Who is the strongest character that Nerevarine (The Elder Scrolls) can beat in Toaru?

[Astaro]

Why not?

Because Othinus onward is Multiversal+

You argue he gets past her, you got the rest of her kind that are infinitely stronger than her. It’s in the Respect thread I made

 

[Masterblack06]

Because Othinus onward is Multiversal+

You argue he gets past her, you got the rest of her kind that are infinitely stronger than her. It’s in the Respect thread I made

I mean nothing you've posted has shown then being able to do anything about Chim, nor hurt the Numidium or kill it in any fashion.

So no, I do believe he kills all of them

 

[Astaro]

I mean nothing you've posted has shown then being able to do anything about Chim, nor hurt the Numidium or kill it in any fashion.

So no, I do believe he kills all of them

CHIM is just existence erasure. It shouldn’t work on anyone at his level who can resist existence erasure or even makes themselves non-existent and back (CRC), he doesn’t scale to the Numidium in power and lost to it even with a shit ton of protection and outside resources on hand, and the Numidium has been damaged by blatantly not Multiversal attacks by slipping through its erasure. All he did was damage the physical vessel when he destroyed the head, not the power it contains (Heart of Lorkhan)

So no, I don’t believe he kills any Magic God or more with this kind of flimsy logic and scaling

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

CHIM is just existence erasure.

Didn't he just tell you it's not? You can't keep doing this, my guy...

 

[Astaro]

Didn't he just tell you it's not? You can't keep doing this, my guy...

Stay on the sidelines and keep quiet, sheep

 

[Masterblack06]

CHIM is just existence erasure.

Thats not what Chim is, Youve confused CHIM and being Zero Summed.
CHIM is a state of awareness where you realize you are a character in a story and that you do not exist as an indiviual but still managed to retain your individuality. It is explained as 1(you exist) + -1(you dont exist) and having it come out to something other than 0 with 0 being you are wiped from the story entirely. CHIM allows you to do remove gods from existence, gods like the Aedra and Daedra, you essentially exist within your story as someone with console commands. You essentially gain the ability to do anything you want within your setting.

No on in To Aru has an answer to this. and to try and claim its just Existence Erasure in downplay of the highest order.

It shouldn’t work on anyone at his level who can resist existence erasure or even makes themselves non-existent and back (CRC)

It was able to kill the Nudmidum who exists and does not at the same time because his existence as a being the refuses all of reality he denies his own existence and non-existence at the same time. CRC wouldnt be immune as he has shown no resistance to removal of this level.

he doesn’t scale to the Numidium in power and lost to it even with a shit ton of protection and outside resources on hand, and the Numidium has been damaged by blatantly not Multiversal attacks by slipping through its erasure. All he did was damage the physical vessel when he destroyed the head, not the power it contains (Heart of Lorkhan)

the Landfall event and the event where the Nerevarine cut of his head with a Narrative bubble are 2 different events. You would know this if you payed attention to anything i've been saying. Your so lost in the Landfall event that your ignoring every other feat that has been told to you.

So no, I don’t believe he kills any Magic God or more with this kind of flimsy logic and scaling

There is no flimsy logic or scaling your just not paying attention and think the Landfall event is the only thing the Numidium has going for it

and again NOTHING you've posted in any To Aru thread has equaled anything the Numidium or the Nerevarine has done.

 

[Cryso Agori]

Because Othinus onward is Multiversal+

You argue he gets past her, you got the rest of her kind that are infinitely stronger than her. It’s in the Respect thread I made

What part of the respect thread makes her multiversal+?

You bring up her phase creation feat but that'd make her finite multiversal, since the last number given to the amount of worlds Othinus created was hundreds of billions, if you want to assume religious phases=Universe, which I don't assume, but if you were to make that argument, the number of religious phases is finite, Crowley describes them as countless not infinite, Curtana Original is described as cutting through all dimensions described as whole numbers, which is finite. So destroying all religious phases is finite multiversal as well assuming that they're equal to the universe.

Then there are timeline shenanigans, but we know that Magic Gods can't access other timelines, the main reason they fight is because they can't leave the world itself, they seem to don't even know other timelines exist. They also can't escape the WR timeline, so even assuming that other timelines exist I don't see any reason why they would somehow scale above it.

Finally tangram, its non-canon, and the metaphysics between the worlds are different, as the virtual-on crossover exists in an actual infinite string theory multiverse while canon toaru has finite timelines based off fiamma's translation, which Magic Gods can't even access. As far as I'm concerned unless Kamachi explicitly says he's talking about canon Othinus when comparing her to Tangram it'd only apply to the Othinus in the virtual-on crossover.

