Prediction Blog: Shadow vs Mewtwo
"For her" Shadow the Hedgehog , the Ultimate Lifeform Mewtwo , the world's strongest Pokémon It is one thing to fight for power, and one th...
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Death Battle Discussion
- Thread starter Claudio Swiss
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There is no basis at all
if we're talking the real The Fallen then at least equal to Vector Prime's true form and on par with Solus Prime's true form
which is in the order of being able to stop calamities that tl;dr would destroy an infinite number of multiverses in shorthand, and Solus shattered the Star Saber which can destroy the TF main multiverse, which contains an endless amount of generating multiverses, and immeasurable speed as the 13 all exist outside of time and space, alongside immortality, resistance to existence erasure, soulfuck on a massive way scaling from Liege Maximo and Nexus Prime, the 13 are kind of a big wall within TF for most characters put up against the setting and outside of the Royal Knights from Digimon I don't know of a single fair matchup for them.
But this is all for their real forms, they have avatar bodies that vary wildly in strength, but The Fallen appears so infrequently I'm not aware of any avatars that are a good fight for an Ultraman. Dreamwave and Bayformers Fallen were definitely not universe level. I didn't see anything in Forged to Fight suggesting he was either unless I missed something major
Thirteen prime
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If I’m not confused, in one of the bayformers transformers comics, there was a story about a fallen one who absorbed the mental mass and power of a hive that numbers trillions, and also surpassed the All Spark that gave birth to the Universe, but I don’t know how it’s normal to interpret this for battle.
bayformers Fallen is just one of the countless real The Fallen's avatars, so you can just scale it up to the whole similar to Liege Maximo absorbing hundreds of millions of souls and such or the Enigma of Combination manipulating millions and millions of souls and minds in IDW.
In a straightforward fight for the comic bayformers Fallen though it would just give him obscenely high mental hax resistance/feats, iirc he was able to instantly kill several of the other Primes after amping himself on the neural network. I'm not sure on the All Spark stuff as far as the movie comics though, I haven't read that yet.
Thirteen prime
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Essentially yes, but I meant that this avatar was approaching the level of the universe through scaling to All Spark, but this is probably a bad idea.
probably just an outlier, the rest of the movie comics don't suggest Optimus, Megatron, etc. are anywhere near universal.
Alright since I'm back, I'll actually answer this in earnest(I was on my Tablet and I didn't want to give an all in answer with that shit, no way):
There is nothing at all that has Kenpachi in Bankai > Yamamoto In Bankai, not a single damn thing. The issue with people who use the Novel is that it's actually a meme that most people never actually READ CFYOW and only read the cliffnotes and assumed the fuck out of shit in it which lead to alot of people just making shit up and it's not helped by Narita then hilariously downscaling the verse something fierce(Which is why you keep seeing people believe R2 Ulquirroa still matters even in the Final Arc because of Narita).
Otherwise, they take the fact that Byakuya and Hitsugaya was forced out of the story(Hitsugaya was on a mission and Shunsui didn't want Byakuya, a Noble, starting shit with another Noble), the fact that Kenpachi was schooling Hikone even in his strongest state and casually defeating a Primordial Hollow with his Shikai(Who Narita tried to compare to BARRAGAN as a COMPLIMENT... see where the issues with scaling come in?) is why you have a bunch of people believe that Kenpachi > Yamamoto is a thing...
The problem with this is that it runs counter MISERABLY to the things we see in the series:
- The scale of Bleach exploded since the Pre-Timeskip with H2 Ichigo being even weaker than Yhwach, Haschwalth and the Upper Tier Sternritter(And that's IF we go with H2 Ichigo = Fullbringer Bankai Ichigo... which is a stretch considering Kubo confirmed the final Hollow Mask Ichigo had if he wasn't being a mental wreck would have made him as strong as H2 Ichigo) and that still wouldn't matter as
- Kubo Tite confirmed that the placing of the Espada are explicitly where they are placed at meaning R2 Ulquirroa is explicitly weaker than Harribel, Barragan and Stark meaning Ichigo in H2 stomping R2 Ulquirroa isn't as huge as people make it out to be.
- And most importantly for this topic: Bankai Kenpachi failed to defeat Gerard Valkyrie! Even in Shikai and patchless he struggled to even maintain parity with him and using too much power wrecked him due to not being able to handle his Bankai's strengths. Both Byakuya and Hitsugaya, meanwhile, still maintained parity with an even stronger Gerard(With Hitsugaya dogging the one Kenpachi failed to defeat and was still fighting the Final Form Gerard with Kenpachi nowhere to be seen).
If anything, the only Captain that is anywhere near or above Yamamoto is Hitsugaya as an Adult.
Clive Rosfield VS Velvet Crowe (Final Fantasy XVI VS Tales of Berseria)- John says “I wish Velvet were stronger”. He likes the connections, but “it’s not a fight” because Clive is so much more powerful. Sam asks what the best Tales feat is, and John responds that he thinks there’s a feat where a spirit shakes a continent. When asked by Liam where FF16 scales, John says that Ifrit scaling probably puts Clive at high universal. Sam ultimately says it has cool connections and he gets what the OP was going for.
