Transformers feats/discussion

[grillmaster]

ayo wait i just reread this again and i realized, it turned the optimus prime 4000,000 pounds typo and made it real
i was confused what you meant by him being 10 times stronger without the trailer at first, i forgot that error was there
so normal optimus is 200 tons (really closer to 500 at least going by megatron throwing that dump truck while running on fumes)
then his normal form post powermaster boost is 2,000 tons
then he gets 10x stronger AGAIN, 20,000 tons
and with apex armor i suppose hed finally be 100,000 tons
god damn
edit: i remember reading somewhere that apex armor/godbomber was 5x boost on top of the super mode, i wish i could find it but im struggling rn, i know its a bit funky to use what i think was godbombers boost for the apex armor, but theyre literally the same thing translated to the US, the same way G1 Gigatron is just Overlord before they called him Overlord in the US
also cause if we're being real the ginrai body was meant for optimus anyway iirc

not me hypothetically applying these boosts to g1 cartoon prime and his 500,000 ton supertanker feat

 

[Thirteen prime]

ayo wait i just reread this again and i realized, it turned the optimus prime 4000,000 pounds typo and made it real
i was confused what you meant by him being 10 times stronger without the trailer at first, i forgot that error was there
so normal optimus is 200 tons (really closer to 500 at least going by megatron throwing that dump truck while running on fumes)
then his normal form post powermaster boost is 2,000 tons
then he gets 10x stronger AGAIN, 20,000 tons
and with apex armor i suppose hed finally be 100,000 tons
god damn
edit: i remember reading somewhere that apex armor/godbomber was 5x boost on top of the super mode, i wish i could find it but im struggling rn, i know its a bit funky to use what i think was godbombers boost for the apex armor, but theyre literally the same thing translated to the US, the same way G1 Gigatron is just Overlord before they called him Overlord in the US
also cause if we're being real the ginrai body was meant for optimus anyway iirc

I don't think that's the case 4 million pounds he could lift in basic form so it's possible, to be honest I don't think it's a typo so it's quite normal.

 

[Thirteen prime]

not me hypothetically applying these boosts to g1 cartoon prime and his 500,000 ton supertanker feat
View attachment 1129

you could compare this to Galvatron's superior Piranacon and use multipliers through it, Optimus with a combined trailer would be the height of a combiner.

 

[grillmaster]

I just now realized this somehow super late, I cant believe I didnt think about this at all for ALL THESE YEARS

Who's Who in the Transformers Universe

Unicron's bio straight up says he can devour stars
Somehow it never clicked before that Unicron > Star level
And then i only realized now

The energy of the Matrix therefore is > Unicron > Star level
Prime was point blank in the epicenter of the explosion

Of course, he was utterly decimated and he didn't live much longer afterward, but i still think its notable that anything of him survived this in the first place
He still died but its a MASSIVE durability feat imo
and i suppose if you wanted you could scale backwards from this considering super mode optimus is 10x his normal powermaster body, but do with this what you will

 

[grillmaster]

I don't think that's the case 4 million pounds he could lift in basic form so it's possible, to be honest I don't think it's a typo so it's quite normal.

it would have fit, however the thing is 200 tons makes more sense when considering the company he is in
Brawn is meant to be the second strongest Autobot, at around 99-100 tons
Devastator and Bruticus are both 200-250+ tons if i remember right
Predaking over 500 tons
Optimus would thus be around combiner level at minimum
This implies to me that 2,000 tons was originally a typo that everyone just rolled with because Optimus Prime is just That Guy and i think thats actually funnier
It makes sense that hes that strong to us now with the benefit of power creep over the course of the comic, but i think his original strength was intended to be 200 tons. he obviously got way stronger, the same way cartoon prime and megs are throwing supertankers, holding up the washington monument, and tanking dwarf star level explosions, when they almost certainly were never intended to be that strong in the beginning

 

[grillmaster]

As I said, it's hard to scale Galvatron in this fight, as he's half lobotomized and completely out of his mind, but prime still seems to be struggling
The Wreckers managed to blow half of his face off with a pathblaster (which, if i'm remembering my lore correctly, was designed to clear a path through giant asteroid fields, so not a weak weapon by any means)

Earlier in the fight however, so presumably with his sanity more intact, Galvatron rather easily deals with Scorponok, putting his fist completely through his torso in one hit

 

[OtherGalaxy]

By the way, idw Optimus seems to defeat sixshot, and as stated, he is holding back somewhat.