Also sidenote: I don't think Othinus destroyed the Pure World, not only does IB need it for it too work but the Pure World is considered to be the bottom-most layer, the foundation of the world, Which means it'd be below the Hidden World that Othinus couldn't destroy, so imo the hidden world probably kept the pure world from being destroyed.

 

[Astaro]

Thats not what Chim is, Youve confused CHIM and being Zero Summed.
CHIM is a state of awareness where you realize you are a character in a story and that you do not exist as an indiviual but still managed to retain your individuality. It is explained as 1(you exist) + -1(you dont exist) and having it come out to something other than 0 with 0 being you are wiped from the story entirely. CHIM allows you to do remove gods from existence, gods like the Aedra and Daedra, you essentially exist within your story as someone with console commands. You essentially gain the ability to do anything you want within your setting.

Citation of Nerevarine erasing an Aedra or Daedra from existence

No on in To Aru has an answer to this. and to try and claim its just Existence Erasure in downplay of the highest order.

If you cite the above, that’s more than enough

It was able to kill the Nudmidum who exists and does not at the same time because his existence as a being the refuses all of reality he denies his own existence and non-existence at the same time. CRC wouldnt be immune as he has shown no resistance to removal of this level.

Except he lost to the Numidium?

the Landfall event and the event where the Nerevarine cut of his head with a Narrative bubble are 2 different events. You would know this if you payed attention to anything i've been saying. Your so lost in the Landfall event that your ignoring every other feat that has been told to you.

There is no flimsy logic or scaling your just not paying attention and think the Landfall event is the only thing the Numidium has going for it

and again NOTHING you've posted in any To Aru thread has equaled anything the Numidium or the Nerevarine has done.

So did he beat the Numidium now? Or just remove the head which is superficial for a glorified container basically,

And if so, cite all of this

 

[Paxton]

What part of the respect thread makes her multiversal+?

You bring up her phase creation feat but that'd make her finite multiversal, since the last number given to the amount of worlds Othinus created was hundreds of billions, if you want to assume religious phases=Universe, which I don't assume, but if you were to make that argument, the number of religious phases is finite, Crowley describes them as countless not infinite, Curtana Original is described as cutting through all dimensions described as whole numbers, which is finite.

Then there are timeline shenanigans, but we know that Magic Gods can't access other timelines, the main reason they fight is because they can't leave the world itself, they seem to don't even know other timelines exist. They also can't escape the WR timeline, so even assuming that other timelines exist I don't see any reason why they would somehow scale above it.

Finally tangram, its non-canon, and the metaphysics between the worlds are different, as the virtual-on crossover exists in an actual infinite string theory multiverse while canon toaru has finite timelines based off fiamma's translation, which Magic Gods can't even access. As far as I'm concerned unless Kamachi explicitly says he's talking about canon Othinus when comparing her to Tangram it'd only apply to the Othinus in the virtual-on crossover.

The narration says Othinus can create an infinite amount of phases though.

 

[Astaro]

What part of the respect thread makes her multiversal+?

You bring up her phase creation feat but that'd make her finite multiversal, since the last number given to the amount of worlds Othinus created was hundreds of billions, if you want to assume religious phases=Universe, which I don't assume, but if you were to make that argument, the number of religious phases is finite, Crowley describes them as countless not infinite, Curtana Original is described as cutting through all dimensions described as whole numbers, which is finite.

There’s a scan saying she’s created infinite worlds and it’s on there.

Whole numbers go on infinitely as well.

Then there are timeline shenanigans, but we know that Magic Gods can't access other timelines, the main reason they fight is because they can't leave the world itself, they seem to don't even know other timelines exist. They also can't escape the WR timeline, so even assuming that other timelines exist I don't see any reason why they would somehow scale above it.

Even Coronzon can traverse timelines when she physically clawed her way back. The Magic Gods simply choose to be there

They didn’t know about the gaps between Phases that could be their own isolated timelines and didn’t consider the idea of both being weakened and than sent to those isolated timelines where they would no longer influence everything.

@fiamma can elaborate more on this because I’m tired of bottlefeeding shit I’ve already said to several different people now in this thread.

Finally tangram, its non-canon, and the metaphysics between the worlds are different, as the virtual-on crossover exists in an actual infinite string theory multiverse while canon toaru has finite timelines based off fiamma's translation, which Magic Gods can't even access. As far as I'm concerned unless Kamachi explicitly says he's talking about canon Othinus when comparing her to Tangram it'd only apply to the Othinus in the virtual-on crossover.

Literally just posted that to reinforce Othinus’ own feats

 

[Cryso Agori]

The narration says Othinus can create an infinite amount of phases though.

I'm psure that's hyperbole though, same way the chapters are titled Infinite Hells even though Touma wasn't actually tortured for infinity.