Mr. Freeze VS Amelia Hughes (DC VS Infinity Train)- Erin adores Infinity Train, and likes the MU. She doesn’t think Amelia could survive against Freeze unless she could use the actual train, since DC characters are so insane, though Liam doesn’t think Freeze gets herald scaling. Sam calls it fun, though Erin says the main takeaway should be to watch Infinity Train.
Regieleki VS Thunderblight Ganon (Pokemon VS The Legend of Zelda)- Sam has never heard of Regieleki, and they find it a very weird MU overall.
Genji VS Zer0 (Overwatch VS Borderlands)- After Liam calls it a fight between cyborg ninjas, it’s pointed out that we don’t really know what Zer0 is. There’s some more discussion about Zer0 as a character, but not really any about the MU, besides noting that it’s “sword vs. sniper”.
Uzi & N VS Toko & Komaru (Murder Drones VS Danganronpa)- After Sam asks if Monokuma would be involved, John responds that he wouldn’t, and he and Liam explain the premise of Toko as a character. Sam asks who wins, and John assumes Toko and Komaru do, since Komaru has the ability to disrupt Monokuma variants, and this would probably work on Uzi and N (though he admits he doesn’t know where Murder Drones scales).
Billy, Mandy, & Grim VS Timmy, Cosmo, & Wanda (The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy VS The Fairly Oddparents)- Everyone is immediately on board with it. Liam notes that they’re “inverted threes” (two kids and one magic user vs. one kid and two magic users). He says that he’d rather have Billy and Mandy on his side in a fight than Timmy (which Erin agrees with). John also bets the Grim Adventures team, since Grim has way fewer restrictions on his powers than Cosmo and Wanda do. Erin says Cosmo and Wanda aren’t allowed to kill anyone with their magic, and Liam sums it up as “one side can’t kill people, the other side has the Grim Reaper”.
The Lich King VS Archaon (Warcraft VS Warhammer)- Liam and Sam both really want to analyze Warhammer (with Liam wanting to do 40k in particular). Sam gets the connections and says it seems cool.
Lucy VS Yuna (Fairy Tail VS Final Fantasy)- Sam says he doesn’t see Yuna requested a lot, though Liam has seen this specific MU before. Sam thinks Final Fantasy X is the best numbered FF game, but also thinks Yuna is weird because, for plot reasons, she can’t be given both the dresspheres and the aeons. Despite her being stronger in X-2, Sam would prefer for Yuna to get the aeons so it could be a summoner fight (which the others agree with), and Liam thinks that Yuna wins either way.
Stick Figure Battle Royale (Red VS Henry Stickmin VS The Second Coming VS Fancy Pants Man)- They don’t really talk about the MU. The only thing of note is that Liam loved Dick Figures as a kid, but doesn’t think it holds up as an adult.
V1 VS Neon White (Ultrakill VS Neon White)- Sam hasn’t played Neon White (though he’s interested in it) and knows nothing about Ultrakill, though Liam loves both. After summarizing the MU as “Heaven vs. Hell: The Gun Fight", Sam says it's sick.
Gon Freecss VS Kabane Kusaka (Hunter x Hunter VS Kemono Jihen)- Mostly glossed over because it was recently talked about. They still aren’t familiar with Kemono Jihen, but they do express more interest in it after Erin looks it up and explains the premise.
Wes VS Yusei Fudo (Pokemon VS Yu-Gi-Oh)- As Sam puts it, “They have cool vehicles and they summon monsters. This is pretty sick”.
Vin Venture VS Taylor Hebert (Mistborn VS Parahumans)- They don’t know the characters at all. Liam has heard Worm is really good, and Sam says it’s probably cool and he’ll ask Chad about it.
Frankenstein’s Monster VS Freddy Fazbear (Frankenstein VS Five Nights at Freddy’s)- Sam asks if they’d do a composite of the Monster, and Liam says that would be “too much”. John says they’d also have to do a composite Freddy, who is “also ridiculous”. Liam thinks Frankenstein is sick, and says the MU is cool and creative. Sam is interested in bringing in a character like Frankenstein’s Monster, but isn’t sure if he has much in terms of meaningful feats in the original book.
Cu Chulainn VS Achilles (Celtic Mythology VS Greek Mythology)- Liam calls it sick. He wants Cu Chulainn to win, because he’s Irish and Achilles is “such an asshole”. Sam says they’re always down for more mythology episodes.
Furret VS Temmie (Pokemon VS Undertale)- It makes them laugh, and John jokingly calls it “the perfect fight” and says they’ll do it in Season 11. There’s some discussion of ferrets as pets afterwards.
First matchup for the next Ballot Banter is Wolf VS William Adams (Sekiro VS Nioh).
Mr. Freeze VS Amelia Hughes (DC VS Infinity Train)- Erin adores Infinity Train, and likes the MU. She doesn’t think Amelia could survive against Freeze unless she could use the actual train, since DC characters are so insane, though Liam doesn’t think Freeze gets herald scaling. Sam calls it fun, though Erin says the main takeaway should be to watch Infinity Train.
