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are controls the only issue about the modern games? what about the characters and the story/lore? surely that is still passable and acceptable to say the least no?

But Dragon Ball Super (or Xeno/Heroes) being better than it? For me, I never expected to hear that. I guess I've been out of the loop for so long sooo.... at least the best of SF or Ryu in the old days is better than Goku and DB or at least current Goku or DB? Btw, what's so bad or terrible about "modern" SF precisely?

Also what in goddamn hell made them think that lumping Kratos in with both Goku AND Sonic was actually a remotely good idea?

Okay then very well my niggas and lads.... Martian Manhunter vs the Vision? Wonder Woman vs Miss Marvel/Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers)? Wonder Woman vs Sailor Moon? Superman vs Thor/Sentry/Hyperion? Sailor Mars vs Wonder Woman? Batman vs The Punisher? Supergirl vs Sailor Moon/Sailor Mars? Supergirl vs Miss Marvel/Captain Marvel? Some female King of Fighter character like Mai Shiranui or hot female character from a japanese fighting game franchise I like vs some female DC or Marvel street-level character? Some other Capcom vs SNK match-up than Mai vs Chun Li and Terry Bogard vs Ken? Justice League vs The Avengers?

Well nice to know.

There's also massive Goku, HST, Kratos, and to an extent some Superman wank going on reddit right now.

Well I can't say that I'm not honestly surprised nor shocked to hear that coming from all of you guys here.

Why do you believe modern SF is worse than modern DB? What about both franchises as a whole at their peak?

VSBW now thinks Kratos and GoW-verse is Low Complex Multiversal now simply because Athena ascended to "muh higher plane in heaven". WTF is that shit bro?

Okay so just to make it pretty clear, mate, I'm not crazy or insane then? At least not completely right?

Okay fine, regardless of whether Goku beating Ryu in composite form is true or not, at least please tell me you guys don't also buy VSBW's current stance on Dragon Ball Super being Tier Low 1-C with Zeno or even Dragon Ball Xenos/Heroes being Tier Low 1-C and above. Let alone Jumpforce wank (which I see a lot on YT Shorts and TikTok). Or can at least some of us agree that Ryu and Street Fighter still beats Goku and Dragon Ball (the franchise in its current state especially) in the only thing that matters: quality?

Well no actually on the contrary, I found them from a Street Fighter UDON Comics thread on VSBW (yeah it's a shitty site with pretty sussy scaling and standards I know...) posted in 2021 and a poster named LIFE_OF_KING provided scans for them: https://vsbattles.com/threads/about-street-fighters-udon-comics.121822/#post-4013783 Even though most of the links to said scans are broken now. And I dunno what his current stance are on them now. He might have changed. Make of what you will.

Where does this forum scale Xenos and Heroes precisely? And I thought this was just regular composite canon Goku with no Xeno/Heroes against Composite Ryu here? I read from somewhere that the Udon comics Street Fighter does have an infinite multiverse created by Violence and Stillness (with Akuma scaling to them) and that a Fetus of God transcends it. Not making this shit up lol.

How in the fuck did Composite Ryu lost? If we want to take crossover logic to its most radical extremities, wouldn't Composite Ryu scale to Marvel vs Capcom (with Thanos saying that Satsui no Hado is stronger than all the Infinity Gems), Smash Ultimate, and Udon Comics Street Fighters (which itself has an infinite multiverse with the Fetus of God transcending it)? Shouldn't that make Ryu orders of magnitude above at least DBS Goku? Can anyone tell me what's going on here? @Blade