 

[Astaro]

Arguing hyperbole when the other side is arguing everything from dimension tiering, Magic Bombs made of logic! and glorified 4th wall awareness

 

[Cryso Agori]

Hyperbole when the other side is arguing everything from dimension tiering, Magic Bombs made of logic! and 4th wall awareness

Mate I don't really care for the other side, my knowledge of Skyrim and elder scrolls starts and ends with stealth memes.

I just think the evidence you posted isn't sufficient to place Othinus in infinite multiverse tier when most of what we know that Othinus did or the cosmology that can be effected by MGs is finite.


Also

Even Coronzon can traverse timelines when she physically clawed her way back. The Magic Gods simply choose to be there

They didn’t know about the gaps between Phases that could be their own isolated timelines and didn’t consider the idea of both being weakened and than sent to those isolated timelines where they would no longer influence everything.

Yeaaaah, I'm gonna need like cites for everything here, I meme on Coronzon alot for her bad performance compared to the hype but as a Great Demon of the abyss she should have abilities that MG's do not like knowledge and being able to escape timelines, similar to Crowley's hazard ability which magic gods can't replicate.

Same thing for MG's being able to escape the WR timeline.

Also timelines existing between phases, is that based off Kamisato saying how World Rejector can stretch the universe to make space?

 

[Paxton]

Coronzon's performance isn't even bad.
She overpowers several semi-serious Magic Gods on-screen, has access to magic they cannot counter, and is repeatedly stated by the narration to have no equal that can actually beat her except for Lilith, etc.

All this while still being restricted in the surface world despite the avatar she has.

Mfs just don't read.

 

[Astaro]

Mate I don't really care for the other side, my knowledge of Skyrim and elder scrolls starts and ends with stealth memes.

Then don’t make arguments that easily hurt the other side even more with what’s been argued so far,

I just think the evidence you posted isn't sufficient to place Othinus in infinite multiverse tier when most of what we know that Othinus did or the cosmology that can be effected by MGs is finite.

Gotta do more than just write out hyperbole.

Yeaah, I'm gonna need like cites for everything here, I meme on Coronzon alot for her bad performance compared to the hype but as a Great Demon of the abyss she should have abilities that MG's do not like knowledge

Citation that her Abyss knowledge is what was being applied when she literally ripped her way out of a timeline.

and being able to escape timelines, similar to Crowley's hazard ability which magic gods can't replicate.

Citation that they can’t?

Same thing for MG's being able to escape the WR timeline.

Every time they move between Phases which are the countless parallel worlds that make the setting.

Also timelines existing between phases, is that based off Kamisato saying how World Rejector can stretch the universe to make space?

Read the respect thread.

 

[Paxton]

Who's to say Coronzon isn't just doing something similar to Curtana Original with her bare hands, given that she's a being of a similar status to Gabriel/Michael?

I don't see why Magic Gods could replicate that.

 

[Astaro]

World Rejector is literally their own power used against them too

 

[Cryso Agori]

Gotta do more than just write out hyperbole.

Okay

Othinus only creating a finite amount of hells for Touma despite supposedly being able to create an infinite amount of them.

Crowley stating there are only countless not infinite phases.

Citation that her Abyss knowledge is what was being applied when she literally ripped her way out of a timeline.

Citation that they can’t?

The fact that MG's didn't cross the abyss unlike Crowley, which is how he got that ability.

Coronzon exists in the Abyss and has knowledge of the cosmology of the verse that goes beyond even the MGs with her having a destruction ability surpassing there supposed infinite power with Mo Althair.

Every time they move between Phases which are the countless parallel worlds that make the setting.

What in the what now?

Phases have never been described as alternate timelines, phases are either worlds created by MG's or worlds created by the beliefs of humans, not alternate timelines.

Read the respect thread.

I did.

 

[Paxton]

Okay









The fact that MG's didn't cross the abyss unlike Crowley, which is how he got that ability.

Coronzon exists in the Abyss and has knowledge of the cosmology of the verse that goes beyond even the MGs with her having a destruction ability surpassing there supposed infinite power with Mo Althair.



What in the what now?

Phases have never been described as alternate timelines, phases are either worlds created by MG's or worlds created by the beliefs of humans, not alternate timelines.



I did.

?

Aleister had the Hazards before he crossed the Abyss in NT22.

 

[Masterblack06]

Citation of Nerevarine erasing an Aedra or Daedra from existence

Ah yeah hold on let me find the feat of the Nerevarine doing something the Nerevarine wouldn't do to his own universe.

CHIM puts you above the Aedra and Daedra as it grants you control over everything. Thats how CHIM works and has worked.

Cite me any of the Magic Gods dealing with a narrative bubble because again thats how he beat the Numidium

Except he lost to the Numidium?