Regieleki VS Thunderblight Ganon (Pokemon VS The Legend of Zelda)- Sam has never heard of Regieleki, and they find it a very weird MU overall.
Genji VS Zer0 (Overwatch VS Borderlands)- After Liam calls it a fight between cyborg ninjas, it’s pointed out that we don’t really know what Zer0 is. There’s some more discussion about Zer0 as a character, but not really any about the MU, besides noting that it’s “sword vs. sniper”.
Uzi & N VS Toko & Komaru (Murder Drones VS Danganronpa)- After Sam asks if Monokuma would be involved, John responds that he wouldn’t, and he and Liam explain the premise of Toko as a character. Sam asks who wins, and John assumes Toko and Komaru do, since Komaru has the ability to disrupt Monokuma variants, and this would probably work on Uzi and N (though he admits he doesn’t know where Murder Drones scales).
Billy, Mandy, & Grim VS Timmy, Cosmo, & Wanda (The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy VS The Fairly Oddparents)- Everyone is immediately on board with it. Liam notes that they’re “inverted threes” (two kids and one magic user vs. one kid and two magic users). He says that he’d rather have Billy and Mandy on his side in a fight than Timmy (which Erin agrees with). John also bets the Grim Adventures team, since Grim has way fewer restrictions on his powers than Cosmo and Wanda do. Erin says Cosmo and Wanda aren’t allowed to kill anyone with their magic, and Liam sums it up as “one side can’t kill people, the other side has the Grim Reaper”.
The Lich King VS Archaon (Warcraft VS Warhammer)- Liam and Sam both really want to analyze Warhammer (with Liam wanting to do 40k in particular). Sam gets the connections and says it seems cool.
Lucy VS Yuna (Fairy Tail VS Final Fantasy)- Sam says he doesn’t see Yuna requested a lot, though Liam has seen this specific MU before. Sam thinks Final Fantasy X is the best numbered FF game, but also thinks Yuna is weird because, for plot reasons, she can’t be given both the dresspheres and the aeons. Despite her being stronger in X-2, Sam would prefer for Yuna to get the aeons so it could be a summoner fight (which the others agree with), and Liam thinks that Yuna wins either way.
Stick Figure Battle Royale (Red VS Henry Stickmin VS The Second Coming VS Fancy Pants Man)- They don’t really talk about the MU. The only thing of note is that Liam loved Dick Figures as a kid, but doesn’t think it holds up as an adult.
V1 VS Neon White (Ultrakill VS Neon White)- Sam hasn’t played Neon White (though he’s interested in it) and knows nothing about Ultrakill, though Liam loves both. After summarizing the MU as “Heaven vs. Hell: The Gun Fight", Sam says it's sick.
Gon Freecss VS Kabane Kusaka (Hunter x Hunter VS Kemono Jihen)- Mostly glossed over because it was recently talked about. They still aren’t familiar with Kemono Jihen, but they do express more interest in it after Erin looks it up and explains the premise.
Wes VS Yusei Fudo (Pokemon VS Yu-Gi-Oh)- As Sam puts it, “They have cool vehicles and they summon monsters. This is pretty sick”.
Vin Venture VS Taylor Hebert (Mistborn VS Parahumans)- They don’t know the characters at all. Liam has heard Worm is really good, and Sam says it’s probably cool and he’ll ask Chad about it.
Frankenstein’s Monster VS Freddy Fazbear (Frankenstein VS Five Nights at Freddy’s)- Sam asks if they’d do a composite of the Monster, and Liam says that would be “too much”. John says they’d also have to do a composite Freddy, who is “also ridiculous”. Liam thinks Frankenstein is sick, and says the MU is cool and creative. Sam is interested in bringing in a character like Frankenstein’s Monster, but isn’t sure if he has much in terms of meaningful feats in the original book.
Cu Chulainn VS Achilles (Celtic Mythology VS Greek Mythology)- Liam calls it sick. He wants Cu Chulainn to win, because he’s Irish and Achilles is “such an asshole”. Sam says they’re always down for more mythology episodes.
Furret VS Temmie (Pokemon VS Undertale)- It makes them laugh, and John jokingly calls it “the perfect fight” and says they’ll do it in Season 11. There’s some discussion of ferrets as pets afterwards.
First matchup for the next Ballot Banter is Wolf VS William Adams (Sekiro VS Nioh).
OrlandoSky
Distinguished
The specefic arguments I’ve seen brought up for Kenpachi in the subreddit is that he’s one of the 5 war powers (along with Ichigo and Aizen who are top tiers and Ichibei/Urahara who are prep strategists) specifically for his combat strength where as Yhwach didn’t have Yama-jii on the list
So people literally missed WHY Yhwach didn't put him on that list? It wasn't because of power reasons(Yamamoto literally would fit that list otherwise) but the fact that in Yhwach's eyes, Yamamoto wasn't the monster he was a thousand years ago... that's it.
It was literally just a personality reason and that was that.
Like goddamn, it's not even Klub Outside shit, it's literally fucking explained in the following episode in the anime and in the manga.
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