Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 5: Diamonds are fleeting. Stupid lasts forever

[Paxton]

what feat (and I mean an actual feat) in F/SN (specifically in F/SN, not heaven's feel or UBW or whatever) is even half as impressive as... say, Karna in Apocrypha turning a large area of ground into molten slag again (albeit that was him activating Vasavi Shakti iirc, and not his basic capabilities)

this isn't bait btw, this is a genuine question


because last I checked you're not getting planet level herc (or anywhere even near that ballpark) from anything you see in F/SN

 

[Flowering Knight]

HF and UBW are F/SN lol, been that way ever since the beginning

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

what feat (and I mean an actual feat) in F/SN (specifically in F/SN, not heaven's feel or UBW or whatever)

Dude, Heaven's Feel and Unlimited Blade Works ARE a part of Fate Stay Night...
People call those what they are because they are connected to the latter 2 routes compared to the still unnamed first Route(Which people just call the Fate Route for convenience) and that's what the other media go with.

is even half as impressive as... say, Karna in Apocrypha turning a large area of ground into molten slag again (albeit that was him activating Vasavi Shakti iirc, and not his basic capabilities)

Uh? Archer's Caladbolg does precisely that as well in the anime, there's a reason we tend to laugh at SB using that as the "maximum" of Vasavi Shakti when it literally destroys Ahkellius Kosmos which is the Reality of the Greek Texture manifested into a Shield.

this isn't bait btw, this is a genuine question


because last I checked you're not getting planet level herc (or anywhere even near that ballpark) from anything you see in F/SN

Being able to block Gilgamesh's Gate of Babylon which we have at around Planetary bare minimum due to it's collective feats. You also have him block a weakened Excalibur in a Bad End Route which would still be BS levels of powerful because that's how Noble Phantasms work(Illya states it would have killed him atleast 2 times if he let it hit him yet he was able to destroy it, no problem).

 

[Paxton]

Dude, Heaven's Feel and Unlimited Blade Works ARE a part of Fate Stay Night...
People call those what they are because they are connected to the latter 2 routes compared to the still unnamed first Route(Which people just call the Fate Route for convenience) and that's what the other media go with.



Uh? Archer's Caladbolg does precisely that as well in the anime, there's a reason we tend to laugh at SB using that as the "maximum" of Vasavi Shakti when it literally destroys Ahkellius Kosmos which is the Reality of the Greek Texture manifested into a Shield.



Being able to block Gilgamesh's Gate of Babylon which we have at around Planetary bare minimum due to it's collective feats. You also have him block a weakened Excalibur in a Bad End Route which would still be BS levels of powerful because that's how Noble Phantasms work(Illya states it would have killed him atleast 2 times if he let it hit him yet he was able to destroy it, no problem).

That's scaling + using stuff outside of FSN/Heaven's Feel/UBW, not a direct feat of Herc.

I'm not saying it doesn't apply retroactively, but there's nothing even close to that in F/SN alone.

 

[Adamant soul]

That's scaling + using stuff outside of FSN/Heaven's Feel/UBW, not a direct feat of Herc.

I'm not saying it doesn't apply retroactively, but there's nothing even close to that in F/SN alone.

There are planet level statements for BOTH Excalibur AND EA in the Fate route of F/SN alone.
So yes there absolutely is stuff of that level there.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

That's scaling + using stuff outside of FSN/Heaven's Feel/UBW, not a direct feat of Herc.

Literally used the Bad End for the Weakened Excalibur which would have killed him twice over that has Planetary statements in F/SN

Come on Pax, you are acting as bad as SB here in terms of trying to push a selective Narrative.

 

[Paxton]

Come on Pax, you are acting as bad as SB here in terms of trying to push a selective Narrative.

I'm not trying to push anything, I'm legitimately curious.

Just post the statements for EA/Excalibur from FSN lol.

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

If you completely isolate FSN from the existing context of the Nasuverse, I believe it caps out around country level or so from a calculation of Excalibur vaporizing Grail Mud and dispersing a cities worth of clouds.

