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MCU discussion thread: The beginning of the Endgame edition.

xenos5

xenos5

Objectionable Objection
V.I.P. Member
I'm not gonna lie. I loved it.

Maybe i'm just less cynical than you guys cause i'm still in my early 20s, or it's that i'm not at all examining the plot with a fine toothed comb like a movie critic would do. But for me this was a visual feast for the eyes, had great performances from pretty much everybody, and I believe actually addressed a common complaint people have with the MCU (the forced humor) as I think this had the least amount of jokes cutting the tension in any recent MCU movie.

You guys don't see it the way I do. And I get that. But even if we can't agree on what we like I hope we can get back to discussing feats and abilities at some point rather than this solely being the "I hate the MCU now" thread, cause isn't examining cool superpowers and talking about how they stack up against other superpowers from other series what the OBD's for?

For example
Wanda being able to not only resist Professor X's telepathy but kill him within the mind of an alternate universe Wanda she's possessing
or
Stephen being able to manipulate Evil Spirits while possessing an alternate Stephen's corpse
.
 
OtherGalaxy

OtherGalaxy

ยสี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่ สี่สี
V.I.P. Member
2023 OBD Awards - Best Debater
as much as i trash the mcu i actually dont hate it, i just wish it was as fun as it used to be

this was one of the newer movies I was looking forward to (along with gotg3 and thor4) and some of the decisions just sound kinda disappointing when you consider the source material
 
xenos5

xenos5

Objectionable Objection
V.I.P. Member
OtherGalaxy said:
as much as i trash the mcu i actually dont hate it, i just wish it was as fun as it used to be

this was one of the newer movies I was looking forward to (along with gotg3 and thor4) and some of the decisions just sound kinda disappointing when you consider the source material
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I think you should still check it out if you haven't seen it yet. See what you think :catwink
 
Stocking Anarchy

Stocking Anarchy

Marvelous
V.I.P. Member
Gordo said:
What the fuck

Shuma’s death scene is leaked on YouTube

they did my boy dirty, literally street tier in the MCU
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Gargantos is just a generic demon, not Shuma Gorath and not on Shuma's level. IIRC, Conan the Barbarian still has the rights to Shuma Gorath in terms of movies (the character appeared in the Conan books, then in the Conan Marvel comics, then in the Marvel comics IIRC).
xenos5 said:
I'm not gonna lie. I loved it.

Maybe i'm just less cynical than you guys cause i'm still in my early 20s, or it's that i'm not at all examining the plot with a fine toothed comb like a movie critic would do. But for me this was a visual feast for the eyes, had great performances from pretty much everybody, and I believe actually addressed a common complaint people have with the MCU (the forced humor) as I think this had the least amount of jokes cutting the tension in any recent MCU movie.

You guys don't see it the way I do. And I get that. But even if we can't agree on what we like I hope we can get back to discussing feats and abilities at some point rather than this solely being the "I hate the MCU now" thread, cause isn't examining cool superpowers and talking about how they stack up against other superpowers from other series what the OBD's for?

For example
Wanda being able to not only resist Professor X's telepathy but kill him within the mind of an alternate universe Wanda she's possessing
or
Stephen being able to manipulate Evil Spirits while possessing an alternate Stephen's corpse
.
Click to expand...
I mean fair enough if you do like it, nothing wrong with that. TBH, I do appreciate that there was far less bathos in this movie (which was one of my biggest problems in Doctor Strange 1). There was stuff I liked about the movie, I just thought the experience was...draining most part.

As for feats, most of it was interdimensional hax (summoning across universes, possession across universes, reality warping, travelling between universes) although TBF, there is some potentially huge stuff in there.
With America's power, Wanda would have been able to control the entire Multiverse the same way she controlled Westview.

At the end, Wanda destroyed all iterations of the evil book in the Multiverse, abet seemingly at the cost of her own life.
 
