They aren't canon. I've told him before the Stage Shows are explicitly non-canon and not to conflate them with the main canon/continuity stuff, just like with the older crossovers and HVBs from Agito, Ryuki, Den-O, and Kiva. The only side materials I know that are explicitly and officially canon outside of the movies and shows are the Decade novels which where written by the head writer of DCD and operates under Decade/Tsukasa visiting the real 9 Heisei worlds vs the AR ones in the show. I would take his info with a grain of salt because I had to explain to the OP numerous times that the AR Worlds in Decade are not the same as the real Heisei worlds. We have a multiverse existing since Decade, but megaverse is beyond suspect.
>Mirror World >"multiverse" No. Ryuki's Mirror World was created by Kanzaki Shirou, its an alternate dimension, not a universe or multiverse.
. I would take his info with a grain of salt because I had to explain to the OP numerous times that the AR Worlds in Decade are not the same as the real Heisei worlds.
I've told him before the Stage Shows are explicitly non-canon and not to conflate them with the main canon/continuity stuff, just like with the older crossovers and HVBs from Agito, Ryuki, Den-O, and Kiva.
I never said that the Mirror World was a universe or a multiverse.
I said it was an infinite-sized dimension allowing for travel between universes.
Taking out a flashlight, he lead me through the halls until we reached a wide room. The walls, floor, and ceiling were all mirrors, reflecting our images infinitely. In the corner, there was a stack of countless books. That’s when I realized this was big brother’s study room. “Do you know, Yui?” He asked, as well as the countless reflections of him. “Inside one mirror is another, and inside that one yet another. It continues on infinitely. But sometimes, as you keep passing through them, you can go to a different world.”
Ryuki and Knight found themselves stuck in a wave of monsters.They were unable to cross the wave, and yet, they could still hear Yui and her brother...as if by telepathy. “Yui, don’t cause trouble. This is the only way you can be happy. I’m doing this for your sake and my own. If you die now, there’s no way for you to come back. Weren’t you searching for a new life?” “Of course I want to be happy! But I don’t want to snatch another persons away in order to do that!” “You’re not snatching away anything. You’re merely borrowing a life. The winner’s life will be projected through you. What are you so worried about? The person who wins will get their wish. I think that’s enough compensation.” What did that mean, Shinji wondered to himself as he fought off the monsters. the winner’s life would be projected through her? “I told you before, didn’t I Yui? Endless worlds are accessible through mirrors. Each one of them is just a little bit different. I’ll send the winner to the world of their choice. That will become their reality.” “It’ll be a world of lies! Why don’t you understand that? All you’re doing is a big lie!” “You’re wrong, Yui. This is all reality. All except for you, of course. That’s why you need a new life.your fate has already been decided. I decided it for you.” “You’re wrong, big brother!” Her voice began to fade. “My fate is for me to decide!”
There is only the Mirror World and the real world in Ryuki. And this doesn't change what I said: its a dimension/pocket reality created by Kanzaki Shirou, same with the Mirror Monsters, all the Advent Cards, Rider abilities, etc...
I'm not talking about the real rider worlds in Zi-O though. I'm talking about the concept of Parallel worlds that's brought up in Build and the Zi-O Rider Time.
The Mirror World (ミラーワールド, Mirā Wārudo) is a spacetime existing on a different dimensional plane in which only the Kamen Riders can safely exist and is home to the Mirror Monsters. Evidently, this spacetime exists across the multiverse, with its properties differing in each world. The real form...
I'm not talking about the real rider worlds in Zi-O though. I'm talking about the concept of Parallel worlds that's brought up in Build and the Zi-O Rider Time.
So what? Would you argue Decade is multiversal because all 9 AR Worlds + the World of Decade, the Nega World, the World of Monsters, and the War of Riders were fusing because of Decade's existence too? Even though he has no direct control over any of that?
You said that Kamen Rider cosmology being a megaverse is suspect. That's is my issue, there are countless/infinite alternate realities simply for each Rider World.
So what? Would you argue Decade is multiversal because all 9 AR Worlds + the World of Decade, the Nega World, the World of Monsters, and the War of Riders were fusing because of Decade's existence too? Even though he has no direct control over any of that?
Yes, the same thing was going on with Zi-O. It's a feat for their powers. Also I'm pretty sure that Decade can destroy worlds consciously, he just doesn't because he's a good guy.
