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Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 5: Diamonds are fleeting. Stupid lasts forever

Yeah, and what they made was "an atmosphere". Again, air = ki. Can't say it anymore than I have.
Try again

▎Counterargument

While I understand your viewpoint that ki is equated with an atmosphere and that it pervades all spaces, including even the void where existence seems absent, I believe this interpretation misses the nuances of how ki functions thematically and practically within the narratives. The idea that "air equals ki" simplifies a multifaceted concept, reducing it to a mere physical substance rather than acknowledging its deeper implications.

Firstly, equating ki directly with air implies that it exists purely as a byproduct of physical properties. However, within the context of series like "Dragon Ball," ki serves not only as a resource for power but as a representation of the character's will, emotions, and spiritual state. The essence of ki is closely linked to the character’s mental and emotional condition, suggesting that it encompasses far more than just a tangible element found in the atmosphere. Goku's abilities often manifest in moments of emotional intensity or personal growth, highlighting how ki is deeply interwoven with character development and philosophy rather than existing merely as an element in the environment.

Moreover, the notion that ki exists in a hypothetical empty void raises questions about its nature. If we consider an absolute vacuum devoid of any matter or energy, the idea of ki still being present challenges our understanding of both ki and the foundational elements within the narrative. If ki is inherently linked to life and energy, how can it manifest in a place where these concepts do not exist? This contradiction suggests that ki must have a more intricate role, one that transcends mere physical presence and is instead tied to the consciousness and energy of existence itself.

Additionally, while you argue that all things contain an inherent ki, it is crucial to examine how different characters uniquely harness and manipulate this energy. For instance, characters like Goku and Vegeta have shown that they can amplify their ki through training, techniques, and individual experiences, indicating that this power is not merely extracted from the surrounding atmosphere but also something they can grow and enhance within themselves. The process of mastering ki involves understanding one’s own life force and channeling it effectively, which suggests a level of complexity beyond simple environmental absorption.

Lastly, in philosophical terms, many martial arts philosophies emphasize the mastery of self as a path to greater power. This means that the focus on ki encompasses not just the energy present in the atmosphere, but also the cultivation of personal strength, mastery of one's own emotions, discipline, and connection to the universe. Thus, while the atmosphere might contain ki, it is not merely a passive element; it serves as a backdrop for an individual's journey towards self-improvement and enlightenment.
 
Ki is not from the environment but is a spiritual source
There's no distinction between these, lol.
Saitama.jpg
I'm not going to pretend like you're being cordial here. You're in a nearly 500 page long thread literally dedicated to insulting people in an inter-community circlejerk, and this is the 5th iteration of this thread. You have hundreds, if not thousands of messages dedicated to this. You can take being called an alcohol baby every once in a while, come on.
just fine as a disembodied soul without any need for sleeping or eating
Yeah, like I said, this isn't new or unaccounted for information. This is just how Taoism works. You can even see it in ancient classics like Water Margin or Journey to the West. As a soul, there's fewer boundaries between the self and the environment (because you literally lack a body). It's naturally easier to attune yourself to the flow of said environment, because you're now made of the energy that flows through it. It also helps that you're in, you know, Heaven.
Try again
Sorry, can you keep that to a paragraph or less?
 
Yeah, and what they made was "an atmosphere". Again, air = ki. Can't say it anymore than I have.

No, they made the stage and nothing else. Air is never mentioned anywhere.

Neither is it ever mentioned that Ki is the air or atmosphere. It can specifically be drawn from inanimate objects like rocks and such during King Kai's explanation of the Spirit Bomb.

Ki is not the atmosphere, the one time Toriyama talked about it he said it was made of "Genki, Yuki, and Shouki" i.e. Vigour, Courage, and "right-mindedness", something he said in a DBS story guide.
 
Yeah, like I said, this isn't new or unaccounted for information. This is just how Taoism works. You can even see it in ancient classics like Water Margin or Journey to the West. As a soul, there's fewer boundaries between the self and the environment (because you literally lack a body). It's naturally easier to attune yourself to the flow of said environment, because you're now made of the energy that flows through it. It also helps that you're in, you know, Heaven.

Sorry, can you keep that to a paragraph or less?
Can you stop arguing Taoism in a series that doesn’t even mention it so we can get an actual argument going?

Thanks a bunch
 
Sorry, can you keep that to a paragraph or less?
Yes
▎Counterargument

While I appreciate your perspective on ki, it's essential to examine this concept more critically. Equating ki merely with physical sustenance overlooks its narrative depth in series like "Dragon Ball." Characters like Goku exhibit extraordinary powers that transcend simple consumption of energy, demonstrating ki as a unique ability tied to spiritual awareness and personal mastery. Goku's journey emphasizes inner strength and discipline, indicating that ki evolves through personal growth rather than just being derived from the environment. Furthermore, comparisons with characters in other series reinforce that ki represents more than mere external resources; it embodies internal resolve and understanding of one’s potential. Therefore, while environmental factors do play a role, downplaying the intrinsic nature of ki and its connections to personal growth leads to an incomplete understanding of its significance in these narratives.
 
...What do you think they're breathing??

When I say "ki = air", I mean they are literally the same character. Not as like, "a fan theory". I mean the word "ki" means "air/atmosphere".

