Aleister Crowley vs Dr. Doom

[xenos5]

Changes everything. You tried to pass off Doom both fighting Beyonder and siphoning his power as his own feats when:

1) This was Doom with Galactus’ Power Cosmic, not himself

2) Beyonder was literally telling him not to get too close to him, as just the power he passively radiates was killing him

That’s great. Too bad this is a random encounter so unless you can argue Doom stores the device he used to steal Galactus power up his ass and can activate and strap himself to it, it’s not mattering here

I think the whole "tank the Big Bang" argument is pretty much missing the point

the spell is voodoo shit, it doesn't necessarily correlate to you actually tanking that level of force (not that Aleister can't make the Big Bang real, per se)

Doom is well versed in magic though, second only to the Sorceror Supreme. So it being “voodoo shit” shouldn’t really stop him from absorbing the magic or cosmic or whatever other kind of energy that makes up the spell.

And Doom’s Cosmic Power Siphon has been used multiple times aside from Secret Wars http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/cosmicpowerharness.htm

It is as Standard as Standard Equipment gets.

 

[Astaro]

Doom is well versed in magic though, second only to the Sorceror Supreme. So it being “voodoo shit” shouldn’t really stop him from absorbing the magic or cosmic or whatever other kind of energy that makes up the spell.

Doubt it when it’s going off directly in his own body. Especially with all the numerous times he’s had to rely on armor and shield to survive shit

And Doom’s Cosmic Power Siphon has been used multiple times aside from Secret Wars http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/cosmicpowerharness.htm

It is as Standard as Standard Equipment gets.

That enormous device for Galactus that he made just for that issue with help from Klaww is very much NOT standard equipment.

An incapacitated Surfer that needed to be strapped in, failed to prevent Reed from destroying a device that only managed to take a small bit of Firestorm’s power.

Neat?

But that kind of absorption speeding isn’t stopping a Big Bang going off in 10-44 seconds

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Doubt it when it’s going off directly in his own body. Especially with all the numerous times he’s had to rely on armor and shield to survive shit

Again, HOW is it going to enter his body if the spell has to infiltrate Doom's mind to know what he's thinking to hit him with? This is even stated in the very text you use.
Saying it does so because you state so is not a debate tactic any would agree with.

That enormous device for Galactus that he made just for that issue with help from Klaww is very much NOT standard equipment.

There are many other times he was able to absorb the powers of people well beyond the scope of Universal with just his suit though?

But that kind of absorption speeding isn’t stopping a Big Bang going off in 10-44 seconds

...That is horrifically slow in the process of thought that is Doom and Reed Richards, the fuck?

 

[Astaro]

Again, HOW is it going to enter his body if the spell has to infiltrate Doom's mind to know what he's thinking to hit him with? This is even stated in the very text you use.
Saying it does so because you state so is not a debate tactic any would agree with.

By the Big Bang being his own thoughts in his head given form?

There are many other times he was able to absorb the powers of people well beyond the scope of Universal with just his suit though?

Post them

...That is horrifically slow in the process of thought that is Doom and Reed Richards, the fuck?

Citation needed

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Yes, because it causing his daughters death and the rest of the Golden Dawn who he used to break bread and call friends not giving a fuck was the last straw for him. What am I leaving out?

I really do feel that you have somehow missed fucking EVERYTHING I stated to basically go with an interpretation that I never said.

You need to explain exactly how this correlated to Overlord which you haven’t.

Literally explained how multiple times
Somehow it's not a correlation
Somehow never stated how when I did

Time is a fucking circle

Alright, then I'll make this insanely simple to you:
Magic being able to massively affect the "Multiverse" through sheer Causality usage is not the "insane power and hax" you think it is and it's just nonsense that shows how unstable the Universe is.
In the same fashion where The New World literally is all Magic and thus the laws of physics doesn't exist(and it's proven that falling from terminal velocity somehow INCREASES your speed which goes against Newton's Laws).