Ea does have some hype by virtue of being called "Anti-World" and being basically a weaponized singularity, but that's about it.

That said, Herc himself does have feats surpassing Alcides thanks to FGO, even independent of scaling.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

G1/IDW Megatron upgrade

Right after megatron blasts the deceptigod, Galvatron states that the dvoid suffered a massive injury and he could feel it. That should be universe level. He has the potential to be multiversal. His bio states he can link up interdimensionally to a black hole (the Unicron singularity is a...

vsbattles.com

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/true-shikai-ichigo-vs-dangai-ichigo.1208090/page-5#post-107945891

That's not how it works. You cannot safely assume that events will happen the same way when the very thing you're arguing for was an invention of the anime that didn't exist in the manga.

We literally cannot use Events from the Manga because the Anime may make massive changes that we otherwise wouldn't see...
What ARE these sweeping changes the anime has done for Ichibei vs. Yhwach or the Schutzstaffel against the Captains?
The biggest sweeping change of Cour 3 is primarily put towards Ichigo's "fight" with Yhwach and then his actual fights against Uryu. It's pretty obvious that the main events will stay the same and the small factors make no real difference otherwise.

Cite?

Someone states that Transcendence doesn't matter anymore

I mean... he's right? Aizen in a stronger form than his Monster Form, can literally be sensed by everyone now. Bankai Shutara can be sensed by everyone, hell fucking SOUL KING YHWACH HIMSELF can be sensed by everyone.
By that logic, Dangai Ichigo and Monster >>>> Soul King Yhwach...
Holy shit, I'm going into the Bleachtard well there...

Could care less what these randos think when I have the source material right in front of me.

Must've missed the part where the Bambi fight scene ended up being 2 seconds long when they were all instantly defeated by the pressure wave caused by Ichigo waving his hand at them. Or the part where Askin ran into Ichigo and was summarily bisected when Ichigo hit him with his sword.

Oh wait.

"Ichigo not going all out and destroying them in 2 seconds means that Ichigo is weak as shit, checkmate!"
Bro, what the fuck is this rebuttal?! It's pretty clear that with anyone with eyes Ichigo could have murdered the Bambies and Askin and was caught slipping, hell, he was caught slipping by Yhwach because he didn't awaken White, gain the Horn of Salvation and just murdered him on the spot or go Bankai.
Seriously, these people are next level stupid.

 

[Adamant soul]

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/true-shikai-ichigo-vs-dangai-ichigo.1208090/page-5#post-107945891

We literally cannot use Events from the Manga because the Anime may make massive changes that we otherwise wouldn't see...
What ARE these sweeping changes the anime has done for Ichibei vs. Yhwach or the Schutzstaffel against the Captains?
The biggest sweeping change of Cour 3 is primarily put towards Ichigo's "fight" with Yhwach and then his actual fights against Uryu. It's pretty obvious that the main events will stay the same and the small factors make no real difference otherwise.

The biggest significant change in terms of power levels is just Uryu and Bankai Renji (and maybe Rukia since them both getting knocked out goes back to them being portrayed as peers). Other than that, everything else is basically the same.

I mean... he's right? Aizen in a stronger form than his Monster Form, can literally be sensed by everyone now. Bankai Shutara can be sensed by everyone, hell fucking SOUL KING YHWACH HIMSELF can be sensed by everyone.
By that logic, Dangai Ichigo and Monster >>>> Soul King Yhwach...
Holy shit, I'm going into the Bleachtard well there...

I mean some people unironically argue that so.

"Ichigo not going all out and destroying them in 2 seconds means that Ichigo is weak as shit, checkmate!"
Bro, what the fuck is this rebuttal?! It's pretty clear that with anyone with eyes Ichigo could have murdered the Bambies and Askin and was caught slipping, hell, he was caught slipping by Yhwach because he didn't awaken White, gain the Horn of Salvation and just murdered him on the spot or go Bankai.
Seriously, these people are next level stupid.