You said that Kamen Rider cosmology being a megaverse is suspect. That's is my issue, there are countless/infinite alternate realities simply for each Rider World.
Doesn't make it a megaverse. And no there are not, we don't treat alternate timelines or dimensions as full fledged universes as a standard here. KR being potentially on the top of the multiversal scale is one thing, megaversal is quite another.
Agito established the two Overlords of Darkness and Light fighting in some dimension and having the ability to move and alter time-space. Ryuki showed that Kanzaki Shirou created the Mirror World and its connection to the real world/universe with his power, no other worlds are shown in the show. Kabuto had the Hyper Zecter existing outside of the flow of time-space and moving through different dimensions and timelines, Hyper Kabuto also freely traveling through time at well to interact with his past/present self. Den-O had Singularity Points and time travel that the Imagin used to hop through time and alter the past, present, and future. Kiva had time-travel with its main point being between the 1980s with Wataru's dad and the present late 2000s with Wataru. Decade is the first series to show a interconnected multiverse with parallel worlds and universes. Wizard had Adamum show post-DCD that the newer series' worlds were interconnected just like the previous Heisei worlds and AR Heisei worlds in Decade. Gaim had the Inves being from another part of the universe and a different dimension from the Earth, also the Bujin World. etc...
Yes, the same thing was going on with Zi-O. It's a feat for their powers. Also I'm pretty sure that Decade can destroy worlds consciously, he just doesn't because he's a good guy.
No, he can't. He has never shown that power in any of the shows or movies or books at all. Decade's existence was indirectly causing the other AR Heisei worlds to disappear, and the rest of the multiverse at the time to fuse together. Apollo Geist even points this out, which is why the theme of "Tsukasa having no story" is so heavily emphasized until the end of All Riders vs Dai-Shocker.
No, he can't. He has never shown that power in any of the shows or movies or books at all. Decade's existence was indirectly causing the other AR Heisei worlds to disappear, and the rest of the multiverse at the time to fuse together. Apollo Geist even points this out, which is why the theme of "Tsukasa having no story" is so heavily emphasized until the end of All Riders vs Dai-Shocker.
Doesn't make it a megaverse. And no there are not, we don't treat alternate timelines or dimensions as full fledged universes as a standard here. KR being potentially on the top of the multiversal scale is one thing, megaversal is quite another.
Agito established the two Overlords of Darkness and Light fighting in some dimension and having the ability to move and alter time-space. Ryuki showed that Kanzaki Shirou created the Mirror World and its connection to the real world/universe with his power, no other worlds are shown in the show. Kabuto had the Hyper Zecter existing outside of the flow of time-space and moving through different dimensions and timelines, Hyper Kabuto also freely traveling through time at well to interact with his past/present self. Den-O had Singularity Points and time travel that the Imagin used to hop through time and alter the past, present, and future. Kiva had time-travel with its main point being between the 1980s with Wataru's dad and the present late 2000s with Wataru. Decade is the first series to show a interconnected multiverse with parallel worlds and universes. Wizard had Adamum show post-DCD that the newer series' worlds were interconnected just like the previous Heisei worlds and AR Heisei worlds in Decade. Gaim had the Inves being from another part of the universe and a different dimension from the Earth, also the Bujin World. etc...
In the Kamen Rider Gaim novel, I think this is Kohgane, he sees infinite and countless worlds. Including other Rider worlds.