Not Ki?
Again, literally brought up that very thing of what Ki comes from:
1b2f9533d3d8ff19c625423bd15669df37416c4bv2_hq.jpg


None of this means Ki comes from Air unless you legit believe that people in DBZ Multiverse are literal fucking plants...
 
...What do you think they're breathing??

When I say "ki = air", I mean they are literally the same character. Not as like, "a fan theory". I mean the word "ki" means "air/atmosphere".
What you're spouting is just a nonsensical fan theory. Never is Ki mentioned to be air ever. Guides, data books, official statements, none of them mention this. You pulled it straight out of your ass.
 
Sure, and how did Super Goku get so strong? By aligning the ki of 6 Super Saiyans and drawing that into himself, hitting heights he wouldn't have hit otherwise.
I just wanted to add my thoughts here only for this part. I don’t agree with this. Goku could have achieved that level through training alone, which was how Vegeta attained SSB (he never did the ritual in canon)

The ritual was a shortcut, but it was never the only path to becoming a SSJG
 
...What do you think they're breathing??

What makes you think they're breathing normally in an extradimensional void that explicitly doesn't have space or time?

When I say "ki = air", I mean they are literally the same character. Not as like, "a fan theory". I mean the word "ki" means "air/atmosphere".

They also call it "energy", "God ki", "evil ki" and like a dozen other things over the course of the series.

What did you think "God ki" did, suddenly apopthesized the air in Goku's lungs? :skully
 
I'm not going to pretend like you're being cordial here. You're in a nearly 500 page long thread literally dedicated to insulting people in an inter-community circlejerk, and this is the 5th iteration of this thread. You have hundreds, if not thousands of messages dedicated to this. You can take being called an alcohol baby every once in a while, come on.
The fact that your making this argument, the same argument that multiple people in the past have tred to make as if it is a gotcha moment is hilarious to me.
We make fun of and insult ourselves and each other on the daily, and we make fun of and insult others as well. Better men than you have tried to lord this weird ass take over us as if it means anything to anyone.

The fact you took me making a meme post at you seriously is hilarious.
1570467780753.gif
 
Therefore, while environmental factors do play a role
Woah, it agrees.

More broadly, this doesn't actually disagree or counter anything I'm saying. I'm also not going to engage with something that literally isn't sentient (which probably includes you as well).
And? Doesn’t mean Goku gets every feat Son Wukong has ever done just because he’s inspired by them
Didn't say he did? I'm just pointing out the obvious here that ki as a concept doesn't come from nowhere, and its use in DB matches largely with its mythological concept.
Never is Ki mentioned to be air ever. Guides, data books, official statements, none of them mention this. You pulled it straight out of your ass.
pB5RXMI.png


When Goku talks about the "heavy air" in Daima and is noticeably weakened because of this... this is why. It's not just the literal weight of the air (which Bulma can withstand).
We make fun of and insult ourselves and each other on the daily
Sure, but also: get real. This isn't the "argue with other OLF users" thread. This is an unironic safe space for limpwristed edgelords.
 
I just wanted to add my thoughts here only for this part. I don’t agree with this. Goku could have achieved that level through training alone, which was how Vegeta attained SSB (he never did the ritual in canon)

The ritual was a shortcut, but it was never the only path to becoming a SSJG

We also know that certain characters can and do break that barrier and can get insanely strong on their own power...
Like Frieza...
And Gohan...
And Broly...
and Jiren...
among many... many... many others in Super(Hell, include GT from what we got on it now)
Goku and Vegeta hit a wall but that was more based on their own training methods vs. the new ones they learned to get themselves stronger with since(which again, is based on real life that your body may get too used to the old routine and you gotta switch it up or get a new one).
 
Woah, it agrees.

More broadly, this doesn't actually disagree or counter anything I'm saying. I'm also not going to engage with something that literally isn't sentient (which probably includes you as well).

Didn't say he did? I'm just pointing out the obvious here that ki as a concept doesn't come from nowhere, and its use in DB matches largely with its mythological concept.

pB5RXMI.png


When Goku talks about the "heavy air" in Daima and is noticeably weakened because of this... this is why. It's not just the literal weight of the air (which Bulma can withstand).

Did you just

Not notice the other things in that definition

Like are you actually unfamiliar with Kanji to the point you don't understand it can mean multiple different things in context

And in the context of glowing energy beams it probably means "spirit" and not "atmosphere"
 
Woah, it agrees.

More broadly, this doesn't actually disagree or counter anything I'm saying. I'm also not going to engage with something that literally isn't sentient (which probably includes you as well).

Didn't say he did? I'm just pointing out the obvious here that ki as a concept doesn't come from nowhere, and its use in DB matches largely with its mythological concept.
That doesn’t mean applying every minute detail of Taoism and thinking it applies to a series that doesn’t even mention it

Especially since your headcanon involves disregarding numerous pieces of evidence brought to you in order to force it work
 
In fact, a simpler logic can be used.

Dragon Ball explores the concept of body/Ki development through training and combat, and the argument that DB characters only absorb Ki from the environment kind of invalidates the whole point. And secondly if Ki is in everything then it must be inside bodies, therefore DB characters do have their own Ki reserves. And Ki must be inside their bodies because Ki is literally life force.
 
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