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Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 4 Part 2: Electric Boogaloo

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Ayon enters the Soul Society Arc

He fights every character in the arc from weakest to strongest. How far does he get? R1: pre-TS Ayon R2: post-TS Ayon Discuss
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Mar55 said:
Ayon unironically has better feats than most captains in the Soul Society arc, not sure why everybody is saying he can't beat any besides obvious bias.
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You had better be talking about post-skip Allon here. :really
Mar55 said:
But it's not really that important, I just meant Ayon's stomping on several VC level characters absolutely makes him a threat capable of comparing to a Captain.
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Oh my fucking God you're talking about pre-skip Allon. :heston

"Stomping several Lieutenant level characters makes him a threat comparable to the Captains."
Since fucking when? :breh

SS Hitsugaya knocked Hinamori out cold with a casual fucking backhand and Gin heavily implied even that was overkill.
Literally right after knocking out Hinamori, Hitsugaya almost kills Izuru by accident with a GLANCING blow from his SHIKAI.
Byakuya stomped BANKAI Renji with a couple of chantless kido, he didn't even need his fucking sword.
Shikai Ichigo knocked out three Lieutenants bare-handed while holding back.

Lieutenants aren't jack shit to Captains. The only one Allon beat who was worth a damn was Hisagi and, funny enough, he was also the only one who actually put up a fight, even managing to put the big bastard on his ass.

Nothing he did (pre-skip anyway) was more impressive than any Captain, even SS arc Captains. So no, pre-skip Allon is not beating any of them regardless of the arc they're from. Post-skip Allon is a completely different story.
 
Thegoldenboy2188 said:
Eeeh. While it's never stated it can Mahoraga does go from vomiting cause of a normal punch from Gojo to tanking multiple black flashes.

So it probably did increase its durability.

Not that would anyway save him from a normal herc assault though.
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True but people are just throwing shit around and then be like "Mahoraga died to Sukuna's overcharged Fire Arrow meaning that's his max" when it's like no, that's not how that works...
 

Yes? Anime Mahoraga adapts differently than his Manga self. It literally gets stronger and faster in order to keep up with Sukuna. It goes from being reduced to salsa by MS to going "Nuh uh" within seconds. It fucking shapeshifts to Kaiju size and grows gills (never happened in the manga). It's regeneration, adaptation speed and physical stats are literally orders of magnitude better than the manga stuff.

Anime Mahoraga is an entirely different creature from its Manga version.
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Okay, I'm genuinely sorry for spamming Mahoraga threads from SB but we are getting into the absolutely insane takes now:


No? Fate has dozens of sequels over two decades where every successive series escalates the scale of fighting, whereas JJK has only one manga (and the anime) which is like 5 years old. So limiting Berserker to feats from one work isn't an issue.

Besides, even with FGO scaling Berserker would still run into the problem of not having an AoE attack that'd instantly vaporize Mahoraga.
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1. Yes, it IS a general issue to limit Heracles that low considering the Fate Franchise has consistently stated the Throne of Heroes does not change a Servant's ability in any way, it's only the Master and the way they are summoned that changes the Servant in any way.

2. Heracles needs an AOE attack to kill Mahoraga!?! Even with FGO Scaling!? Fucking what?! So Goku can't obliterate this man with a punch then?
 
LeonLex said:

I guess that being dropped from an airship and taking no damage is somehow unquantifiable as a durability feat.
DS demons take damage from an old model shotgun.

Dumbfuckery 2:

That attack lifted a few cars at most and it wasn't "several meters".

It gets better:

Combat speed isn't travel speed.
Then again:

We are reaching some new heights:

Jack can't fucking cut a boulder, that's where we are now?

No special sword needed.
The best destruction feat of DS was from Muzan destroying a wood house. And the ice guy built a statue

would you bring the panel where these characters deseperately tried to dodge the attack but alas, were unable to due it's ungodly speed that they could never hope to follow?