Oh lord that's like that idiot (I think it was Bob) who unironically argued Sasori STRUGGLED with Kankuro because the fight lasted a couple minutes, as if Sasori wasn't trolling the fuck out of him.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

I think basically every claim there was wrong wtf

Right after megatron blasts the deceptigod, Galvatron states that the dvoid suffered a massive injury and he could feel it. That should be universe level.

The Deceptigod is an amalgamation of thousands of Decepticons and there's no real indication its power extends beyond that, it doesn't even manage to damage the one single planet they're all on in any notable way. D-Void itself is a sentient universe, but harming this extension of itself is in no way universal. Even taking this at face value that injuring the D-Void, which really isn't even a physical being anyways, makes him universal it would be a tremendous outlier contradicted numerous times just in this one author's run.

He has the potential to be multiversal. His bio states he can link up interdimensionally to a black hole (the Unicron singularity is a black hole).

Note: he is talking about G1 Marvel comics Megatron here who....has never even heard of the Grand Black Hole and the Singularities. It's also completely insane to equate the multiverse destroying black hole created via extremely specific circumstances to just any random black hole, from a bio written decades before the GBH was even a thing and that was just referring to generic real life black holes.

Has a large star level feat. Cybertron was flung out of Alpha Centauri's orbit due to the war. It is stated that Optimus had a firepower potential that none but megatron could match. Cybertron orbits Alpha Centauri a and is Saturn sized with metal superior to earth metal. So I'm going to assume it's stronger than tungsten and has the distance of proxima Centauri. The mass should be
1.5922250866654779783239438447e+28 kg with a acceleration of 1421.5 m/s and a distance of 1944770000000 km. That's 44,016,912,135,207,703,156,370,374,890,235,368,085,000,000 joules.

He's scaling Cybertron being launched out of orbit in the Marvel comics run specifically to Megatron individually to get him to solar system level, which isn't even suggested by the comic at all.

Alternity megatron should be hyperversal by being a fusion of different megatrons.

This is true (or close to it anyways) since Alternity Megatron actually has these multiversal & higher dimensional feats however

Master megatron had an immeasurable power that Primus was no match for.

Not only do we have no information suggesting Master Megatron was ever part of Alternity Megatron's hivemind, he is just flat out not stronger than Primus, even the individual Primus in the show.
With the Omega Lock, a portion of Primus' power, he is still beaten by the planet leaders+Optimus...who are still powerless to close the Grand Black Hole on their own and need Primus to do it. It's just Galvatron boasting because he's geeked up off the God Powers, there is no reason to take it at face value and his actual feats with said power are already very respectable, there is no need to wank or take it out of context.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/true-shikai-ichigo-vs-dangai-ichigo.1208090/page-5#post-107952476

This is why I will always laugh at post timeskip > pre timeskip merchants. Now Liltotto is superior to Dangai Ichigo

Yeah, she IS. I never can understand the users of SB's attempts that they are trying to use "common sense" logic that the story explicitly does not use whatsoever to basically go with their absolutely anemic takes.
Urahara explicitly states the Aizen we see in the Final Arc is stronger than Monster Aizen(Which means Urahara would have been able to sense Monster Aizen... meaning Aizen is literally talking out of his ass like every other time he has done so) and yet can be affected by The Underbelly. Littoto is unironically stated to be one of the stronger Sternritter, I can fully believe she can kill Monster Aizen with difficulty.

Also, Urahara didn't even feel a massive difference between EoS Aizen and pre skip Aizen. He said his Hado might be stronger and that's it.

No... no... nope, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Urahara very clearly talks about that Aizen surpassed his monster self... yet SB somehow fucking believes Urahara was talking about his usage with Hadou 90 which was not what he was talking about. You know what makes this even dumber? Monster Aizen didn't use Kurotsuhigi, Butterflaizen did who Urahara never seen fight or anything of that nature.

Like I said, Bankai Yamamoto is above Aizen and Ichigo based on your arguments but keep making more excuses. You're virtually saying it yourself.

Yes, he unironically is. That's the entire goddamned reason why Yamamoto refused to fucking go Bankai for centuries! He all but states he feels his Bankai is a bad omen in and of itself.

