Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 5: Diamonds are fleeting. Stupid lasts forever

[Xhominid The Apex]

By this logic then Servant who is summoned normally and not nerfed like Artoria summoned by Shirou cannot get stronger by Command Spell, when it was canon it can strengthen Servant.

Command Seals don't power up Servants like that, all it does is give them more Magical Energy without draining it from their reservoirs or further add onto that.

I think at some point in F/SN it did state that more magical energy=Servant get stronger.

There is no point in F/SN where that's stated, if anything, the opposite is stated because Servants get weaker having less Magical Energy because they can't depend on their busted Reinforcement for damage, easier to kill as their spiritual bodies are weakened for easier access to their Spirit Core and can't use their NPs for fear of instantly vanishing.

Grail give magical energy, so shouldn't Servant should get stronger universally then?

No. Because Servants have caps in their Spirit Origins and cannot go above that maximum, not even in FGO(Morgan and Altera explicitly have lines that show they are not able to get even remotely close to their living selves in terms of power). You are misunderstanding having practically infinite Magical Energy for "strength" when it's more the equivalent of being able to fire off extremely BS Kamehamehas without any cost.

Kriemhild in Traum having 2 Grails is noted to be really strong because of it. Not that they all get the same upgrade just because they get the same grail support, obviously some that have Mana Burst benefits more, but it would still give every Servants more power by simply having grail.

Again, Kriemhild literally got the equivalent of a Spirit Origin Ascension without having one. Traum stated that having 2 of their specialized Grails was her limit and she can get no stronger due to it. It also only affects the Kings of the Realms and no one else benefits from it at all. The infinite Magical Energy only works as a "boost" to power otherwise when it comes to equal Skills like Mana Burst(since you are using that extra Magical Energy as an amp) or if your Noble Phantasm has extra applications you can bypass(Like with Tametomo using 7 Grails to bypass a fuckton of the extra shots he needs with his NP to only require 2 for the insane shenanigans we see in his event).

 

[Masterblack06]

ok cool so if you resist being petrified

you don't get petrified

glad we agree

It all depends on how your being petrified and if that petrification can work on people who have shown resistance to petrification.

Context matters and all that

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

ok cool so if you resist being petrified

you don't get petrified

glad we agree

Again, the passive aggressiveness is off the charts and it always happens when you are dead wrong, cut that shit out.

 

[Paxton]

Having added bonuses to an ability if it's resisted or being easier to fulfill the conditions for the ability to activate on an opponent does not make it harder to resist.

I don't see how that's even remotely incorrect.

 

[Masterblack06]

If your wondering if 2 things are the same, just look at how their mechanics. that should help when trying to figure out if something can be resisted or not

just chill out gentlemen

Spoiler

yeah i know funny coming from me hue

 

[Salfarc]

ok cool so if you resist being petrified

you don't get petrified

glad we agree

In addition to what you and Xhom said, Cybele reduce the ability to resist too, it get stronger at closer range too. Basilisk doesn't have that.

And you haven't answer my question why would the "candle and magma burns= the same" be different than your belief "cybele and basilisk petrify= the same"?

Command Seals don't power up Servants like that, all it does is give them more Magical Energy without draining it from their reservoirs or further add onto that.

No. Because Servants have caps in their Spirit Origins and cannot go above that maximum, not even in FGO(Morgan and Altera explicitly have lines that show they are not able to get even remotely close to their living selves in terms of power). You are misunderstanding having practically infinite Magical Energy for "strength" when it's more the equivalent of being able to fire off extremely BS Kamehamehas without any cost.



Again, Kriemhild literally got the equivalent of a Spirit Origin Ascension without having one. Traum stated that having 2 of their specialized Grails was her limit and she can get no stronger due to it. It also only affects the Kings of the Realms and no one else benefits from it at all. The infinite Magical Energy only works as a "boost" to power otherwise when it comes to equal Skills like Mana Burst(since you are using that extra Magical Energy as an amp) or if your Noble Phantasm has extra applications you can bypass(Like with Tametomo using 7 Grails to bypass a fuckton of the extra shots he needs with his NP to only require 2 for the insane shenanigans we see in his event).

After reading the actual comment from the guy, it seems the argument is how Grail doesn't increase parameter? Then yeah I agree it doesn't.

But that "further add" magical energy is what I am referring to, that it still empowers Servant. Guda used that a lot too. And the case Kriemhild too. Having more magical energy to cast Kamehameha would still means it get stronger.

There is no point in F/SN where that's stated, if anything, the opposite is stated because Servants get weaker having less Magical Energy because they can't depend on their busted Reinforcement for damage, easier to kill as their spiritual bodies are weakened for easier access to their Spirit Core and can't use their NPs for fear of instantly vanishing.

Maybe this is the one I am thinking of but reversed, huh.

 

[King]

 

[Masterblack06]

Oh I also wanted to say one thing before I go out and play some fallout.

Despite us sometimes having the most mind numbing backwards ass arguments, most of us dont take it seriously and can all come back here and keep chatting and shit.