IDW Publishing Forums :: View topic - SIMON FURMAN - Q&A Nov/Dec 2008 - ANSWERS UP NOW!!!

gonna chalk that up to being retconned out as the Phase Sixer concept got fleshed out more
Prime definitely didn’t beat him on page (did crack the chest plate and knock him down but he had everyone teleported out after) and as the phase sixer concept was fleshed out we saw guys like Black Shadow and Overlord, who are of the exact same strength as Sixshot, could beat/kill hundreds of Optimus level guys on their own. Roberts also directly said Megatron wouldn’t have stood a chance against Overlord in a straight fight and that Phase Sixers trump anything. I guess this would have been true at the time Devastation was published but then changed by the time Wreckers and MTMTE swung around

 

[grillmaster]

gonna chalk that up to being retconned out as the Phase Sixer concept got fleshed out more
Prime definitely didn’t beat him on page (did crack the chest plate and knock him down but he had everyone teleported out after) and as the phase sixer concept was fleshed out we saw guys like Black Shadow and Overlord, who are of the exact same strength as Sixshot, could beat/kill hundreds of Optimus level guys on their own. Roberts also directly said Megatron wouldn’t have stood a chance against Overlord in a straight fight and that Phase Sixers trump anything. I guess this would have been true at the time Devastation was published but then changed by the time Wreckers and MTMTE swung around

while im no expert on IDW sadly i think i know a bit
the implication though that at least to Furman, Prime could have done better if he didn't have to worry about collateral
I would say in regards to Black Shadow, i dont necessarily think hes like worth three thousand optimus primes, but rather maybe worth three thousand normal autobots, and thus more than a match for the two standouts there, if that makes sense (Prime and Magnus are strong, but probably not equivalent to thousands of dudes on their own)

consider he also fought the Wreckers and didnt kill all of them, but half

if he is representative of the other phase sixers i would say theyre obviously above the leader tier but not so much its a thousands of times difference

 

[Thirteen prime]

gonna chalk that up to being retconned out as the Phase Sixer concept got fleshed out more
Prime definitely didn’t beat him on page (did crack the chest plate and knock him down but he had everyone teleported out after) and as the phase sixer concept was fleshed out we saw guys like Black Shadow and Overlord, who are of the exact same strength as Sixshot, could beat/kill hundreds of Optimus level guys on their own. Roberts also directly said Megatron wouldn’t have stood a chance against Overlord in a straight fight and that Phase Sixers trump anything. I guess this would have been true at the time Devastation was published but then changed by the time Wreckers and MTMTE swung around

I disagree a little, we don’t know the outcome of the battle between black shadow and plus Tarn himself, who is approximately equal to Overlord, declares that he has no chance against normal Megatron, plus ultra Magnus or the like does not correspond to Optimus’ level at all; he died from one shot of shockwave when Optimus can withstand two of these, as I understood in the comics about dark cybertron, Optimus and Megatron could improve their weapons and abilities, since Megatron easily penetrates the armor of the Dreadwing, which essentially had the same ore 13 armor as the previous Megatron, essentially these elite wars surpasses them only in destructive potential for me.