Bankai Yamamoto > Liltotto > Dangai Ichigo based on visuals. DC and visuals are only relevant when it suits post timeskip > pre timeskip agenda.

My brother in Christ, if you are basing it on visuals, R2 Ulquirroa is the strongest being in Bleach next to fucking FKT Soi-Fon, shut the fuck up and understand how retarded that sounds with everything else we got.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

The biggest significant change in terms of power levels is just Uryu and Bankai Renji (and maybe Rukia since them both getting knocked out goes back to them being portrayed as peers). Other than that, everything else is basically the same.

Yep but apparently, that's more than enough to discount bringing in any manga feats... for some reason...

I mean some people unironically argue that so.

That's why I said I'm going into the Bleachtard well because yeah, I have seen people float that stupid shit even now just like they do that R2 Ulquirroa somehow went under Aizen's notice somehow because Ulquirroa said so.

Oh lord that's like that idiot (I think it was Bob) who unironically argued Sasori STRUGGLED with Kankuro because the fight lasted a couple minutes, as if Sasori wasn't trolling the fuck out of him.

Again, it's all headcanon rather than facts everytime...

 

[OtherGalaxy]

transformers fan scaling will never stop confusing me. this is already one of the most cracked series out there. you don't need to make shit up. Why is Master Galvatron being universal a bad thing, why this need to pump him up to "hyperversal" or whatever based on his own hyperbolic bragging. What happened to standards man

you can already hype up Unicron and Primus to ridiculous and actually canon supported levels anyways

 

[Masterblack06]

Ichigo after going through a training arc to fight yhwach
somehow weaker than a version of him from 2 arcs ago

SB is on some hardcore drugs

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

SB is on some hardcore drugs

Because they somehow believe that The Final Getsuga Tenshou and the stupid shit with "Not being able to sense reiatsu unless you are on their level" somehow still matters just that hard...
The problem is that the main concept of Transcendence is gone because everyone's reiatsu can be sensed and Ichigo's Royal Guard Training and him getting that Iruzanshou buff is explicitly mentioned multiple times and his reiatsu can be sensed is giving them extreme brain drain.

They legit cannot handle the concept that Kubo dropped it like a bad habit and that surprise, surprise, Dangai Ichigo was never that strong and neither was Monster Aizen outside of like maybe the Fullbringer Arc.

 

[Adamant soul]

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/true-shikai-ichigo-vs-dangai-ichigo.1208090/page-5#post-107952476

Yeah, she IS. I never can understand the users of SB's attempts that they are trying to use "common sense" logic that the story explicitly does not use whatsoever to basically go with their absolutely anemic takes.
Urahara explicitly states the Aizen we see in the Final Arc is stronger than Monster Aizen(Which means Urahara would have been able to sense Monster Aizen... meaning Aizen is literally talking out of his ass like every other time he has done so) and yet can be affected by The Underbelly. Littoto is unironically stated to be one of the stronger Sternritter, I can fully believe she can kill Monster Aizen with difficulty.

Okay let's not be ridiculous about this.

The Underbelly worked specifically because the seals Aizen was wearing created gaps in his reiatsu that Nanana was able to shoot through and knock him out. It's much more akin to the True Shikai Ichigo vs Askin fiasco than it is Aizen being that weak.

Liltotto is also only stated to be one of the stronger Fem-Nazis, yes she probably is still on the higher end of Mid-Nazis but that's about it. She's not beating versions of Aizen that can beat the Exiles in any state, let alone Dangai Ichigo.

No... no... nope, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Urahara very clearly talks about that Aizen surpassed his monster self... yet SB somehow fucking believes Urahara was talking about his usage with Hadou 90 which was not what he was talking about. You know what makes this even dumber? Monster Aizen didn't use Kurotsuhigi, Butterflaizen did who Urahara never seen fight or anything of that nature.

Well I would assume he did actually watch the fight or he wouldn't be able to make the comparison. He did show up immediately as the seal was kicking in after all.

Yes, he unironically is. That's the entire goddamned reason why Yamamoto refused to fucking go Bankai for centuries! He all but states he feels his Bankai is a bad omen in and of itself.