Alright peace

 

[Salfarc]

Oh I also wanted to say one thing before I go out and play some fallout.

Despite us sometimes having the most mind numbing backwards ass arguments, most of us dont take it seriously and can all come back here and keep chatting and shit.

Alright peace

Hey! at least you don't ban us arguing against you, in a website page for arguing! Unlike a certain site's mod!

 

[Paxton]

In addition to what you and Xhom said, Cybele reduce the ability to resist too, it get stronger at closer range too. Basilisk doesn't have that.

And you haven't answer my question why would the "candle and magma burns= the same" be different than your belief "cybele and basilisk petrify= the same"?

After reading the actual comment from the guy, it seems the argument is how Grail doesn't increase parameter? Then yeah I agree it doesn't.

But that "further add" magical energy is what I am referring to, that it still empowers Servant. Guda used that a lot too. And the case Kriemhild too. Having more magical energy to cast Kamehameha would still means it get stronger.

Maybe this is the one I am thinking of but reversed, huh.

I did though?

"Except we're not dealing with quantifiable measurements of heat.

Both abilities petrify the target, with Cybele having the added benefit of decreasing their attributes even if the petrification is resisted.

That's about it."

What would actually be relevant is Cybele petrifying someone who already resists petrification, or something along those lines.

 

[Cryso Agori]

Bruh, assuming that immunity to petrification means immunity to all forms of petrification in fiction is a classic nlf.

 

[Cryso Agori]

A character that can resist a petrify spell from a small city level character is not gonna be able to resist or be immune to a petrify spell from Classic 616 Strange for instance.

 

[Paxton]

city level petrification

universe level petrification

yes, these are phrases that definitely make sense

 

[Salfarc]

I did though?

You didn't, you only say they are different. You didn't say why.

But in candle and magma, both also burns.

So in this case change Cybele to Magma, Basilisk to Candle, petrify to Burn

You got the same argument.

Why are you okay with one but not with the other?

You missed this.

So why would you treat them different?

 

[Cryso Agori]

city level petrification

universe level petrification

yes, these are phrases that definitely make sense

That's basically the level between Overlord and Fate yes.

Medusa is a high tier servant who can fight a Grailed Artoria Alter, she's ftl in reactions and planet level, her eyes were also able to work on said Artoria.

Overlord is at most a large town level verse.

Fate hax, especially from servants waaaaaaay overshoot whatever resistances and immunities the OV verse has simply by the fact that Cybele worked on way stronger characters(again just watch her vs artoria alter)

 

[Blade]

so, lets say barragan uses respira on toeiland kakarot (i am giving a super high end example), you think respira gonna affect him?

whereas, a spell from classic doc strange gonna turn him to ashes, yes even doc stranges petrification/corrosion spells are on another level, since they affect cosmic beings which have showed their own hax/hax resistance,

it all matter of context and what type of char/which char is using it, and on who, learn to separate nlf from the actual potency of the hax tech, so simple

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

After reading the actual comment from the guy, it seems the argument is how Grail doesn't increase parameter? Then yeah I agree it doesn't.

But that "further add" magical energy is what I am referring to, that it still empowers Servant. Guda used that a lot too. And the case Kriemhild too. Having more magical energy to cast Kamehameha would still means it get stronger.

Again, it doesn't "empower" a Servant, it gives them free access to magical energy when which cannot boost past their level without needing other means to get past that entirely(Like with Kadoc's Lostbelt Anastasia).
And again, Kamehameha is literally like Mana Burst as the more Ki/Magical Energy you put into it, the stronger it is from magnification. It does not allow the character to exceed their parameters.

city level petrification

universe level petrification

yes, these are phrases that definitely make sense

Seems like someone forgot that Hax has levels too...

 

[Paxton]

You didn't, you only say they are different. You didn't say why.


You missed this.

So why would you treat them different?

Please quantify an effect like petrification in numbers.

I'll wait.

 

[Paxton]

so, lets say barragan uses respira on toeiland kakarot (i am giving a super high end example), you think respira gonna affect him?

whereas, a spell from classic doc strange gonna turn him to ashes, yes even doc stranges petrification/corrosion spells are on another level, since they affect cosmic beings which have showed their own hax/hax resistance,

it all matter of context and what type of char/which char is using it, and on who, learn to separate nlf from the actual potency of the hax tech, so simple

Yeah, that's how feats work (ignoring the specific weaknesses of Respira).

If Goku doesn't have the feat to resist it then he doesn't resist it.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

That's basically the level between Overlord and Fate yes.

Medusa is a high tier servant who can fight a Grailed Artoria Alter, she's ftl and planet level, her eyes were also able to work on said Artoria.

Overlord is at most a large town level verse.

Fate hax, especially from servants waaaaaaay overshoot whatever resistances and immunities the OV verse has simply by the fact that Cybele worked on way stronger characters(again just watch her vs artoria alter)

Again, Medusa is only Lightspeed/Relativistic and FTL in reactions.
Just making that known again.