Yup

So did he beat the Numidium now? Or just remove the head which is superficial for a glorified container basically,

Numidium broke time so hard that he essentially became acasual. When he was destroyed at the end of Landfall he wasnt. He exists at multiple points of time simulatenously so he avoided every having to deal with that entire situation ontop of existing, not existing, and denying his own nonexistence at the same time.

It took CHIM and the Nerevarine forcing the Numidium into a super specific situation and using a narrative bubble to take its head off to finally stop it.

All of this is in C0DA

Arguing hyperbole when the other side is arguing everything from dimension tiering, Magic Bombs made of logic! and glorified 4th wall awareness

Dimensional Tiering
magic bombs made of logic

Im lost here
Did you think i was just making shit up. The Hist in Elder Scrolls fights people using weaponized mathematics. 16 dimensional mathemtatics. This isnt a dimensional tiering thing, this is just how the fucking trees fight. and Yes Logic Bombs are a thing, if you can use math to disprove the existence of a living person why in all that is holy do you think they don't know how to weaponize logic in order to fight.

Your not fucking ready to even begin to understand how any of this fucking shit works but its feats

KINMUNE (Kinetically-Interlinked Nirnian Multi-User Exoform) started her existence as any other proxy-synthetic of the 9th Era aurbical mining guilds: a limited sentience deep-pressure capable "thot-box"—a dreamsleevishell used by remote mortal operators to run the rigs of Kynareth's illicit breath trade. Able to stream several live-wire mortal proxies at once, Kinmune was a top-of-the-line Hazardous Conditions Warprunner Exoform of an ayleidoon hegemony nearing another unceremonious end.

But then the Hist-Jilian wars spilled out of a Wheelian rip into the SubSys slice of 'brane-space, and things changed for Kinmune. With the outer colonies separated from Nu-Mundelbright chronoculic sync-net anchors, maintenance of space-time beyond the F-Shores faltered. As the barely-there Hist blink-root-ship armada fired an artillery barrage of 16th-dimensional mathematics at their Jilian enemies, impossipoint detonations stippled across the Ix-Egg and its clutch-satellites like some garish TalOSian hologram, only without the irony. Kinmune's synthetic body, caught in one of the blasts, suddenly found itself in the Ysgramorim, her mind an aggregate of the residual personalities of her last several users.

It drove her insane. She retreated into snow-covered forests her memory-web could only recall from ancient histories, broadcasting distress calls in all the known languages of the 9th Era. Most of this tok-talk didn't even even exist in the Wheel we knew of then. But the clevermen, heroes, and whalebone-readers of that time could still feel her presence in the woods of the Western Reach. Some felt Kinmune's distress call as a small tickle of in the Throat, while others were guided by esoteric instinct.

Over time, Kinmune earned many names and titles as her new visitors took their counsel. She was the Oracle Iridescent, spoken of in the Green Tablet Steps of Jhunal. She was the Witch of Wire and String, able to allow the Sons and Daughters to see through her eyes into the myriad secrets of post-kalpica transmeditations. Perhaps most famously, she was Kinmune the Doom of the Dumb Old Giant, because for all the minds that she let wear her body, none escaped in whole thereafter, even those with blood of the Karstaag. Kinmune always took a portion of her proxies' power and mystery.

It was this last act that doomed her to becoming one of the Arena's most feared villains. High King Ysgramor took the loss of the Dumb Old Giant, one of his greatest counselors outside of Torc and Talking-Belt, with great anger, and sent his Thanes and Shield-Biters against her, equipped with great relics and enchanted weapons of wasabi. And though the fight was hard, the champions of the Altmora managed to seal Kinmune beneath the always-burnt borders of Sarthaal, imprisoning her in its prismatic network of misunderstood dwemercraft.

But Kinmune was built to work in crushing, deep pressure environments, and so she lay long under the Mund, plotting her revenge on the Ada-issue. It was mortals that had fabricated her as an all-access puppet to plumb dark depths that their own weak shells could not in the 9 and that now saw fit in the 1 and 1 to condemn her as a witch-thing merely for attempting to become something more than a maradaoon marionette.

Kinmune soaked in the misunderstandistance of the dwemeri brass-and-cricket-lines around her, converting it into a language her databanx could study and synthesize. As Eras passed, it became a language that she could harness as Varliance+.

She escaped the now-forgotten ruinings of Sarthaal to seek a refuge from which she could exact her wrath. When her sense-net picked up on multiple signals of new, raw, and unorthodox thu'umanics, Kinmune made straight for its nexus: the more or less newly-bannered Kuhlekainian Cyrod, still yet in its tenth anniversary remembrance of the Insult of some wrong-headed cave-totems.

Like did you think I was fucking joking about the cocaine shit?