DBZ/GT Toeiland power

[Crimson Dragoon]

Toei really gave no thought to their filler, huh? Goku and Vegeta (sans Majin bullshit) are static measuring sticks in this arc

This is actually some order of comic book writing nonsense

Really was a preview of what was to come with Super decades later I guess

I don’t take that particular scene at face value for powerscaling but it’s pretty obvious that if it were up to Toei, Goku would be stronger than Gohan and Gotenks

I personally put more weight on the short Buutenks scuffle where SSJ3 Goku was on the losing end but didn’t seem to do worse than Gohan



It puts Goku above Gotenks at least

 

[ChaosTheory123]

I don’t take that particular scene at face value for powerscaling but it’s pretty obvious that if it were up to Toei, Goku would be stronger than Gohan and Gotenks

Sure, that much I figure given marketability and popularity

Doesn’t make him not a static measuring stick though

I personally put more weight on the short Buutenks scuffle where SSJ3 Goku was on the losing end but didn’t seem to do worse than Gohan



It puts Goku above Gotenks at least

So long as Vegeta isn’t involved in the mix and the vibe is Goku is holding back that much in Toei, I could maybe squint at this?

If dialogue remains that has him keep insisting on Fusion, even with only Super Buu though, I’m not really sure I’m sold with this filler either

 

[Crimson Dragoon]

So long as Vegeta isn’t involved in the mix and the vibe is Goku is holding back that much in Toei, I could maybe squint at this?

If dialogue remains that has him keep insisting on Fusion, even with only Super Buu though, I’m not really sure I’m sold with this filler either

Funny part is the anime still kept the dialogue where Goku admitted inferiority to Super Buu

There are more snarls

Against Buutenks and Buuhan: Goku practically begs for Fusion

Against Kid Buu: Goku calls him the strongest Buu but was willing to take him on anyway (he still ends up eating shit though)

Going just by dialogue leads to all sorts of bullshit, so I just weigh the actual fights a bit more, at least the ones that doesn’t have as much snarls as the inside Buu segment, while taking into account Toei’s absolute desire to have Goku be top dog. So going just by Toeiland Buu arc, I have Goku roughly equivalent to Ultimate Gohan at least

With the movies though, Goku is unquestionably stronger since they’re not bound by manga canon statements, making things simpler

 

[Crimson Dragoon]

@ChaosTheory123 I replied to the bit on pre-RoSaT SSJ Gotenks’s power on NF but the stupid place has the post waiting on mod approval so I’ll copypaste it here

Pre-RoSaT SSJ Gotenks should be stronger than fatty since he was portrayed as their last hope when Goku decided to leave it up to the kids

Chapter: 472 (DBZ 278), P9.4
Context: after explaining that Fusion lasts 30 minutes
Goku: “With these two [Goten and Trunks], if they just manage to perform Fusion successfully, I think they’ll definitely be able to defeat [Boo] within 30 minutes. Fusion is just that extreme.”

Chapter: 477 (DBZ 283), P11.8
Context: Chi-Chi thinks Goten will get killed by Boo
Goku: “Don’t worry. If he perfects the technique he’s trying now, he definitely ain’t gonna lose.”

Piccolo’s reaction to Base Gotenks:

Chapter: 480 (DBZ 286), P11.4-5
Context: after Piccolo says to try Fusion again, as Super Saiyans
Gotenks: “Hehhehheh…Aren’t you underestimating me? Like this, I’m more than enough to defeat Majin Boo.”
Piccolo: “Yo-you idiot! What are you saying?! You don’t know anything about Majin Boo’s fearsomeness! No matter how incredible you may be, at that level there’s still absolutely no way you’d be able to win!”

Then SSJ:

Chapter: 482 (DBZ 288), P7.2-3
Context: after Super Saiyan Gotenks forms for the first time
Piccolo: “…Yeah…Your ki really is absolutely incredible, but how about your movement?...Show me a little.”
Gotenks: “Is that alright? If I show you here, the house might break. I’ll do it on the ground.”

Piccolo praised his ki and doesn’t really contradict Goku’s estimation, only questioning his movement. When Gotenks speeds away to fight Fat Buu:

Chapter: 482 (DBZ 288), P9.3-8
Context: Piccolo finally catches up to Gotenks
Gotenks: “You’re slow. So you finally got here? Besides circling around the Earth several times, I even took a little afternoon nap. [ ] Fuffuffuh…So you can’t tell just from my speed just now? My super-duper incredible power…! …Which is to say that the test is over, and I’m going to go take care of that annoying Majin Boo right away…”
Gotenks takes off
Piccolo: “H-hey, you idiot! Kuh…! Wh-what a shithead…H-he already has only 1 minute left that he can stay merged. That dimwhit…!”