You can't say that Marvel's Universe is a mess when To Aru's is honestly in a similar boat with far less time and though.

Not collisions. Just brushes and scrapes and Magic simply increases how often they do so.

Collisions is Coronzon’s plan

THAT IS NOT HELPING YOUR POINT!

And you’re doing it again. Just whining it doesn’t make sense.

Take it up with Kamachi how Crowley is able to make you think of the Big Bang by just imitating a pair of binoculars

There’s nothing else for me to do then provide the scans and feats of Crowley doing just that.

 

[Astaro]

I really do feel that you have somehow missed fucking EVERYTHING I stated to basically go with an interpretation that I never said.

This just sounds like your preparing another tangent

Time is a fucking circle

Alright, then I'll make this insanely simple to you:
Magic being able to massively affect the "Multiverse" through sheer Causality usage is not the "insane power and hax" you think it is and it's just nonsense that shows how unstable the Universe is.

No, just how magic in the verse works.

In the same fashion where The New World literally is all Magic and thus the laws of physics doesn't exist(and it's proven that falling from terminal velocity somehow INCREASES your speed which goes against Newton's Laws).

The only thing this does is make feats in Overlord hard to quantify since physics are outright stated to be ignored, so we pretty much ignore this shit from the author for the sake of being able to measure and quantify the verse.

That’s not the case here, since you very much can still apply physics to determine yield or speed of spells in Toaru.

The only difference between Toaru and any other Magic system is that Toaru’s interferes with the laws of causality to make the results happen.

So as I predicted, this is another derailing tangent

You can't say that Marvel's Universe is a mess when To Aru's is honestly in a similar boat with far less time and though.

Hmm… nah. Not when you got to deliberately ignore context to make Doom look better then he actually is.

No one on the Toaru side is doing this.

THAT IS NOT HELPING YOUR POINT!

It is. Slight bumps are not pulling apart the entire universe. Just causing twists of fate nobody notices unless their magicians

 

[Gordo]

Tbh I don’t know if that’s good for a durability feat. Thanos held back on them because he wanted the fight to look more competitive and impress Death (and he also subconsciously held back because he wanted to lose, but that was revealed later on)

Thanos ends up killing all of them too, even when he was holding back. The gauntlet revives them later

Posting context here

Statements that Thanos lowered his power to impress Death moments before that scene with Doom happened. He does it to give the illusion the others have a chance even though they didn’t

I’ll pull up the scan about Thanos subconsciously holding back in fights in a bit

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

By the Big Bang being his own thoughts in his head given form?

HOW. WOULD. THAT. GET. INTO. HIS. HEAD! If Emma Frost couldn't, if a Phoenix boosted Rachel Summers couldn't, then how would Aliester Crowley do so! I'm gonna be 100% with you, you have not given a single reason why this would happen past "It would".

So I'm honestly asking you with no malice at all and no bullshit:

How would Aliester Crowley be able to do that very thing to Doctor Doom? How does his Skipping work?

Post them

We have literally stated and shown them throughout this thread so please, answer our question in how would Aliester do what he does.

Citation needed

You mean the people able to create gadgets that can literally bend gods to their whims and bind whole ass Multiverses together? Like do I have to tell you what Reed Richards was doing with his Family after Secret Wars(2015) was done? They was recreating the Multiverse, one Universe and everything in it at a time...
And Reed was doing the brainpower portion of it. Pretty sure individually recreating Multiverses with everything precisely the way they are... kinda requires insane, on the fly massive computational skills.

This just sounds like your preparing another tangent

Nah, too bored and tired of doing it with To Aru to be frank.

No, just how magic in the verse works.

And it works fucking terribly is what I'm telling you.

The only thing this does is make feats in Overlord hard to quantify since physics are outright stated to be ignored, so we pretty much ignore this shit from the author for the sake of being able to measure and quantify the verse.

That’s not the case here, since you very much can still apply physics to determine yield or speed of spells in Toaru.

The only difference between Toaru and any other Magic system is that Toaru’s interferes with the laws of causality to make the results happen.