Rules for me but not for thee.
Context matters now.
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dont these speed arguments work against the insane speed stacking they use for KnY too? Those characters aren't travelling vast distances in fractions of seconds either

this happens in every action series regardless of what speed feats a character has
 
At least one whole day without mentioning Mahoraga or JJK in general on here Challenge (Impossible)
 
I would legit stop talking about Mahoraga if the arguments had some actual basis and it's not the typical "same old, same old" from SB.
Alas it's not and unfortunately, people will wank the "Anime" Mahoraga till the ends of the earth... or whenever they lose interest, whatever happens first.

OtherGalaxy said:
dont these speed arguments work against the insane speed stacking they use for KnY too? Those characters aren't travelling vast distances in fractions of seconds either

this happens in every action series regardless of what speed feats a character has
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Of course it does but SB has never been know for common sense.
Like it's not hard at all to find a speed feat for Samurai Jack that eclipses anything from DS, the easiest one is when we get a full on action sequence from Jack taking out a squad of elite bounty hunters by the time a water droplet falls from a hanging icicle to the ground.
What's even more absurd is that an earlier episode shows Jack using his Geta is actually a HANDICAP as just giving him shoes makes him be able to keep up with futuristic bikers and even the Warrior Race(Similar to Predators) he had issues with previously.
 
OtherGalaxy said:
he's able to dodge machine gun fire quite easily even in season 1 iirc. I'm not sure why that gets ignored so much
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It's not like he even needs that considering the fact that like in Season 2 or so, we literally see Jack jumping distances that are quite frankly impossible for most beings and that was after basically training with weights that are as bad as Rock Lee's.

shiny said:
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I read a bit of that and it's like people miss Shirou and Archer can control the blades that are in their Reality Marble and just start chucking them at people like GoB, hell, they can even do so without creating the Reality Marble itself, just using basic Projection which is how Caster is killed...

EDIT: This is also ignoring everyone else here is like Mach 3+ while Miyuverse Shirou would scale far further than that due to being able to keep up with Servant Cards even before he becomes "Archer".
 
Xhominid The Apex said:
I read a bit of that and it's like people miss Shirou and Archer can control the blades that are in their Reality Marble and just start chucking them at people like GoB, hell, they can even do so without creating the Reality Marble itself, just using basic Projection which is how Caster is killed...

EDIT: This is also ignoring everyone else here is like Mach 3+ while Miyuverse Shirou would scale far further than that due to being able to keep up with Servant Cards even before he becomes "Archer".
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JJK is a sub-megaton franchise that struggles to broach baseline hypersonic. The only person that used lightning to attack shit did so in the context of it acting as a sure hit attack. Not even Sukuna could react, he was forced to use his resurrection to his Heian form by Kashimo landing it and forcing the need to regenerate.

Which makes me wonder how to treat Kashimo’s random generic projectile. Is it just composed of EM Radiation or does it actually function like it in terms of propagation speed? The former would be like treating Ganondorf’s deadman volley magic attacks as lightning because they’re composed of electricity during charge up for example. The latter would be kosher, but an oddity.

All that to say Shirou Emiya outclasses the lot.
 
ChaosTheory123 said:
JJK is a sub-megaton franchise that struggles to broach baseline hypersonic. The only person that used lightning to attack shit did so in the context of it acting as a sure hit attack. Not even Sukuna could react, he was forced to use his resurrection to his Heian form by Kashimo landing it and forcing the need to regenerate.

Which makes me wonder how to treat Kashimo’s random generic projectile. Is it just composed of EM Radiation or does it actually function like it in terms of propagation speed? The former would be like treating Ganondorf’s deadman volley magic attacks as lightning because they’re composed of electricity during charge up for example. The latter would be kosher, but an oddity.

All that to say Shirou Emiya outclasses the lot.
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That is a very good point considering the fact that we do know Gege does research into stuff like this but the issue is that it very obviously doesn't translate well(See Infinity and how he tried to work with Black Flash through Exponents before realizing how huge the difference really is). So while we can say that Kashimo does turn into electricity, it's hard to say if what he fires off is EM Radiation because again Gege has a horrible history of making it make sense without immediately going "Ah, I fucked it".