Piccolo only notes Gotenks’s time is limited, but doesn’t mention he’s still too weak to beat Buu or anything like that. Now when Super Buu appears, Piccolo basically outright says Gotenks has no chance before all the training

Chapter: 487 (DBZ 293), P13.5
Context: as Piccolo plans on having Goten and Trunks train in the Room of Spirit and Time
Piccolo: “Can’t you tell…?! As they are now, even if they perform Fusion they can’t win, no doubt about it…! Tell them that if they don’t want to die while they’re still just little brats, then they should train as much as they can…!”

Pretty stark contrast

So yeah, SSJ Gotenks before training should be stronger than pre-split Fat Buu since it was never really contradicted when the knowledgeable characters could’ve done so. Gap shouldn’t be huge but he’d have an edge on the pink lard in terms of overall strength

 

[ChaosTheory123]

Funny part is the anime still kept the dialogue where Goku admitted inferiority to Super Buu

There are more snarls

Against Buutenks and Buuhan: Goku practically begs for Fusion

Against Kid Buu: Goku calls him the strongest Buu but was willing to take him on anyway (he still ends up eating shit though)

Going just by dialogue leads to all sorts of bullshit, so I just weigh the actual fights a bit more, at least the ones that doesn’t have as much snarls as the inside Buu segment, while taking into account Toei’s absolute desire to have Goku be top dog. So going just by Toeiland Buu arc, I have Goku roughly equivalent to Ultimate Gohan at least

With the movies though, Goku is unquestionably stronger since they’re not bound by manga canon statements, making things simpler

Toei sounds like a pain in the ass to parse in this respect, yeah. Guess it really amounts to what you treat as the core pivot to dictate what you take out of hand

@ChaosTheory123 I replied to the bit on pre-RoSaT SSJ Gotenks’s power on NF but the stupid place has the post waiting on mod approval so I’ll copypaste it here

Pre-RoSaT SSJ Gotenks should be stronger than fatty since he was portrayed as their last hope when Goku decided to leave it up to the kids

Chapter: 472 (DBZ 278), P9.4
Context: after explaining that Fusion lasts 30 minutes
Goku: “With these two [Goten and Trunks], if they just manage to perform Fusion successfully, I think they’ll definitely be able to defeat [Boo] within 30 minutes. Fusion is just that extreme.”

Chapter: 477 (DBZ 283), P11.8
Context: Chi-Chi thinks Goten will get killed by Boo
Goku: “Don’t worry. If he perfects the technique he’s trying now, he definitely ain’t gonna lose.”

Piccolo’s reaction to Base Gotenks:

Chapter: 480 (DBZ 286), P11.4-5
Context: after Piccolo says to try Fusion again, as Super Saiyans
Gotenks: “Hehhehheh…Aren’t you underestimating me? Like this, I’m more than enough to defeat Majin Boo.”
Piccolo: “Yo-you idiot! What are you saying?! You don’t know anything about Majin Boo’s fearsomeness! No matter how incredible you may be, at that level there’s still absolutely no way you’d be able to win!”

Then SSJ:

Chapter: 482 (DBZ 288), P7.2-3
Context: after Super Saiyan Gotenks forms for the first time
Piccolo: “…Yeah…Your ki really is absolutely incredible, but how about your movement?...Show me a little.”
Gotenks: “Is that alright? If I show you here, the house might break. I’ll do it on the ground.”

Piccolo praised his ki and doesn’t really contradict Goku’s estimation, only questioning his movement. When Gotenks speeds away to fight Fat Buu:

Chapter: 482 (DBZ 288), P9.3-8
Context: Piccolo finally catches up to Gotenks
Gotenks: “You’re slow. So you finally got here? Besides circling around the Earth several times, I even took a little afternoon nap. [ ] Fuffuffuh…So you can’t tell just from my speed just now? My super-duper incredible power…! …Which is to say that the test is over, and I’m going to go take care of that annoying Majin Boo right away…”
Gotenks takes off
Piccolo: “H-hey, you idiot! Kuh…! Wh-what a shithead…H-he already has only 1 minute left that he can stay merged. That dimwhit…!”