So as I predicted, this is another derailing tangent

I do not understand how you keep missing the goddamned planet for the tree...
But apparently so, you just keep missing the point entirely to then ramble at me for acting as if I'm going on unnecessary and needless tangents...

Hmm… nah. Not when you got to deliberately ignore context to make Doom look better then he actually is.

No one on the Toaru side is doing this.

No... we don't, I can't believe I have to say something so basic but apparently too much To Aru destroys common sense and decency so whatever...

It is. Slight bumps are not pulling apart the entire universe. Just causing twists in fate nobody notices unless their magicians

...If you aren't even gonna be honest anymore, I'm done here...
Absolute waste of my time

I do want to know what you are smoking though so I can recommend it to Nihilus, he would probably smoke a To Aru page to get the biggest hit he has ever had.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Posting context here

Statements that Thanos lowered his power to impress Death moments before that scene with Doom happened. He does it to give the illusion the others have a chance even though they didn’t

I’ll pull up the scan about Thanos subconsciously holding back in fights in a bit

I know what you are talking about but that was done WELL after the fact and shouldn't be placed anywhere considering the fact all that it means is Thanos was to subconsciously lose, it doesn't mean he won't try and win.

 

[Gordo]

I know what you are talking about but that was done WELL after the fact and shouldn't be placed anywhere considering the fact all that it means is Thanos was to subconsciously lose, it doesn't mean he won't try and win.

Sure, but he did hold back in this fight because he wanted it to look like some epic battle and swoon Death. It failed because she already knew he was holding back and they never stood a chance

Doom has impressive feats, I just don’t think this one is applicable

 

[Paxton]

Xhom's version of Toaru sure is strange

I remember that time a normal magician used a random spell and destroyed the Sephiroth on the conceptual level (or whatever buzzword you'd like to use)
oh wait the verse isn't as unstable as he's trying to twist it (sparks and sprays are just a symptom anyway)

(Same guy who still won't answer me where he got Imagine Breaker empowering the Invisible Thing from btw)


It's just a particular quirk of the magic system dude. All of this is an actual tangent.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Sure, but he did hold back in this fight because he wanted it to look like some epic battle and swoon Death. It failed because she already knew he was holding back and they never stood a chance

Doom has impressive feats, I just don’t think this one is applicable

That's still not how that works though because again, having the subconscious desire to lose =/= having the consciousness to lose.
Those are entirely 2 different things you mixed up and even that's not true considering the times Thanos won or that it only ever happens when he has the fully assembled Infinity Gauntlet.

 

[Gordo]

That's still not how that works though because again, having the subconscious desire to lose =/= having the consciousness to lose.
Those are entirely 2 different things you mixed up and even that's not true considering the times Thanos won or that it only ever happens when he has the fully assembled Infinity Gauntlet.

I’m talking about this specific fight with the scans I posted above. Let’s forget about the subconscious thing since that’ll lead to a pointless back and forth

 

[Flowering Knight]

Posts context to show that Thanos was lowering his power
Said context has Thanos state that he lowered everything but his power

I don't like Marvel wank as much as the next guy but this is just disingenuous.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

I’m talking about this specific fight with the scans I posted above. Let’s forget about the subconscious thing since that’ll lead to a pointless back and forth

Okay, moving away from the subconsciousness thing, what you put up doesn't really defeat the point at all.
Mephisto basically got Thanos to act how he did so that the Heroes and Villains can court with death so he can win her favor... how and why does this mean that Thanos didn't go all in to hurt Doom?
His statement was him wanting to kill EVERYONE and Mephisto only veto'd against that.
Thanos could have very well wanted to kill Doom there and it wouldn't have disrupted one iota.

 

[Gordo]

I don't like Marvel wank as much as the next guy but this is just disingenuous.