The bigger problem, as you stated, is that Shirou Emiya would outclass the shit out of them due to the simple shit he scales to which would include Svin dodging Lightning from Atrum(Which is also in Manga form).
 
Xhominid The Apex said:
Okay, I'm genuinely sorry for spamming Mahoraga threads from SB but we are getting into the absolutely insane takes now:




1. Yes, it IS a general issue to limit Heracles that low considering the Fate Franchise has consistently stated the Throne of Heroes does not change a Servant's ability in any way, it's only the Master and the way they are summoned that changes the Servant in any way.

2. Heracles needs an AOE attack to kill Mahoraga!?! Even with FGO Scaling!? Fucking what?! So Goku can't obliterate this man with a punch then?
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Mahoraga died vs a CB level attack .While Heracles with only Stay Night feats and statements is a casual mountain buster.
 
Xhominid The Apex said:
That is a very good point considering the fact that we do know Gege does research into stuff like this but the issue is that it very obviously doesn't translate well(See Infinity and how he tried to work with Black Flash through Exponents before realizing how huge the difference really is). So while we can say that Kashimo does turn into electricity, it's hard to say if what he fires off is EM Radiation because again Gege has a horrible history of making it make sense without immediately going "Ah, I fucked it".
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More just the wording of how the EM radiation applies was awkward. Like I said, could very well be EM radiation, but also not propagate the same speed as the projectile merely contains it rather than behaving like it in propagation. Pretty common for balls of light and lightning in fiction to be composed of both, but still move slower than their respective natural states of existence. Especially evident when they can be compared to actual bolts of lightning and rays of light for example.
Xhominid The Apex said:
The bigger problem, as you stated, is that Shirou Emiya would outclass the shit out of them due to the simple shit he scales to which would include Svin dodging Lightning from Atrum(Which is also in Manga form).
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This Shirou is literally just EMIYA in function. The stock of UBW would be overkill, but its totality neutered enough kick from Enuma Elish for Shirou to endure the bit he couldn’t negate.

Mind, even a less developed Shirou is more than capable of handling the speed of characters like Herakles mid death blow to generate projections like Caliburn.
 
Tablos said:
Mahoraga died vs a CB level attack .While Heracles with only Stay Night feats and statements is a casual mountain buster.
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To be fair, they further limited Heracles to JUST the Anime and Manga feats... the problem is that Heracles would still mop Mahoraga even then despite what SB says otherwise.

ChaosTheory123 said:
More just the wording of how the EM radiation applies was awkward. Like I said, could very well be EM radiation, but also not propagate the same speed as the projectile merely contains it rather than behaving like it in propagation. Pretty common for balls of light and lightning in fiction to be composed of both, but still move slower than their respective natural states of existence. Especially evident when they can be compared to actual bolts of lightning and rays of light for example.
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Okay, I get the point you are saying now.

ChaosTheory123 said:
This Shirou is literally just EMIYA in function. The stock of UBW would be overkill, but its totality neutered enough kick from Enuma Elish for Shirou to endure the bit he couldn’t negate.

Mind, even a less developed Shirou is more than capable of handling the speed of characters like Herakles mid death blow to generate projections like Caliburn.
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True, but it is funny that really looking into stuff like Case Files and Extella shows that even a simple Mage have insane computational power to rival shit like smartphones. Even if we somehow believe that Shirou is only as fast as they are, it means his reaction skills would still be too much for them to deal with in any way.
 
Xhominid The Apex said:
To be fair, they further limited Heracles to JUST the Anime and Manga feats... the problem is that Heracles would still mop Mahoraga even then despite what SB says otherwise.



Okay, I get the point you are saying now.



True, but it is funny that really looking into stuff like Case Files and Extella shows that even a simple Mage have insane computational power to rival shit like smartphones. Even if we somehow believe that Shirou is only as fast as they are, it means his reaction skills would still be too much for them to deal with in any way.
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Anime Heracles scales from Anime Gilles Monsters , a building sized monster and Medea , in the anime she has city level defenses and Heracles skin = her.
Even the weakest Heracles is still above JJK.
 