Piccolo only notes Gotenks’s time is limited, but doesn’t mention he’s still too weak to beat Buu or anything like that. Now when Super Buu appears, Piccolo basically outright says Gotenks has no chance before all the training

Chapter: 487 (DBZ 293), P13.5
Context: as Piccolo plans on having Goten and Trunks train in the Room of Spirit and Time
Piccolo: “Can’t you tell…?! As they are now, even if they perform Fusion they can’t win, no doubt about it…! Tell them that if they don’t want to die while they’re still just little brats, then they should train as much as they can…!”

Pretty stark contrast

So yeah, SSJ Gotenks before training should be stronger than pre-split Fat Buu since it was never really contradicted when the knowledgeable characters could’ve done so. Gap shouldn’t be huge but he’d have an edge on the pink lard in terms of overall strength

Wonder which word is being flagged by auto mod

Wonder if its shithead? Or maybe Fatty or Lard? Or does some otherwise innocuous combination somehow spell out a slur by accident?

But yeah, makes sense.

Also, fun time on Namek?

Spoiler

So, Piccolo/Gohan/Krillin is reacting to something here going off the "!?" bubble. Same with Vegeta and the "!!"

Piccolo clarifies the only thing he could have been reacting to was the flash of light. Basically, by the time the flash of light from Freeza's ki blast reaches Piccolo for him to see it and react, the ki blast itself has already reached them and passed them by.

On its own, saying he only saw the flash of light would be meaningless, but combined with where the ki blast was in relation to Piccolo when someone in that group reacted to something, the flash of light, Freeza's attack would need to traveling the same speed or faster shrugs

Man, I really didn't take much time to reread this shit when I was actively playing with the manga a decade ago, this one was kind of obvious to play with

 

[King]

 

[ChaosTheory123]

@Crimson Dragoon @Blade

Did Super have any decent shots of any of the cities in DB?

[〜Dragon Ball Investigation: File #003〜 World Travelogue: Central City Area] | DRAGON BALL OFFICIAL SITE

The World Travelogue series is where we shine the spotlight on some of the most

en.dragon-ball-official.com

Because there's really not much to measure Piccolo Daimao's attacks on the world capital sans the recently published notion its the largest city or the fact concurrent with the moment Piccolo fired the attack off Bulma and company were about ~10 minutes away in a Capsule plane. A bit less, but not substantially so as Piccolo literally fired off the attack right after the time frame was announced.

Best the Manga has to work with was all the way in Buu when he blew away that random city that extended to the horizon from that hill top, that's about it.

 

[Blade]

Did Super have any decent shots of any of the cities in DB?

 

[ChaosTheory123]

Also, we can agree this boat looks vaguely enough like this one, right?

Spoiler

Category:New Orange (ship, 1983) - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

Category:IMO 8317083 - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

Because others are free to look through here if they disagree, but this is what I came away with because nothing was a complete 1 to 1 match

Category:Passenger ships of Japan - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

Ships any time after 1989 I didn't even look at given that's roughly the year volume 16 was published so...

 

[Blade]

Also, we can agree this boat looks vaguely enough like this one, right?

this mini cruise ship also is fine, kinda closer to the one to the pic

 

[ChaosTheory123]

this mini cruise ship also is fine, kinda closer to the one to the pic

Missing the 2 steam stack looking things. Was trying to find a ship that had those and a similar enough looking body. Wasn't too many options to work with.

Also, quite literally nothing I found looked like the ship on the right, so I do not know what could have inspired that look at all

 

[Blade]

you nerd, you want every detail

yeah, in that case, the one you posted fits, cuz literally not many options

so

what do you think?

will it result to maybe island+ levels if you recalc it? or just further levels of city+?

 

[ChaosTheory123]

you nerd, you want every detail

Details inform the math

yeah, in that case, the one you posted fits, cuz literally not many options

Brute forcing that was not fun, but didn't take long, just put on some music while clicking some links for a half hour or so. This is the end result.

so

what do you think?

will it result to maybe island+ levels if you recalc it? or just further levels of city+?

I mean, Super Hero and Daima appear to have been heavily influenced by the Daizenshuu world map, so I'm going to just scale Papaya Island off that? shrugs

Think it's called a small continent, and given they are leaning into using that map more for official shit, I imagine finding it comparable to at least Greenland given not even that island qualifies as a "small continent" would be fair shrugs

Obviously, its never been drawn at that scale, you can clearly see roads and shit, but Toriyama's basically ONE with the artistic ability to draw aesthetically pleasing shit, his sense of scale and consistency is ass (even for things he emphasizes the scale like Recoome's Eraser Gun, that warped the planet's curvature, you can make out fucking trees on the surrounding islands).