First of all,the colors. Every color swallowed him. And every sense. Sound. It smells. Skin sentation. Viseral sentation-No everything. Everything come in. Defeat him like a storm, in a chaotic mix of everything and everything. It was like a eternal time-but for a moment it was also a moment. Infinite gorgeous colors soon obtains it shape. At the first beginning, he know that one which is nothing but the explosion of colors was a countless scenes. With that understanding, the sense of flood obtains its meaning.He realizes everything. Now,what he saw;he sensed was the “world/universe”.All time,all space was spreading in front of him. However, there can be no joy there. While despreately holding the ego that is about to collapse, he is swept away by the worlds. Countless worlds spreading infinitely.And in all of them, its history is shining. Countless stories of countless worlds.And countless malice and hostility. There was an evil who slaughtered like it was a game.There was something like an angel of God. There were monsters and people who used them to kill each other. It has evolved different from Helheim. Immortal beings. Chimimoryõ who eats people. An Extraterrestrial life form that mimic human. A demon who wants to alter history.Some like a vampire. Furthermore, it has the memory of the earth. Incarnation of desire. Enjoying the energy of the universe. Devil that arise from despair. Hundred of artificial life forms- Countless stories of countless worlds unfold in front of him are conneted by a single proposition, with malice and hostility as a chain. “Life is the cycle of life and death. The world is the flow of destruction and rebirth. It’s a never-ending hell.We are trapped in a ring prison” He can hear the voice The voice leads him to the truth,like a saint who rescues lost sentinent beings. “Love is lost. Trapped in hatred. I can’t reach it. There is only suffering, but for me, humans will overcome it. Unleashed from the physical cage,the spirit sublimates and become one with the universe. One in all. All in one. There is no longer any anguish. This is the ultimate evolution.” No,it’s different. Something in him denies the word of truth spoken by the saint He doesn’t know what it is now. His ego is terribly thin and it seems to melt into the world and disappear at any moment.However,even so, that “something”-something that could not be hand over, something important that desprerately resisting. The saint ridicules his struggle. “No different. That’s what you know best” The colors explode again. Raging sensation. And silence.
So yeah, alternate timelines in Kamen RIder can be universes.
Stage shows are still part of Kamen Rider. Even if they aren't canon to the mainline series. Just think of them as an AR world.
Also forgot about this but due to Ohma Zi-O's existence, no other rider can appear after 2019 after him. Similar to Decade's Destroyer of Worlds power.
Sougo didn't care and created a future rider anyway.
So now that I've proven that Kamen Rider high tiers are megaversal, how far do they go in each verse?
if megaversal gets accepted they will make it to the 13 in transformers but ultimately not clear because Prima is hilariously stronger than his brothers and sisters and he's still nothing to Unicron or Primus
Has nothing to do with the Mirror World in Ryuki, once more. And once more, doesn't make it beyond a multiverse anyways. You are conflating different things and trying to use them to support a claim about Ryuki's Mirror World which factually is not true.
First of all,the colors. Every color swallowed him. And every sense. Sound. It smells. Skin sentation. Viseral sentation-No everything. Everything come in. Defeat him like a storm, in a chaotic mix of everything and everything. It was like a eternal time-but for a moment it was also a moment. Infinite gorgeous colors soon obtains it shape. At the first beginning, he know that one which is nothing but the explosion of colors was a countless scenes. With that understanding, the sense of flood obtains its meaning.He realizes everything. Now,what he saw;he sensed was the “world/universe”.All time,all space was spreading in front of him. However, there can be no joy there. While despreately holding the ego that is about to collapse, he is swept away by the worlds. Countless worlds spreading infinitely.And in all of them, its history is shining. Countless stories of countless worlds.And countless malice and hostility. There was an evil who slaughtered like it was a game.There was something like an angel of God. There were monsters and people who used them to kill each other. It has evolved different from Helheim. Immortal beings. Chimimoryõ who eats people. An Extraterrestrial life form that mimic human. A demon who wants to alter history.Some like a vampire. Furthermore, it has the memory of the earth. Incarnation of desire. Enjoying the energy of the universe. Devil that arise from despair. Hundred of artificial life forms- Countless stories of countless worlds unfold in front of him are conneted by a single proposition, with malice and hostility as a chain. “Life is the cycle of life and death. The world is the flow of destruction and rebirth. It’s a never-ending hell.We are trapped in a ring prison” He can hear the voice The voice leads him to the truth,like a saint who rescues lost sentinent beings. “Love is lost. Trapped in hatred. I can’t reach it. There is only suffering, but for me, humans will overcome it. Unleashed from the physical cage,the spirit sublimates and become one with the universe. One in all. All in one. There is no longer any anguish. This is the ultimate evolution.” No,it’s different. Something in him denies the word of truth spoken by the saint He doesn’t know what it is now. His ego is terribly thin and it seems to melt into the world and disappear at any moment.However,even so, that “something”-something that could not be hand over, something important that desprerately resisting. The saint ridicules his struggle. “No different. That’s what you know best” The colors explode again. Raging sensation. And silence.