Now I do actually go with the idea of Bankai Yamamoto being stronger than SOME of the Hougyoku forms at least. Monster Aizen and Dangai Ichigo might be pushing it just a little bit.

Just saying you might be going a bit too far in the other direction here.

My brother in Christ, if you are basing it on visuals, R2 Ulquirroa is the strongest being in Bleach next to fucking FKT Soi-Fon, shut the fuck up and understand how retarded that sounds with everything else we got.

But yeah in terms of pure visuals, nothing overtakes Gremmy, which would still be a stupid argument but it's not one that helps pre-skip supporters.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Okay let's not be ridiculous about this.

The Underbelly worked specifically because the seals Aizen was wearing created gaps in his reiatsu that Nanana was able to shoot through and knock him out. It's much more akin to the True Shikai Ichigo vs Askin fiasco than it is Aizen being that weak.

Liltotto is also only stated to be one of the stronger Fem-Nazis, yes she probably is still on the higher end of Mid-Nazis but that's about it. She's not beating versions of Aizen that can beat the Exiles in any state, let alone Dangai Ichigo.

I'm more explaining those very factors get rid of the Transcendence notion as well as the fact that we can't just say that Dangai Ichigo and Monster Aizen would matter in this arc alone because "Their Reiatsu cannot be sensed" than anything else of that nature.
Maybe I did push it but I don't fully agree since none of the Exiles was legit going in outside of maybe Yourichi(And Yourichi tends to get some weird shit down like she can hurt herself on Yammy's Hierro which never made any sense unless we go with her still being massively rusty till the Post Timeskip)

Well I would assume he did actually watch the fight or he wouldn't be able to make the comparison. He did show up immediately as the seal was kicking in after all.

I'm more talking about the dude saying Urahara comparing Kurohitsugi the entire time which meant Urahara would have been surveying it for far too long vs. more seeing the final bits which would make sense.

Now I do actually go with the idea of Bankai Yamamoto being stronger than SOME of the Hougyoku forms at least. Monster Aizen and Dangai Ichigo might be pushing it just a little bit.

Just saying you might be going a bit too far in the other direction here.

Honestly, I doubt Bankai Yamamoto would have any issue with Monster Aizen or Dangai Ichigo but that's more of Aizen and Ichigo really not coming off all that impressive in the grand scheme to be frank(Gin's Bankai can still injure the form before Butterflaizen is the easiest point even if "Aizen allowed it" which is bumpkiss).

But yeah in terms of pure visuals, nothing overtakes Gremmy, which would still be a stupid argument but it's not one that helps pre-skip supporters.

I'll calm down, I'm just tired of people using those stupid feats for "maximum power" when it's the same shit you usually see in most Shonen or most media.

 

[GoldenHeart]

Headcanon is one thing when it comes to Bleach but this shit is absolute fucking denial to the highest degree at this point.
The Manga literally has Yhwach see TS Ichigo > Dangai Ichigo(Who literally has seen all of the Soul Reaper fights), they even bring up that Ichigo's reiatsu of him "truly getting serious" literally has him be seen as "not truly vulnerable" due to how much reiatsu he's pouring out:

And this is not counting Horn of Salvation(Which hurt Soul King Yhwach) and his Bankai(Which Yhwach made it absolute priority to break) but somehow... somehow
Dangai Ichigo is still stronger because of... demeanor and soloing Aizen? You mean the Aizen that grew stronger than that and yet is still seen getting torn apart by all of Yhwach's attacks unlike Ichigo?

There's headcanon and then there's delusion.

Doesn't the anime introduction of his new blades also imply TS > Dangai?

Like, when Ichigo accepts his true Zanpakuto, he starts off listing shit he did he was wrong about in regards to how he saw his spirits, saying he won't ask old man Zangetsu to give him power anymore, nor to tell White to fuck off. Then he says he won't ask them to fight alongside him anymore either, and it pans to a flashback of Dangai/Mugetsu. Then he accepts the new Zangetsus, stating them to be him.