Its anti-regeneration ability is just destroying the thing over and over again until it can't regenerate again. It does not stop regeneration like Gae Buidhe.
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Wow, using a passage incorrectly and not even one from Heracle's profile at that...

Nine Lives: The Shooting Hundred Heads

Rank: -
Type: -
Range: -
Maximum Targets: -

Among Hercules’ Noble Phantasms, he trusted this one the most. It was the Noble Phantasm which Hercules used to slay the immortal nine-headed serpent Hydra once upon a time, taking the form of bow and arrow. After killing the Hydra, Hercules could even utilise techniques that emulate the ability of this Noble Phantasm when wielding other weapons. In essence, it is “a high speed attack consisting of nine consecutive strikes, as swift as if the attacks are overlapping”. Even when delivered via sword, spear, or axe, this technique still boasts power on the level of Noble Phantasms. Also, just like Cú Chulainn’s demonic spear Gae Bolg has a technique called “Gae Bolg – Piercing Death Thorn”, Hercules’ technique shares the “Nine Lives – Shooting of Hundred Heads” name with the Noble Phantasm.
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It's not even in Quirinus' profile at that...

『Slaying the Hundred Heads - Roman-Style』

Rank: A
Type: Special Move Noble Phantasm
Range: —
Maximum Targets: Self

Nine Lives - Roma.
The combat method devised by Heracles, the great hero of Greek mythology. Combat information was transmitted by the war-god Mars (Ares), who watched over all of Heracles’ fearsome battles─── or perhaps it sublimated in this new form because of the folklore relating to Romulus where “Heracles is their father”.
School of Heracles, Roman branch.
A flurry of battering fists, which resemble spears of light, which massacres even lifeless monsters, and makes them gush into the starry skies and glitter.
A continuously-active-type Noble Phantasm.
In this work, it is expressed as a skill.
When its True Name is released, it unleashes a battery of ardent light, but in “FateGO” this is fundamentally not used.
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And they both ultimately come from the same thing: Being able to kill the Immortal and even those that have no life or can infinitely regen until they cannot.

Would it be a valid strategy against Mahoraga? Possibly. But Mahoraga doesn't just regenerate, it also adapts, so the question is can Mahoraga keep adapting until Nine Lives stops working or can Herc keep increasing the intensity of attacks until Mahoraga can't regenerate anymore. I can't say for certain myself. Someone more knowledgeable about JJK than me could answer it.
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Why and HOW would Mahoraga adapt to it when it's Nine SIMULTANEOUS STRIKES as we literally see from Shirou's version of it? Even if we use the other versions from the video games/FGO, it would still be too late as Mahoraga takes a long ass time to adapt to it and it's not just 9 normal ass strikes considering the fact it freaking vapes Immortals, those that cannot die and those that infinitely regenerate considering it took a long ass time to adjust to Sukuna's Cleaves despite liberally spamming them.

That's an arbitrary standard isn't it? Op also allows Herc to get feats from 2 anime series (50 episodes), 4 movies, various FSN mangas and the VN. That's way more than JJK's 41 episodes, a movie and the manga. I don't know why you keep complaining about Herc getting a shorter stick when he has, according to your standards, a higher volume of material to base his power level on.

It's not the OP's or JJK's fault that Nasuverse has much more material than 99% of all fictional verses. No need to cry wolf about it.
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No, no, FUCK RIGHT THE HELL OFF with that bullshit! You guys go liberally out of your way to ignore series mechanics to then go "We are only playing fair by using these other ones and pretending no other feats matter" and then, you liberally ignore the feats even in those to then pretend they aren't "consistent" the second they come off concrete.
That's why it's becoming extremely apparent you fucks always fucking play this game with the Nasuverse and ONLY the Nasuverse while pretending you are trying to "play fair" because it is extremely apparent that it's the only franchise you ever do this with.
 
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