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Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 1: OBD 2027 prologue edition

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Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member


:mjlol
And yet the Yhawch mistook Haschwalth's vision as a dream. And messing with the past is canonically a weakness of the Almighty. (Antithesis and Bookmark Of The End) Which Merlin was able to do in LB6 with that bringing up memories of the earth.

Nor is it ever said he sees all futures just that he can choose the ones he wants.
 


:mjlol

1. Kyoka Suigetsu didn't actually fool Yhwach that way. Yhwach was so focused on one timeline, he didn't even bother to see if he was under KS at all which was an error of his human consciousness(Which is funny how people ignored that).

2. Merlin AND Francios Prelati can very much fool the NASUVERSE EARTH which has shown to basically shut down Reality Marbles and anything that doesn't belong it and fooled Enkidu/Kingu despite using that same Earth to detect people:
Presence Detection: A+
Highest rank of Presence Detection ability. Via the Earth, is able to sense the presence of things at long range. If close range, an equal or lower rank of Presence Concealment can be nullified.

Enkidu’s Presence Detection lets him sense Gilgamesh and Alcides are fighting and that they’re equally powerful. It also lets him sense Hipplyta.

“Gil... seems to be fighting someone strong...”
Enkidu abruptly stopped what he was doing and turned his gaze to the northeast of the forest. It was merely an expanse of tress, but Enkidu could see something else. Using his Sense Presence skill, he was able to sense Gil’s strong aura from afar, as well as another, equally powerful presence.



“Oh?”
With the result that, barely a few minutes later, he sensed another abnormality. Another, entirely different presence had suddenly appeared right beside where his friend and the other were fighting.
“Another presence... and another strong one.”

Richard’s Rounds of Lionheart vs Enkidu’s Boundary Field and Enkidu’s ability to perceive it.

“You’ve done well to make it this far, although I doubt you could have managed it unless you are loved by the forest, or have some special power.”
“I got Locksley — a friend of mine — to show me the way.”
“Oh? I see. You do appear to have a lot of friends.”
Saber answered Lancer’s words with a broad grin.
“You can see them?”
“A little.”
[/QUOTE]
Fate/Strange Fake Volume 3 said:
Enkidu senses the summons of Sigma’s Servants

“...”
Enkidu, who possessed the highest class of the “sense presence” skill, sensed a certain “abnormality.” He did not, however, think that it might be due to the summoning of a Heroic Spirit.
He narrowed his eyes slightly, and cast them apologetically down at the ground.
“I wonder... if I’ve angered them a little.”
The only one to hear the Heroic Spirit’s words was the silver wolf crouched beside him.
Without anyone to understand them, Enkidu’s words were absorbed into the dense foliage.


Enkidu detects/senses Zealot’s presence despite Presence Concealment. Not even Richard noticed her.

Lancer placed a wild fruit in Saber’s outstretched hand, then turned to the trees a short distance away, and asked again.
“Would you like some as well? You’ve been watching us for some time; you must be hungry.”
“...Huh?”
“What?”
Ayaka and Saber turned, wide-eyed, just in time to see a lone figure emerge from the trees. It was the black-clad Heroic Spirit who had been present when Ayaka and Saber first met.
“Ah!”
“I’m surprised. Not even I noticed her,” Saber said, steeling every nerve in his body to fight at any moment.

Here are some examples...
And here's Illusion:
Illusion: A
A skill that denotes excellence in the art of illusion within the field of magecraft. At this level, it is even possible to go beyond people and deceive the environment.
Illusion: A
Magic that bewilder others. An interference of the mind, indicating false image projection and the likes to the real world.
With A rank, he can lightly produce a false image on the level of 1 village in the real world and fool everybody with it, much less a nightmare within the mind.


Fate/Strange Fake Volume 3 said:
Francois Prelati employs illusions to entrap Gilgamesh, Hippolyta, Alcides, and Tine. Gilgamesh sees right through it (as does Hippolyta). Additionally mimics Enkidu as an illusion to piss off Gilgamesh.

“Alright, that’s enough of that.”
Just as all three Heroic Spirits seemed about to make their moves, the guileless voice of a boy echoed through the snow-covered forest that extended as far as the eye could see.
“...What?”
Tine’s bewildered exclamation came a moment after the boy’s interruption.
“...!?”
“!”
“...”
The queen widened her eyes in shock, the bowman narrowed his eyes slightly, and the King of Heroes ran a suspicious eye over the surrounding scenery.
They should have been standing in a large ravine with only sparse vegetation. And yet, before the boy’s words even had time to register, trees completely filled their view. They were standing in the midst of a forest dominated by the white of the snow that lay thick on conifers, overwhelming the hues of their needles and bark.
Powdered snow fell on Tine’s bare, slender arms, and she felt the chill through her skin.
Forced teleportation?
As she hurriedly gathered a layer of air around herself for protection, Tine attempted to conjecture what had happened to them.
But such advanced magecraft — practically Magic — just isn’t...!
Currently, there was nowhere near Snowfield where it would be possible to see scenery like this. There was the great forest to the west, but the variety of trees was different, and, despite the name “Snowfield,” actual snowfall was rare in the region.
It was also possible that they had been drawn into another world — a unique space called a “Reality Marble” — by a Servant. Tine had heard that there were Heroic Spirits that employed such techniques.
And yet, Tine’s Servant, the King of Heroes, showed no particular sign of alarm.
“Do not lose your head,” he told her. “It is merely an illusion.”
“An illusion...?”
Illusion was a diverse type of general-purpose magecraft. It could be used for concealing a specified place, confusing senses of direction in a specified area, or even cast on oneself to aid in training or reinforce suggestion. Most ordinary illusions, however, were ineffective against targets possessing Magic Circuits above a certain level, or a Magic Crest. As a result, very few mages attempted to master it as anything more than convenient, general-use magecraft. In fact, Tine had experienced having an illusion cast on her in the past, but she was linked to the leylines of the land, and had strengthened her senses through them, so it had had no effect on her.
In the present circumstance, however, she could feel the cold even through the leylines.
...Going by magical energy links, we’re definitely still in a canyon in the land of my ancestors... This really is an illusion, then... But could there really be an illusion powerful enough to fool not just human senses... but the land itself as well!?
How many human mages could have reached that level? With a special medium, such as powerful Mystic Eyes, it would be a different story, but in ordinary circumstances an illusion of that level would be considered beyond the realm of human mages.
...A new Servant!
She could not tell if this was the work of a Noble Phantasm, or of raw magecraft. At the very least, however, it was highly probable that the owner of that boy’s voice was a new Servant.