No, they aren't. Stop this nonsense; none of these things apply to Ryuki's Mirror World, and we went by what we saw in the films and movies over anything else. I have no idea what the canon status of the Gaim or other novels are, Decade's were specifically approved of by Toei because of rank the TV series and its movie conclusions failed.
As of DCD:
- the original 9 Heisei worlds - the 9 AR Heisei worlds - Decade's world - The world of monsters - The world of Nega Riders - Rider War/Battle World
Anything else is just supporting the notion of a multiverse, not a megaverse. Doesn't matter what additional add-ons we got to Rider cosmology with Wizard, Gaim, Drive, Ghost, Ex-Aid, Build, Zi-Oh, etc...nothing supports the notion of a megaversal KR cosmology.
if megaversal gets accepted they will make it to the 13 in transformers but ultimately not clear because Prima is hilariously stronger than his brothers and sisters and he's still nothing to Unicron or Primus
I'm all fine for upgrades to its cosmology and everything but there's a difference in trying to patently retcon or alter things to fit in a narrative; countless parallel worlds and universes existing in Build doesn't somehow make Ryuki's Mirror World some infinite multiversal mirror dimension like Goldenboy is claiming.
I'm all fine for upgrades to its cosmology and everything but there's a difference in trying to patently retcon or alter things to fit in a narrative; countless parallel worlds and universes existing in Build doesn't somehow make Ryuki's Mirror World some infinite multiversal mirror dimension like Goldenboy is claiming.
Wait for what? Where the hell did I say that the Mirror World was that? In fact, where did you get the idea that I was talking about the Mirror World at all? I wasn't I was talking about the cosmology of the entire verse not just the mirror world.
Doesn't make it a megaverse. And no there are not, we don't treat alternate timelines or dimensions as full fledged universes as a standard here. KR being potentially on the top of the multiversal scale is one thing, megaversal is quite another.
Has nothing to do with the Mirror World in Ryuki, once more. And once more, doesn't make it beyond a multiverse anyways. You are conflating different things and trying to use them to support a claim about Ryuki's Mirror World which factually is not true.
Novel: Kamen Rider Gaim (小説 仮面ライダー鎧武, Shōsetsu Kamen Raidā Gaimu, Novel: Kamen Rider Gaim), is a novel based off Kamen Rider Gaim. It is written by Gun Snark and Jin Haganeya, supervised by Gen Urobuchi. This story reveals the true intentions of Kugai Kudo and the Saver System, as well as...
Gaim Gaiden: Kamen Rider Knuckle (鎧武［ガイム］外伝 仮面ライダーナックル, Gaimu Gaiden Kamen Raidā Nakkuru) is a Japanese superhero Tokusatsu V-Cinema film serving as the fourth installment of Kamen Rider Gaim Gaiden, set within the continuity of Kamen Rider Gaim. In the film, Zack works to stop a formerly exiled...
kamenrider.fandom.com
"Novel Kamen Rider Gaim" will be released from Kodansha Character Bunko! What is the saver system, the true purpose of the dog world? We are planning a development that works with music as well as the story of V-cinema! Kamen Rider Gaim isn't over yet! Expect more news!
Novel: Kamen Rider Ryuki (小説 仮面ライダー龍騎, Shōsetsu Kamen Raidā Ryūki) is a novel based on Kamen Rider Ryuki, part of the Heisei Kamen Rider Novels, was released on January 31st along with Kamen Rider Agito. It was written by Toshiki Inoue. "The last surviving one will be able to achieve any wish" -...
Wait for what? Where the hell did I say that the Mirror World was that? In fact, where did you get the idea that I was talking about the Mirror World at all? I wasn't I was talking about the cosmology of the entire verse not just the mirror world.
Taking out a flashlight, he lead me through the halls until we reached a wide room. The walls, floor, and ceiling were all mirrors, reflecting our images infinitely. In the corner, there was a stack of countless books. That’s when I realized this was big brother’s study room. “Do you know, Yui?” He asked, as well as the countless reflections of him. “Inside one mirror is another, and inside that one yet another. It continues on infinitely. But sometimes, as you keep passing through them, you can go to a different world.”
The Mirror world allows access to endless worlds.