 

[grillmaster]

I would say we are given the outcome of the fight with Black Shadow, if only through the fact that over three thousand autobots were killed. It's probable that he beat Prime and Magnus, thats what the image is trying to portray after all, but I just doubt it was a thousands of times difference, as then you'd just be left wondering why didn't he just kill them too while he was at it, or at least kill Magnus, if Megatron wants to kill Prime himself or whatever
I think they probably put up a good fight, but got overwhelmed against a literal One Man Army, this Optimus resembles the one who was sitting inside the Omniglobe for years at a time processing data rather than fighting, so its possible hes not at his peak either, but that last part is just conjecture dont take my word on that, its just a theory

I also don't think Tarn is actually Phase Sixer level, but his hax, like being able to quite literally talk his enemies to death, allow him to hit well above his weight class. I'd put him around leader tier, maybe on the lower side.

 

[Thirteen prime]

Starscream was able to survive the collision with the underbase.

Which is essentially intelligent energy that is capable of erasing everything on the surface of entire planets, including the atmosphere, being at a great distance and exploding stars in a supernova explosion.

 

[Thirteen prime]

Starscream, who absorbed a small portion of the underbase's power, was able to defeat literally all the Autobots and Decepticons, threatening to destroy Tokyo and all other cities.
Optimus and Scorponok withstand the explosion of Starscream, which has already absorbed all the power of the underbase.

 

[grillmaster]

Starscream was able to survive the collision with the underbase.

Which is essentially intelligent energy that is capable of erasing everything on the surface of entire planets, including the atmosphere, being at a great distance and exploding stars in a supernova explosion.
View attachment 1133View attachment 1134View attachment 1135

this is somewhat related but only barely, ive actually always been curious about the energy needed to make stars self destruct, cause most star calcs i see are about blowing the entire thing apart
but 99% of the suns fusion happens in the core, and the pressure of the resulting fusion pushes outward, slowing the process down and creating the balance that holds the star together.

The equilibrium of a star
So, were one to project a massive amount of energy directly into the suns core, you could increase the internal pressure to insane levels, causing fusion to SPIKE by an absolutely ridiculous amount, and the star rapidly explodes outward.
But i dont know how much power that requires and i wish i did, cause this has always been cool to me
Edit: I just remembered to include this, it adds to my point; the reason our sun will become a red giant is that it begins to run out of fuel, and gravity quickly begins collapsing it, however the collapse causes even more, heavier elements to fuse and the energy of the fusion makes the sun expand

The sun will keep expanding at this point until it engulfs the inner planets, and then its outer layers will just keep going and dissipate into space, leaving behind a white dwarf

 

[grillmaster]

this is somewhat related but only barely, ive actually always been curious about the energy needed to make stars self destruct, cause most star calcs i see are about blowing the entire thing apart
but 99% of the suns fusion happens in the core, and the pressure of the resulting fusion pushes outward, slowing the process down and creating the balance that holds the star together.
View attachment 1144
The equilibrium of a star
So, were one to project a massive amount of energy directly into the suns core, you could increase the internal pressure to insane levels, causing fusion to SPIKE by an absolutely ridiculous amount, and the star rapidly explodes outward.
But i dont know how much power that requires and i wish i did, cause this has always been cool to me
Edit: I just remembered to include this, it adds to my point; the reason our sun will become a red giant is that it begins to run out of fuel, and gravity quickly begins collapsing it, however the collapse causes even more, heavier elements to fuse and the energy of the fusion makes the sun expand

The sun will keep expanding at this point until it engulfs the inner planets, and then its outer layers will just keep going and dissipate into space, leaving behind a white dwarf

this is a huge tangent but i can relate it back because we could use whatever value causes this to find how much energy the Underbase must be emitting
actually im curious could Underbase Starscream have fought Unicron
Both could possibly be star level, though im certain Unicron is, less sure about the Underbase
I think Unicron has an advantage based on the whole "IN THE REALM OF EVIL I HAVE NO EQUAL" thing

 