The boy’s voice carried through the entire snowy forest, but it was impossible to pin down where it had come from. It was almost as if each individual snowflake was acting as a speaker for it.
Gilgamesh acted as if he had not heard the voice, and spoke with a tone of mild displeasure:
“To think that there was another mannerless ruffian waiting to spoil my entertainment at the last moment. I do not know what you are after, but did you imagine you could deceive my eyes with this paltry illusion?”



“Then how about your ears, Gil?”
Tine turned, and saw a Heroic Spirit. A Heroic Spirit with a face and build that could be taken for either male or female, and to which an indefinable trace of youth clung. A smooth, lean body that reminded Tine of a perfected beast. Features so graceful and beautiful that it did not seem to matter if they were male or female.
This Servant is...
Tine was immediately able to recognize what the entity that had appeared suddenly behind her was. She had only viewed the events from a distance, through a familiar, but this was certainly the Heroic Spirit Gilgamesh had confronted immediately after manifesting; the one he had made the crater in the desert with.
Based on their timing and words, however, Tine also immediately recognized that this must be an illusory fake.
In that case, how would the King of Heroes react? Before Tine could finish turning to look at him, Merodach flashed in his hand and dispersed the illusory Heroic Spirit.
“Who gave you permission to mimic my friend’s form and voice?”
A searing tremor crossed the pass between them to shake Tine’s Magic Circuits. She was able to imagine that the King of Heroes was likely seething with cold rage, rather than abandoning himself to an outburst of emotion.



At that point, a crushing noise sounded from a distance away, and tress that were supposed to be products of illusion made very real splintering sounds as they were mowed down.
The illusion was apparently visible to the queen as well. She looked up at the sky, her face a mask of rage, and shouted:
“Don’t mock me! Where are you? Show yourself, dealer in deceptions!”

Here's more examples of this here:

And yeah, it did very much manage to fool Kingu:


So they aren't even remotely comparable.
 

Paxton

One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds
V.I.P. Member
I don't even think Yhwach "nullified" Ichibei's power. I always interpreted that as him simply shifting to a future where he doesn't get hit/plain old power null resistance. Not power null itself.

Though not sure how that explains Ichibei getting blasted apart.
 
I don't even think Yhwach "nullified" Ichibei's power. I always interpreted that as him simply shifting to a future where he doesn't get hit/plain old power null resistance. Not power null itself.

Though not sure how that explains Ichibei getting blasted apart.

I usually believed Yhwach simply made it so Ichibei's attack hit him which was why he was blasted apart. Besides, if Yhwach could Null Abilities, Ichigo should never be able to have killed Yhwach since Ichigo's Bankai wasn't difficult to understand even in it's true form.
 

Paxton

One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds
V.I.P. Member
I usually believed Yhwach simply made it so Ichibei's attack hit him which was why he was blasted apart. Besides, if Yhwach could Null Abilities, Ichigo should never be able to have killed Yhwach since Ichigo's Bankai wasn't difficult to understand even in it's true form.
I feel like you could just interpret that as Ichigo's Bankai not really having an ability to nullify.
It's likely just another stat boost tbh.
 

OtherGalaxy

ยสี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่ สี่สี
V.I.P. Member
but fr im talking about guys like huey who go out of their way to downplay other series whenever they go up against dc. it's just kinda weird

i think dc has created some of the coolest shit in comics
 

Maddie

Acclaimed
but fr im talking about guys like huey who go out of their way to downplay other series whenever they go up against dc. it's just kinda weird

i think dc has created some of the coolest shit in comics
I think my problem with DC is I am absolutely incapable of accepting DC has unjustifiable/unexplanable inconsistencies and I am dead-set on creating a coherent narrative/study on feats, scaling, and cosmology when DC is only barely better than Marvel when it comes to scaling and has recently gone out of its way to shit on all these things
 

OtherGalaxy

ยสี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่ สี่สี
V.I.P. Member
I think my problem with DC is I am absolutely incapable of accepting DC has unjustifiable/unexplanable inconsistencies and I am dead-set on creating a coherent narrative/study on feats, scaling, and cosmology when DC is only barely better than Marvel when it comes to scaling and has recently gone out of its way to shit on all these things
yeah I don't think any series in theory is truly unable to be reconciled, it's just a more difficult task the bigger it is and the more writers contribute to it

I would think as weird as hypertime is though that it would actually make it a little easier, since now nothing has been retconned
it may not always make sense, but it's still canon
transformers has always done it that way and it's worked for them
 
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