Gordo

Gordo

Marvelous
V.I.P. Member
Stocking Anarchy said:
Gargantos is just a generic demon, not Shuma Gorath and not on Shuma's level. IIRC, Conan the Barbarian still has the rights to Shuma Gorath in terms of movies (the character appeared in the Conan books, then in the Conan Marvel comics, then in the Marvel comics IIRC).
Click to expand...
Gargantos is the stand in for him. It’s meant to be Shuma, they just can’t say his name in the movie because of legal reasons
 
Stocking Anarchy

Stocking Anarchy

Marvelous
V.I.P. Member
Gordo said:
Gargantos is the stand in for him. It’s meant to be Shuma, they just can’t say his name
Click to expand...
I thought it was just a generic demon that Wanda summoned that looks like Shuma for trailer purposes. Not meant to be anything on Dormammu's level or far greater like in the comics from what I know.
 
Gordo

Gordo

Marvelous
V.I.P. Member
Stocking Anarchy said:
I thought it was just a generic demon that Wanda summoned that looks like Shuma for trailer purposes. Not meant to be anything on Dormammu's level or far greater like in the comics from what I know.
Click to expand...
At this point I’m not even sure what they’re doing with him

They can’t use Shuma’s name but they can use his design because the Conan Shuma looks like a giant spider demon

I think they just mixed him and Gargantos together and that’s the last time we’re gonna hear about anything relating to Shuma in the MCU
 
xenos5

xenos5

Objectionable Objection
V.I.P. Member
Stocking Anarchy said:
Gargantos is just a generic demon, not Shuma Gorath and not on Shuma's level. IIRC, Conan the Barbarian still has the rights to Shuma Gorath in terms of movies (the character appeared in the Conan books, then in the Conan Marvel comics, then in the Marvel comics IIRC).

I mean fair enough if you do like it, nothing wrong with that. TBH, I do appreciate that there was far less bathos in this movie (which was one of my biggest problems in Doctor Strange 1). There was stuff I liked about the movie, I just thought the experience was...draining most part.

As for feats, most of it was interdimensional hax (summoning across universes, possession across universes, reality warping, travelling between universes) although TBF, there is some potentially huge stuff in there.
With America's power, Wanda would have been able to control the entire Multiverse the same way she controlled Westview.

At the end, Wanda destroyed all iterations of the evil book in the Multiverse, abet seemingly at the cost of her own life.
Click to expand...
Yeah, while it's not confirmed EVERY universe had the darkhold it did seem to be strongly implied. So she potentially destroyed an infinite amount of it (since I believe it's mentioned the MCU multiverse is infinite in the movie).
 
Stocking Anarchy

Stocking Anarchy

Marvelous
V.I.P. Member
xenos5 said:
Yeah, while it's not confirmed EVERY universe had the darkhold it did seem to be strongly implied. So she potentially destroyed an infinite amount of it (since I believe it's mentioned the MCU multiverse is infinite in the movie).
Click to expand...
It was said to be infinite in Doctor Strange 1 & No Way Home too, apparently in What If too.

In No Way Home Doctor Strange also held back everyone who knew Peter Parker across the Multiverse, although he could only hold them off for so long.
 
Gordo

Gordo

Marvelous
V.I.P. Member
Solar Sailor said:
I realize that Joss Whedon’s Bruce Banner is the best version of live action Bruce Banner and the reason I didn’t like him later is because they basically just made him Mark Ruffalo

compare and contrast all of his scenes in Ragnarok + Infinity War vs “I could choke the life out of you and never change a shade”
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The MCU tried their best to write away most of Whedon’s stuff from the lore

Vision went from being more powerful than Thor and Hulk to a massive jobber that wouldn’t stand a chance against them now, Banner and Natasha’s relationship is entirely dropped, Ultron is conveniently never mentioned again until recently, etc
 
xenos5

xenos5

Objectionable Objection
V.I.P. Member
Gordo said:
The MCU tried their best to write away most of Whedon’s stuff from the lore

Vision went from being more powerful than Thor and Hulk to a massive jobber that wouldn’t stand a chance against them now, Banner and Natasha’s relationship is entirely dropped, Ultron is conveniently never mentioned again until recently, etc
Click to expand...
That shit was always weird though. He nearly kills her as the Hulk in the first Avengers movie and suddenly she’s the only one who can calm him down in the 2nd? Doesn’t help that Hulk is kind of mentally like a child…
 
