insignificant Unicron doesn’t notice him


Reality warping is weird, because he’s stated to be able to do it several times but we rarely, if ever, actually see it. In Omega point his species are said to be “omnipotent” which, obviously don’t take that at face value, but essentially they could do anything relative to their series.

This is a retelling of the Marvel origin basically. I wouldn't get hung up on it referring to a single universe too much, as this origin has been retconned several times to mean the birth of the multiverse. Even the DK Ultimate guide actually says Unicron and Primus existed across countless realities during their initial fight, so this retcon has been around since the early 2000s.

Stated to distort reality in this TFCC Story Withered Hope

Also he can actually use his powers to create things but chooses not to. Dark Lio Convoy in a recent manga used it to rejuvenate a planet and stop earth from exploding, and iirc in Superlink/Energon they use his energy to fill another universe with life or something. Also above thing about him being able to create time.

Regarding Law Manipulation or Power Nullification, the former depends on how literally you take his statement of being "the collapse of the natural order" and Forest Lee stating the rules of the multiverse (physics I believe) were shaped by the 13. I don't know if I recall an example of outright Power Nullification, Unicron's main thing is being just inexplicably immune to basically any method of killing him permanently (even the Star Saber used several times failed to kill him, and while weakened multiversal variants of him still exist Post-Shroud) or manipulating reality around him. Inexplicable as in the actual canon explanation is "he could never be totally destroyed" with little reason given beyond that. Ramjet's also said to be able to warp reality and he gets his power from Unicron. Unfortunately I don't think we really see it used though.

Existence Erasure I would think yes, based on him destroying his own race of abstract conceptual entities and being able to destroy every other plane of existence.

boundless unicron

 

[Paxton]

Unicron

Unicron is the eternal arch-enemy of his twin brother Primus. Also known as "the Lord of Chaos", "the Chaos Bringer" and "the Planet Eater", he is dedicated to consuming the Transformers multiverse, is massive form is powered by the consumption of planets, moons, stars, and even the very fabric...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Dante (Shin Megami Tensei)

Dante is a demon hunter who is initially tasked with hunting the many demons that have infested Tokyo, including the Demi-Fiend, by Louis Cyphre after the Conception. Armed with his trusty pistols Ebony and Ivory and his demonic sword Rebellion, he cuts swathes through hordes of demons with...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Unicron bros... we got too cocky

 

[Arcee]

I'm pretty sure the Unicron Singularity causing every single continuity error and "space-time anomalies" (AKA animation errors) would also count as reality warping.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

I probably could get 1a or something Unicron accepted there now since the botcon script for Universe says "countless dimensions" and as much as I want to authoral intent it, it's unlikely it's talking about universes since they mention those separately in the script.

(And yes the script is canon)

But I just kinda...don't care to. VSB not that interesting to me, it's more fascinating imo that the higher dimensions in transformers contain universes that dwarf the lower ones. That's some potentially Dark Tower level shit

 

[Paxton]

That reminds me, does Galactus predate Unicron or is it the other way around?

 

[OtherGalaxy]

That reminds me, does Galactus predate Unicron or is it the other way around?

He does, although the initial Unicron design by Floro Dery for the movie allegedly is just based on...Satan, not Galactus, and also an earlier planet robot toy Takara had been developing. However Simon Furman when he started writing the comic version of Unicron has openly admitted he wanted to make the character more cosmic because of Galactus, which is where all the universal destruction started showing up.

 

[Paxton]

Galactus is still ducking the 1v1 requests from Unicron

 

[DarkestGlory]

his tfcc bio stating he has no beginning or end

the Alternity have causality manipulation and they’re pretty useless against him

Forest Lee stating the rules of the multiverse (physics I believe) were shaped by the 13

Thanks mate, do you have the scans or quotes for these? I know Alternity have causality manip but I haven’t seen it be ineffective on unicron

 

[OtherGalaxy]

I'm ngl I think with the way the dimensions and such work you can make a case for Peak Unicron at least being a match or more for any high tier marvel guy now

even without those, Galaxy Force scaling+True form Unicron actually being stronger than the one who fought Primus at the beginning of time will get you far.

Both of those are already literally infinitely stronger than the Primus that stopped the Grand Black Hole

 

[Arcee]

Marvel is fodder to Unicron since he scales above Robo Capers Grimlock and Soundwave.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Thanks mate, do you have the scans or quotes for these? I know Alternity have causality manip but I haven’t seen it be ineffective on unicron

For the first two sure do, for the latter I don't but it's because the Alternity and Unicron have never appeared in a story together, so it's an assumption on my part based on Unicron already being>Vector's causality manipulation, the 13 being generally superior to the Alternity, and no mention of the Alternity ever doing anything to Unicron or stopping him.

I think I misremembered the Alternity quote though, it was actually Probability Manipulation they have

they do have a lot of nonlinear weapons in general though so there might just be some overlap

 

[OtherGalaxy]

gotta say transformers is extremely "fun" regarding figuring all of this out because they never outright say any of this. It's all based on string on a wall tinfoil hat level piecing things together written decades apart

 

[DarkestGlory]

Thanks man. By the way, where is that Alternity scan from? I had access to some of them through some website but I lost it so now I have none.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Thanks man. By the way, where is that Alternity scan from? I had access to some of them through some website but I lost it so now I have none.

I believe I got the majority of them from random tfw2005 posts but I posted all of them I had on the first page of this thread

 

[DarkestGlory]

Oh alright, I’ll check em out. Also, I asked this earlier, but I see VSBW states that unicron exists outside of cause and affect. Is that true?

 

[OtherGalaxy]

don’t know that that’s ever directly said, if I had to guess they’re extrapolating that from Vector not being able to do much to him or something