Ryuki and Knight found themselves stuck in a wave of monsters.They were unable to cross the wave, and yet, they could still hear Yui and her brother...as if by telepathy. “Yui, don’t cause trouble. This is the only way you can be happy. I’m doing this for your sake and my own. If you die now, there’s no way for you to come back. Weren’t you searching for a new life?” “Of course I want to be happy! But I don’t want to snatch another persons away in order to do that!” “You’re not snatching away anything. You’re merely borrowing a life. The winner’s life will be projected through you. What are you so worried about? The person who wins will get their wish. I think that’s enough compensation.” What did that mean, Shinji wondered to himself as he fought off the monsters. the winner’s life would be projected through her? “I told you before, didn’t I Yui? Endless worlds are accessible through mirrors. Each one of them is just a little bit different. I’ll send the winner to the world of their choice. That will become their reality.” “It’ll be a world of lies! Why don’t you understand that? All you’re doing is a big lie!” “You’re wrong, Yui. This is all reality. All except for you, of course. That’s why you need a new life.your fate has already been decided. I decided it for you.” “You’re wrong, big brother!” Her voice began to fade. “My fate is for me to decide!”
Your implications and intentions were pretty clear what you were trying to argue with Ryuki's Mirror World. To me and several others it seemed very apparent you were trying to argue the Mirror World was multiversal or something similar to that.
See above but once more for reinforcement from your first reply to me on the first page:
Thegoldenboy2811 said:
The Mirror World in Ryuki is infinite.
Taking out a flashlight, he lead me through the halls until we reached a wide room. The walls, floor, and ceiling were all mirrors, reflecting our images infinitely. In the corner, there was a stack of countless books. That’s when I realized this was big brother’s study room. “Do you know, Yui?” He asked, as well as the countless reflections of him. “Inside one mirror is another, and inside that one yet another. It continues on infinitely. But sometimes, as you keep passing through them, you can go to a different world.”
The Mirror world allows access to endless worlds.
Ryuki and Knight found themselves stuck in a wave of monsters.They were unable to cross the wave, and yet, they could still hear Yui and her brother...as if by telepathy. “Yui, don’t cause trouble. This is the only way you can be happy. I’m doing this for your sake and my own. If you die now, there’s no way for you to come back. Weren’t you searching for a new life?” “Of course I want to be happy! But I don’t want to snatch another persons away in order to do that!” “You’re not snatching away anything. You’re merely borrowing a life. The winner’s life will be projected through you. What are you so worried about? The person who wins will get their wish. I think that’s enough compensation.” What did that mean, Shinji wondered to himself as he fought off the monsters. the winner’s life would be projected through her? “I told you before, didn’t I Yui? Endless worlds are accessible through mirrors. Each one of them is just a little bit different. I’ll send the winner to the world of their choice. That will become their reality.” “It’ll be a world of lies! Why don’t you understand that? All you’re doing is a big lie!” “You’re wrong, Yui. This is all reality. All except for you, of course. That’s why you need a new life.your fate has already been decided. I decided it for you.” “You’re wrong, big brother!” Her voice began to fade. “My fate is for me to decide!”
Novel: Kamen Rider Gaim (小説 仮面ライダー鎧武, Shōsetsu Kamen Raidā Gaimu, Novel: Kamen Rider Gaim), is a novel based off Kamen Rider Gaim. It is written by Gun Snark and Jin Haganeya, supervised by Gen Urobuchi. This story reveals the true intentions of Kugai Kudo and the Saver System, as well as...
Gaim Gaiden: Kamen Rider Knuckle (鎧武［ガイム］外伝 仮面ライダーナックル, Gaimu Gaiden Kamen Raidā Nakkuru) is a Japanese superhero Tokusatsu V-Cinema film serving as the fourth installment of Kamen Rider Gaim Gaiden, set within the continuity of Kamen Rider Gaim. In the film, Zack works to stop a formerly exiled...
Novel: Kamen Rider Ryuki (小説 仮面ライダー龍騎, Shōsetsu Kamen Raidā Ryūki) is a novel based on Kamen Rider Ryuki, part of the Heisei Kamen Rider Novels, was released on January 31st along with Kamen Rider Agito. It was written by Toshiki Inoue. "The last surviving one will be able to achieve any wish" -...
Neither of the status of canonical of these two novels have been verified. DCD's is the one exception, Agito's and Faiz's outright completely change the characterization, ending, epilogue, and plot points in their stories and were written years well after their shows had ended. You aren't going to argue this is as canon or over-rides the TV shows, do you?