“I could kill them with a thought”

“My diminished capacity”

How strong do you believe the Infinity Gauntlet is without all the reality warping behind it? Like tell me how strong you think the blasts are

 

[Astaro]

HOW. WOULD. THAT. GET. INTO. HIS. HEAD! If Emma Frost couldn't, if a Phoenix boosted Rachel Summers couldn't, then how would Aliester Crowley do so! I'm gonna be 100% with you, you have not given a single reason why this would happen past "It would".

Because it’s already in his head to begin with.

It’s. His. Own. Thoughts.

So I'm honestly asking you with no malice at all and no bullshit:

How would Aliester Crowley be able to do that very thing to Doctor Doom? How does his Skipping work?

Read first page. Post #7 and #10

We have literally stated and shown them throughout this thread so please, answer our question in how would Aliester do what he does.

A big ass device for Galactus he needed time and outside help from Klaww to make and lying about both Beyonder and IG Thanos

Not a good look so far.

You mean the people able to create gadgets that can literally bend gods to their whims and bind whole ass Multiverses together? Like do I have to tell you what Reed Richards was doing with his Family after Secret Wars(2015) was done? They was recreating the Multiverse, one Universe and everything in it at a time...

Citation needed.

And Reed was doing the brainpower portion of it. Pretty sure individually recreating Multiverses with everything precisely the way they are... kinda requires insane, on the fly massive computational skills.

Citation needed. So far you haven’t posted anything.

Nah, too bored and tired of doing it with To Aru to be frank.

K

And it works fucking terribly is what I'm telling you.

It doesn’t. It just so happened one such twist of fate caused by the sparks and spray leading to his daughters unavoidable death and his cabal buddies not giving a fuck threw Crowley over the edge and made him decide to destroy all Magic

It’s not unreliable, Crowley just hates mages for freely using their powers without any regard for how it indirectly affects the lives of others but he still uses it when he needs to as his greatest weapon because it is that reliable, just taking persuasions so that all the backlash from sparks and sprays gets nulled through techniques he’s developed like sacrificing one of his possibilities to take the full brunt of it

Have I answered your questions about how Crowley feels towards Magic and that it has nothing to do with Magic itself being useless, just coming at a cost he can’t stand?

I do not understand how you keep missing the goddamned planet for the tree...
But apparently so, you just keep missing the point entirely to then ramble at me for acting as if I'm going on unnecessary and needless tangents...

…

No... we don't, I can't believe I have to say something so basic but apparently too much To Aru destroys common sense and decency so whatever...

Let’s see. CrossTheHorizon lied out of his teeth about Doom surviving anything from the Infinity Gauntlet when it was Thanos purposefully sandbagging and nerfing himself to put up a convincing show for Death and only doubled down on his bullshit when called out for it

Oh there’s that time Doom fought the Beyonder only Nope. Its was Doom with all of Galactus powers added to himself and Beyond’s passive radiating energy alone destroying him anyway

...If you aren't even gonna be honest anymore, I'm done here...
Absolute waste of my time

Said the same thing to Cross when I put him on Ignore

Should practice what you preach.

I do want to know what you are smoking though so I can recommend it to Nihilus, he would probably smoke a To Aru page to get the biggest hit he has ever had.

Don’t smoke.

Just finished having some of the best fucking wine for dinner tonight though

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

“I could kill them with a thought”

“My diminished capacity”

How strong do you believe the Infinity Gauntlet is without all the reality warping behind it?

...

I only need to cut myself off from all Sensory Input from Time, Space, Reality, Thought and Soul... I WOULD RETAIN LIMITLESS POWER YET NOT KNOW MY ENEMIES' NEXT MOVE

Apparently it's a thing to selectively read scans...

 

[Gordo]

...

Apparently it's a thing to selectively read scans...

Did you read my response before typing?

 

[Flowering Knight]

“I could kill them with a thought”

“My diminished capacity”

How strong do you believe the Infinity Gauntlet is without all the reality warping behind it? Like tell me how strong you think the blasts are

Take away the reality warping and hax and you still have megaversal levels of power. The Infinity Gauntlet isn't just hax, it's all the possible power in the multiverse.