[OtherGalaxy]

while im no expert on IDW sadly i think i know a bit
the implication though that at least to Furman, Prime could have done better if he didn't have to worry about collateral
I would say in regards to Black Shadow, i dont necessarily think hes like worth three thousand optimus primes, but rather maybe worth three thousand normal autobots, and thus more than a match for the two standouts there, if that makes sense (Prime and Magnus are strong, but probably not equivalent to thousands of dudes on their own)

consider he also fought the Wreckers and didnt kill all of them, but half

if he is representative of the other phase sixers i would say theyre obviously above the leader tier but not so much its a thousands of times difference

Maybe not thousands of times but he definitely manhandled Magnus and Prime, basically any Point One Percenter is already several cuts below a Phase Sixer. even during Furman era Sixshot was still standing after being crushed by Metroplex (though the stomp put him out of commission for a bit) and the Titans are basically hugely beyond everybody else

I disagree a little, we don’t know the outcome of the battle between black shadow and plus Tarn himself, who is approximately equal to Overlord, declares that he has no chance against normal Megatron, plus ultra Magnus or the like does not correspond to Optimus’ level at all; he died from one shot of shockwave

we see a whole fleet of people jumping down just to fight Black Shadow and Magnus being choked out and Prime upoercutted. With backup 3000 strong Prime couldn’t do anything to him.

Overlord not being able to beat Megatron has a VERY specific plot reason: the achilles virus Megatron put into his brain to stop him from ever figuring out how to beat him. His losses in the gladiator pits were long before he became a Phase Sixer and bonded with Ununtrium. Roberts is the same writer who came up with all of the aforementioned concepts, and he’s the one who said Megatron stands no chance against Overlord in a straight fight.

I don’t recall Magnus ever dying or even fighting Shockwave in IDW. He does die once to Megatron during the Gloaming flashbacks, but as Megatron has also killed Optimus I don’t know that this highlights much of anything. Optimus doesn’t have dramatically higher showings than Magnus in IDW barring one off stuff like the Matrix killing D-Void. Tarn is a special case as 1. he has hax that lets him paralyze and kill anyone. 2. he was strong enough that Prowl thought he WAS a Phase Sixer. He’s a special case and nobody can be cleanly compared to him. He wasn’t outright stronger than Overlord in any case and he beat black shadow with his entire team not 1v1.

when Optimus can withstand two of these, as I understood in the comics about dark cybertron, Optimus and Megatron could improve their weapons and abilities, since Megatron easily penetrates the armor of the Dreadwing, which essentially had the same ore 13 armor as the previous Megatron, essentially these elite wars surpasses them only in destructive potential for me.

That same Megatron from Dark Cybertron got ripped in half by Galvatron who had no amps of any kind or special reinforcements like Ununtrium or Ore 13 and later took Optimus, Soundwave, and Arcee to kill. Thats what it took for a high tier guy to go down. I’m not buying that Point One Percenters are on par with Phase Sixers at all when barring Optimus and Sixshot, years before the idea was fleshed out, every showing and author statement supports them being near the top of the pecking order.

Overlord soloing the entire Lost Light which had thousands as well is another example. Magnus and Rodimus couldn’t do anything. There’s also just that Ununtrium in general is supposed to be indestructible and none of the Ores are

 

[grillmaster]

Maybe not thousands of times but he definitely manhandled Magnus and Prime, basically any Point One Percenter is already several cuts below a Phase Sixer. even during Furman era Sixshot was still standing after being crushed by Metroplex (though the stomp put him out of commission for a bit) and the Titans are basically hugely beyond everybody else

we see a whole fleet of people jumping down just to fight Black Shadow and Magnus being choked out and Prime upoercutted. With backup 3000 strong Prime couldn’t do anything to him.

Overlord not being able to beat Megatron has a VERY specific plot reason: the achilles virus Megatron put into his brain to stop him from ever figuring out how to beat him. His losses in the gladiator pits were long before he became a Phase Sixer and bonded with Ununtrium. Roberts is the same writer who came up with all of the aforementioned concepts, and he’s the one who said Megatron stands no chance against Overlord in a straight fight.