 

[Triple Accel 555]

What do you think about this feat @ChaosTheory123 ?

Anime can get pretty crazy considering the destruction of planet Namek becomes an explosion so bright it's brighter than the entire Galaxy Namek was in and even a near dead Frieza tanked that.

Dragon Ball: Anime Freeza destroys Namek

vsbattles.fandom.com

Here another evidence for how the explosion of Namek is brighter in Galaxy.

第 117 話　男だねェ…クリリン101回目のプロポーズ - ドラゴンボールZ - 作品ラインナップ - 東映アニメーション

第 117 話　男だねェ…クリリン101回目のプロポーズの作品紹介

lineup.toei-anim.co.jp

The original version is mentioned Galaxy.

And another Toei Namek Saga feat is base Namek Goku's reach multiple surrounding planets.

 

[ChaosTheory123]

you nerd, you want every detail

yeah, in that case, the one you posted fits, cuz literally not many options

so

what do you think?

will it result to maybe island+ levels if you recalc it? or just further levels of city+?

Dragon Ball Feats - Emperor Pilaf Collection

Goku = 337 pixels Boulder = 474 pixels Boulder/Goku = 1.407 Goku = 1.23 meters (Goku was 12, he should be at least as tall as his son Goten) Boulder = 1.729 meters Volume = (4/3)PIr^3 r = Boulder/2 Boulder Volume = 2.705 m^3 Rock Density =...

onelastforum.com

Dragon Ball Feats - Tenka'ichi Budōkai Collection

So? Relevant 21st Tenka'ichi Budōkai Feats Krillin's Physical Might vs Orin Temple Bully Son Goku's Physical Might vs Giran Krillin's Physical Might vs Jackie Chun Nam's Physical Might Jackie Chun's Physical Might vs Son Goku Son Goku's...

onelastforum.com

More to come~

 

[Blade]

More to come

at least country+/quad digits 23rd budokai chars, plus some relativistic+/lightspeed attack speed feats from the previous arcs, lol

psure, if you recalc the piccolo moon feat, is going to be planet+ levels, this time = raditz oneshots more verses as well

 

[ChaosTheory123]

at least country+/quad digits 23rd budokai chars, plus some relativistic+/lightspeed attack speed feats from the previous arcs, lol

psure, if you recalc the piccolo moon feat, is going to be planet+ levels, this time = raditz oneshots more verses as well

Beginning of Saiyan Arc Piccolo Jr's (Night After Raditz Fight) Bakurikimaha Yield = 1,808,270,807,326,271,000,000,000,000,000,000 joules or 432.187 zettatons
Beginning of Saiyan Arc Piccolo Jr's (Night After Raditz Fight) Bakurikimaha Yield = 5,712,552,490,158,447,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 joules or 1,365.333 yottatons or 1.365 ninatons

No context, just the result

Also

Dragon Ball Feats - Red Ribbon Army Collection

Panel Width = 1369 pixels Goku Armspan = 106 pixels Two-Lane Road = 31 pixels 2*atan(Object_Size/(Panel_Width/tan(FoV/2))) = object degree size 2*atan(106/(1369/tan(70/2 deg))) https://www.1728.org/angsize.htm Goku Armspan = 6.207 Degrees...

onelastforum.com

^Red Ribbon Army uploaded

 

[Blade]

wow, he truly became at least planet+ levels

bro, they legit one ki blast bleach, oda piece, nardo, ft, asta clover and etc, once again, even more casually this time, the obd method of test trend is back

 

[ChaosTheory123]

The magic of getting older and learning about things like the limits of human visual acuity can do for whittling down a low end time frame

Also, actually bothering to measure how far the mass would need to be ejected to not appear at all on panel rather than arbitrarily go with expanding to twice its diameter

 

[Derpmaster9000]

wow, he truly became at least planet+ levels

bro, they legit one ki blast bleach, oda piece, nardo, ft, asta clover and etc, once again, even more casually this time, the obd method of test trend is back

High-end Piccolo's moon blast being only a little over ten times under dwarf star level yield is even wilder. Especially when you consider he's fodder next to Raditz, whose fodder next to Nappa, and so on.

Method of test is back indeed. Bloody hell.