We simply have no evidence besides what we know of Decade's novels (Toei, show's writers, in-universe tie-in stuff to explain use of AR in the show, etc...) to argue the other books/novelizations. Also the head writer of Gaim was Gen Urobuchi and he wasn't involved in the novel. Its more or less the same thing as the Stage Shows, we don't consider them canon and Toei has never referenced them in any canonical work. We don't know the status of Ex-Aid's novels or Build's but 99% of this stuff outright shouldn't counted because they often explicitly contradict the story of the shows.
The issue I have with your stance is you simply want to encompass everything into canon: we can't do that. The earlier majority of pre-DCD movies and special outright take places in weird time bubbles between certain episodes or others which serve as alternate endings. Agito's movie, the Ryuki-Agito HBV crossover special, Faiz, Hibiki and Kiva's stand-alone movies. Some others are harder to peg like Blade's movie which is an alternate ending or God-Speed-Love which explains 99% of everything with the time travel antics and dimension changing.
Post-DCD is when all the official crossovers are canon; Decade x Double, Double x OOOs, OOOs x Fourze, Fourze x Wizard, Wizard x Gaim, Gaim x Drive, Drive x Ghost, Ghost x Ex-Aid, Ex-Aid x Build, etc...The novels are generally afforded "more" credibility vs the HBVs, specials, and stage shows or SIC Figurt Art drama stuff but most of the time we don't count them.
Your implications and intentions were pretty clear what you were trying to argue with Ryuki's Mirror World. To me and several others it seemed very apparent you were trying to argue the Mirror World was multiversal or something similar to that.
Ryuki and Knight found themselves stuck in a wave of monsters.They were unable to cross the wave, and yet, they could still hear Yui and her brother...as if by telepathy. “Yui, don’t cause trouble. This is the only way you can be happy. I’m doing this for your sake and my own. If you die now, there’s no way for you to come back. Weren’t you searching for a new life?” “Of course I want to be happy! But I don’t want to snatch another persons away in order to do that!” “You’re not snatching away anything. You’re merely borrowing a life. The winner’s life will be projected through you. What are you so worried about? The person who wins will get their wish. I think that’s enough compensation.” What did that mean, Shinji wondered to himself as he fought off the monsters. the winner’s life would be projected through her? “I told you before, didn’t I Yui? Endless worlds are accessible through mirrors. Each one of them is just a little bit different. I’ll send the winner to the world of their choice. That will become their reality.” “It’ll be a world of lies! Why don’t you understand that? All you’re doing is a big lie!” “You’re wrong, Yui. This is all reality. All except for you, of course. That’s why you need a new life.your fate has already been decided. I decided it for you.” “You’re wrong, big brother!” Her voice began to fade. “My fate is for me to decide!”
Neither of the status of canonical of these two novels have been verified. DCD's is the one exception, Agito's and Faiz's outright completely change the characterization, ending, epilogue, and plot points in their stories and were written years well after their shows had ended. You aren't going to argue this is as canon or over-rides the TV shows, do you?
Novel: Kamen Rider Gaim (小説 仮面ライダー鎧武, Shōsetsu Kamen Raidā Gaimu, Novel: Kamen Rider Gaim), is a novel based off Kamen Rider Gaim. It is written by Gun Snark and Jin Haganeya, supervised by Gen Urobuchi. This story reveals the true intentions of Kugai Kudo and the Saver System, as well as...
They are connected to the main TV show, they serve as alternate endings. That doesn't make them canon just because Inoue was the writer and author of the novels, just as he was the main writer for the TV shows.
Novel: Kamen Rider Gaim (小説 仮面ライダー鎧武, Shōsetsu Kamen Raidā Gaimu, Novel: Kamen Rider Gaim), is a novel based off Kamen Rider Gaim. It is written by Gun Snark and Jin Haganeya, supervised by Gen Urobuchi. This story reveals the true intentions of Kugai Kudo and the Saver System, as well as...
>fandom I need to see explicit statements. As it standards like the stage shows, the novels, generally speaking serve as AUs or what ifs. @Vespa Crabro what do you know of the canonical of the novels besides the Decade ones being canon? Otherwise we treat them on a case by case basis with the majority of them being AU stuff.
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