Solar Sailor

Solar Sailor

Exceptional
2023 OBD Awards - Best Debater
Gordo said:
The MCU tried their best to write away most of Whedon’s stuff from the lore

Vision went from being more powerful than Thor and Hulk to a massive jobber that wouldn’t stand a chance against them now, Banner and Natasha’s relationship is entirely dropped, Ultron is conveniently never mentioned again until recently, etc
Click to expand...
To be fair, Banner and Natasha’s relationship was as abruptly dropped as it was brought up

the first movie firmly established that Bruce has SOME control the Hulk, but it was forgotten even by Whedon

Also yeah Vision jobbing and getting killed is so weird. Barely did anything in Civil War too.
 
Gordo

Gordo

Marvelous
V.I.P. Member
xenos5 said:
That shit was always weird though. He nearly kills her as the Hulk in the first Avengers movie and suddenly she’s the only one who can calm him down in the 2nd? Doesn’t help that Hulk is kind of mentally like a child…
Click to expand...
Yeah it was weird

but Whedon always does this kind of stuff when it comes to romance

He ships Buffy with Spike, a mass murdering soulless vampire who tried to kill her and rape her (although that last part was another writers’ idea, not his)


Solar Sailor said:
To be fair, Banner and Natasha’s relationship was as abruptly dropped as it was brought up

the first movie firmly established that Bruce has SOME control the Hulk, but it was forgotten even by Whedon

Also yeah Vision jobbing and getting killed is so weird. Barely did anything in Civil War too.
Click to expand...
Vision was retconned in power because of Civil War

the writers stated they wrote Thor and Hulk out of the film because they were too powerful
 
Cryso Agori

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
So Some nitpicks and things I liked about MOM.


I'm not sure how much I liked the 'evil Strange' just being yandere for Christine, since the trailers made him seem way more important.

The Gargantos monster was a visual spectacle, but I really hated how Strange literally gets knocked out with a wet slap. Like Wong does more damage to it than Strange does.

Also Strange jobs a lot. Like in Thor Ragnarok he messes with Thor and Loki like as if their children, and he showed he could manipulate reality in the mirror dimension in NWH and was powerful enough to hold back the multiverse. Or his fight with Thanos.

But here? He just traps the Scarlet Witch in the mirror dimension with a bunch of spikes. Really? That's all you could do Strange?

Also Strange not knowing that the Book Of Vishanti is real or about that Darkhold temple. Despite having been you know, the previous Sorcerer Supreme.

Another thing. Scarlet Witch being held back by Captain Carter, I don't read comics, but unless Captain Carter has some sort of other powers than being Captain America with a jetpack then why didn't Scarlet just snap her neck and be done with her? She literally took away Black Bolt's mouth and turned Reed Richards into pool noodles.

Also that chase scene with Scarlet. Like you know you could fly Wanda? Why are you hobbling towards them?

Really feels like Strange and Scarlet's powers and intelligence were taken from them.

Also, the Wraiths were cool when they appeared. But then when they surrounded Wanda they just went from generic ghoul screams to cartoonish 'baaaa's and 'gaaaaa's.

Of course, there are good things about this movie.

The CGI in this movie was great, much better than most. Strange's music battle with evil Strange was cool. Zombie Strange with that Wraith cloak was an incredibly badass look. Also, it's been so long since we had an MCU movie without cheesy jokes in every line that I forgot how much better the MCU could be if they just stopped doing that.

Strange's arc about realizing that he may never be truly happy but still moving forward was bittersweet, though I don't think that it's done yet.

Chavez may be a plot device, but she's a good plot device, and at least has a backstory.

Christine joining the team was unexpected but cool. I really liked the scene with her saving Strange from the Wraiths, it doesn't feel like a forced 'girl's are badass' scene like in endgame, but actually organic.

I was thinking that the third eye Strange get's from the Darkhold was gonna have consequences, but from that teaser it seems that it doesn't really affect Strange.
 
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