• We are currently rolling out incremental alterations to the forum. Don't freak! You aren't going crazy.

Kamen Rider High tiers run a gauntlet.

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
I implied nothing there. I said the AR Worlds like the real Heisei Worlds in Decade are their own universes, you made a strawman there.
I said this:
You said that Kamen Rider cosmology being a megaverse is suspect. That's is my issue, there are countless/infinite alternate realities simply for each Rider World.
You said this:
Doesn't make it a megaverse. And no there are not, we don't treat alternate timelines or dimensions as full fledged universes as a standard here. KR being potentially on the top of the multiversal scale is one thing, megaversal is quite another.

When I was talking about countless/infinite realities I wasn't talking about alternate timelines or dimensions. I was talking about parallel worlds like Build.


Here: https://www.kamen-rider-official.com/the-gaim-fes/ttfc


A chronological map of events of Gaim. From the official site. You could probably find other things like this on the site or Wikipedia if you spend half a day on it.
 

Aurelian

Titan
Administrator
Decepticon
I said this:

You said this:
What I said has nothing to do with your strawman. You made an implication, I responded to that. Its really quite simple, my dude. Having countless parallel worlds, alternate realities and infinite universes doesn't make it a megaverse. Generally speaking nothing can be defined as a megaverse unless it involves multiple multiverses and genuinely reflects Cantor's Law of Cardinality for it to be accepted.

Having an infinite multiverse ! = being a megaverse.
When I was talking about countless/infinite realities I wasn't talking about alternate timelines or dimensions. I was talking about parallel worlds like Build.
You didn't make that clear. Also this is backpedaling considering you tried to sneak this claim with Ryuki's Mirror World from the novel while claiming you weren't implicitly trying to push that. We do not generally treat alternate timelines or eras as separate universes in the OBD, that's our standard. And I have yet to see much that indicates a different treatment needs to be applied to Kamen Rider.
A chronological map of events of Gaim. From the official site. You could probably find other things like this on the site or Wikipedia if you spend half a day on it.
Why would I spend "half a day" on Wikipedia to material I don't need to read when I've watched the show and its supplemental material? Especially with shows like Gaim that happen to be amongst my favorite ones?

The Bujin's/Sengoku World is another weird dimension thing. I don't contest the existence of a multiverse for Kamen Rider, its been apparent since Decade that's where the cosmology has gone. What I have an issue with is you trying to conflate with intent that Ryuki's Mirror World or Gaim's Bujin/Sengoku world was being evidence of "many" parallel worlds. Even though I'm quite fine with the World of Sengoku (Wizard x Gaim's movie setting) existing as another universe, it ceases to exist after the conclusion of the film's crossover events anyways.
 
Last edited:

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
I don't think I tried to sneak in any claim with the Ryuki cites. But from
what you said I'm guessing it's a difference on how we see things... But I haven't found anything saying it's explicitly canon so I'll just drop it anyway here's a google translation of the image above.

 

Aurelian

Titan
Administrator
Decepticon
Uh, yes I said it was a google translation. I'm not Japanese.
Well given the notoriety of how inaccurate machine translations are by AI, I can't really trust it. Either way you need to understand that having multiple to infinite universes is a multiverse, not a megaverse.
 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
Well given the notoriety of how inaccurate machine translations are by AI, I can't really trust it. Either way you need to understand that having multiple to infinite universes is a multiverse, not a megaverse.
Well I can use deepl. It's a bit more accurate.

 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member

I think I get what the problem was. I thought that you thought I said that the Mirror World contained a multiverse. While what you were actually you were saying was that the Mirror World would have then multiversal level reach right? Then yeah your right I was using the Novel as evidence for endless parallel universes cause that seems to be possible in the novel's version of the Mirror World.

However, since the novel is non-canon I guess we can't use it.

Also while it's true that I used the novel as evidence for parallel worlds it isn't my only piece of evidence.

In fact, I can make the argument without using anything from novels or final-stage shows. Just shows and movies.

Watch.

In Kamen Rider Build Sento introduces the concept of Alternate universes/parallel worlds.


(http://imgur.com/a/xDkoYW9)

Of which there are a countless/infinite amount. Meaning that the Build Rider World can be a countless/infinite multiverse, because there are countless/infinite alternate universes of it. And this is applicable to all the other Rider Worlds as well going by what Mogami says in the Heisei Gen Final: Build x Ex-Aid movie.


(http://imgur.com/a/tu33Jnh)

Going back in time to Decade, the Nine Worlds he travels to are AR Worlds.




Alternate realities based on the original Nine Heisei rider worlds.

And there are endless worlds going by what Decade says in the All Riders VS Dai-Shocker movie.


(http://imgur.com/a/CM3VPuL)

Since AR Worlds and Parallel Worlds as introduced in Build and Decade are just the same things. Each Heisei Rider World can also be an infinite multiverse since there are countless/infinite universes of them too.

And then this should scale all the back to Showa and into Reiwa. Thus each Rider World has countless/infinite versions of them, making each of them countless/infinite multiverses.

And so around 23+ possible countless/infinite multiverses should be considered a megaverse.

There. No novel sites, no Final Stage Show feats, nothing from the glossary website. Just my barebones argument with what's stated in the show and movies.
 

Aurelian

Titan
Administrator
Decepticon
You completely missed everything I said. I don't know why you are making so much or so many verbose arguments, simple fact of the matter is my stance is fairly simple and not nuanced at all:

- The Mirror World in Ryuki is not a multiverse
- I did not deny there is multiverse in Kamen Rider
- I have repeatedly stated from Kamen Rider Decade and onwards, we have numerous examples of Kamen Rider's cosmology showing parallel worlds, alternate realities, dimensions, and other universes in them
- Having infinite universes does not equate to a megaverse
- Nothing in Build, Zi-Oh, or any other series indicates a megaverse existing in Kamen Rider, only a multiverse
- The example you brought up with All Riders vs Dai-Shocker in Decade's movie does not say "endless worlds", he says the worlds expand endlessly, which is poetic and not literal in the context Tsukasa is using it

We have an infinite multiverse.
We do not have anything close to a megaverse.
 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
Having infinite universes does not equate to a megaverse
Yes, you said that having multiple multiverses makes a megaverse.


Nothing in Build, Zi-Oh, or any other series indicates a megaverse existing in Kamen Rider, only a multiverse
Except we know from Build that you can have infinite universes from 1 rider. Which I would called a multiverse. If you have infinite universes for 1 rider each then you’d have multiple multiverses, which would be a megaverse.