I don’t recall Magnus ever dying or even fighting Shockwave in IDW. He does die once to Megatron during the Gloaming flashbacks, but as Megatron has also killed Optimus I don’t know that this highlights much of anything. Optimus doesn’t have dramatically higher showings than Magnus in IDW barring one off stuff like the Matrix killing D-Void. Tarn is a special case as 1. he has hax that lets him paralyze and kill anyone. 2. he was strong enough that Prowl thought he WAS a Phase Sixer. He’s a special case and nobody can be cleanly compared to him. He wasn’t outright stronger than Overlord in any case and he beat black shadow with his entire team not 1v1.

That same Megatron from Dark Cybertron got ripped in half by Galvatron who had no amps of any kind or special reinforcements like Ununtrium or Ore 13 and later took Optimus, Soundwave, and Arcee to kill. Thats what it took for a high tier guy to go down. I’m not buying that Point One Percenters are on par with Phase Sixers at all when barring Optimus and Sixshot, years before the idea was fleshed out, every showing and author statement supports them being near the top of the pecking order.

Overlord soloing the entire Lost Light which had thousands as well is another example. Magnus and Rodimus couldn’t do anything. There’s also just that Ununtrium in general is supposed to be indestructible and none of the Ores are

Yeah i pretty much agree with this, at least in terms of raw physical strength and not whatever civilization killing armaments they have on them id put Phase Sixers individually as equivalent to maybe a dozen or so point one percenters, at the very least they're strong enough to face squads of them and win, but in truth its likely more. Optimus on his own is equal to groups of Decepticons, and if Phase Sixers can manhandle him and guys on his level i think that math works out
If we highball using the Toraxxis feat its around country level so Prime is Country level and obviously Phase Sixers would be continental or life wiping as thats the whole reason they're so powerful in the first place
I will say that I thought the Phase Sixers did vary in power at least somewhat, with Overlord being strongest and i was undecided on the others
didn't Killmaster I believe it was have a gun that could blow up moons as well. IK hes not a Phase Sixer but still

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Yeah i pretty much agree with this, at least in terms of raw physical strength and not whatever civilization killing armaments they have on them id put Phase Sixers individually as equivalent to maybe a dozen or so point one percenters, at the very least they're strong enough to face squads of them and win, but in truth its likely more. Optimus on his own is equal to groups of Decepticons, and if Phase Sixers can manhandle him and guys on his level i think that math works out
If we highball using the Toraxxis feat its around country level so Prime is Country level and obviously Phase Sixers would be continental or life wiping as thats the whole reason they're so powerful in the first place
I will say that I thought the Phase Sixers did vary in power at least somewhat, with Overlord being strongest and i was undecided on the others
didn't Killmaster I believe it was have a gun that could blow up moons as well. IK hes not a Phase Sixer but still

the warriors elite all underwent the ununtrium bonding so killmaster’s physicals should be in the same ballpark as the others (Megatron of Rossum specifically brings up Heretech when Overlord is being bonded), Killmaster just also had crazy tech on top of it

 

[grillmaster]

the warriors elite all underwent the ununtrium bonding so killmaster’s physicals should be in the same ballpark as the others (Megatron of Rossum specifically brings up Heretech when Overlord is being bonded), Killmaster just also had crazy tech on top of it

makes sense
also now you've got me picturing Overlord vs Galvatron

 

[grillmaster]

lol this is just a random thought, since the powermaster upgrade makes Optimus 10-100x stronger, do you think a hypothetical powermaster IDW Prime could have fought Black Shadow

 

[Thirteen prime]

лол, это просто случайная мысль, поскольку обновление powermaster делает Оптимуса в 10-100 раз сильнее, как вы думаете, гипотетический powermaster IDW Prime мог бы сражаться с Черной Тенью

Мaybe