OBD Convo #29: outskirts nakama dome - no snatching edition

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Claudio Swiss

Claudio Swiss

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FrhI17FWcAA9RU1
 
Xhominid The Apex

Xhominid The Apex

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Shut up and take my money!
Masterblack06 said:
Speaking of Toyo and DBS
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10 Worst Writing Decisions In Dragon Ball Super

Dragon Ball Super is known for having a few hiccups with inconsistencies, retcons, and just plain terrible writing at times.
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This entire list is setting me off something fierce because most of this isn't even bad writing, it's just the typical bitching complaints:

"How dare Goku's body adapt to SSJG despite even GT showing that Saiyan bodies adapt to shit and even Toriyama brought it up with Jaco, The Galactic Policeman", "How dare Master Roshi matter? Yeah, how dare a Human get stronger in a series with Saiyans right? Don't bother training, you won't get the same gains as those Saiyans after there you filthy human"

I'm already flabbergasted and I'm just on the Number 13.
 
Adamant soul

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10 Worst Writing Decisions In Dragon Ball Super

Dragon Ball Super is known for having a few hiccups with inconsistencies, retcons, and just plain terrible writing at times.
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10) Goku Absorbing The Super Saiyan God Power
Goku has taken a few shortcuts throughout the entirety of Dragon Ball and sadly, Super Saiyan God is one of them. Goku has spent years training and the only way he was able to match Beerus in combat was by borrowing the power of others. This was an uncharacteristic thing for Goku to do, but it was the only shot at defeating Beerus, one of the strongest anime characters of all time.

However, the worst part is that Goku is somehow able to absorb this power and keep it as its own. He doesn't earn this power and the rest of his strength in the series is built up from this point. It doesn't make sense for the character or the show.
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I mean he DOES earn it, specifically by being willing to swallow his pride and borrow power from his friends to reach the form in the first place. But what does putting the needs of his home and loved ones ahead of himself matter in the grand scheme of things, am I right?

His body adapting to that power isn't even that weird, considering every time Goku advanced in power at a significant rate was after he'd seen or experienced someone who had a much higher level of power. When he just trains on his own he doesn't progress that far.

9) Master Roshi's Return
Master Roshi was a prominent character in the original Dragon Ball series. He was a highly skilled martial artist and helped train characters like Goku, Krillin, and Yamcha. However, Roshi was quickly surpassed by the main cast and soon fell behind in power and skill. This shifts in an odd way in Dragon Ball Super where the series suddenly brings Roshi back.
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It's almost like he's an incredibly capable fighter with a lot of abilities the others don't have access to. He wasn't brought back for his power level.
Despite being a retired fighter far weaker than the others, he returns in the Golden Frieza arc and manages to hold his own against Frieza's soldiers.
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Why is this a problem? Those Frieza soldiers were fodder and there was nothing to indicate they were beyond Roshi to begin with. Hell Krillin panicks at the thought of fighting them, only to realize "these guys are hella weak sauce" and beats the shit out of them.
Not only does this make any sense given his power, but he also ends up playing a major role in the Tournament of Power. This makes no sense considering how baffled Roshi was by other characters' skills in the original series.
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Major role? He takes out a few fodder competitors, gets fucking trolled and beaten by Frost and then is told to get out by Vegeta when he's clearly at his limit and can do no more. What MAJOR ROLE is he serving?

8) Potara Fusion Has Become Useless
Potara Fusion was initially seen as the strongest version of Fusion in Dragon Ball. This is in part due to the fact that Potara Fusion was originally supposed to be a permanent combination of two characters. Originally, there wasn't a strong explanation as to why Goku and Vegeta were unfused in Majin Buu's body, but this was retconned in Dragon Ball Super.
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OH NO! They actually provided a logical explanation for how Vegeto defused that didn't amount to "bad air" as it did originally?
Say it ain't so! :mjpls
In Dragon Ball Super, the Fusion now only lasts an hour, which is thirty minutes longer than the Dance Fusion. While this still made the Fusion seem more impressive than its counterpart, they ended up adding that their time is shortened dramatically the stronger they are. This makes Potara Fusion completely pointless.
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The idea of their time being shortened by their power was already a thing, that's exactly what happened to SSJ4 Gogeta. It also depends on how hard they're fighting as SSjB Gogeta didn't defuse as fast against Broly. This only ends up speaking to how strong Merged Zamasu was, not how "useless" Potara fusion is.

Especially when Potara Fusion is what allowed Kale and Caulifla to genuinely push Goku to his limit and help him take a step towards mastering Ultra Instinct.

7) Letting Frieza Join Team Universe 7
Frieza is a villain who never learns from his mistakes and has constantly returned in Dragon Ball. His resurrection for the Tournament of Power felt so unbelievably out of character for Goku and Frieza. Goku knows the danger of Frieza and already learned his lesson in the Golden Frieza arc that his mercy was a mistake. That's why he quickly kills Frieza after Whis turns back time.
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Their entire universe was at stake, one of their heavy hitters was going to miss the tournament due to an extended nap and they quite literally had no better option. I mean what was the alternative, fucking YAMCHA?

This once again is a good example of Goku putting the needs of Universe 7 over himself. It actually does make a good bit of sense.
There's absolutely no reason that Goku would've returned this kind of danger to the world. Secondly, Frieza despises Goku and the others with a deep hatred that goes far beyond the care of his own life. Revenge was all that was important to Frieza, no matter how illogical his rashness had been. But to fight alongside Goku and Vegeta simply didn't make sense.
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Frieza had also been confined to a mind-numbing existance in Hell and was desparate for a way out. Weather he hates Goku or not, he's not going to say no to a chance to be brought back to life and get out of that shit, how would he get his revenge otherwise?

6) The Universes Are Dry & Feel Small
One of the most exciting aspects of the Tournament of Power was to see the various new species that would come from each universe. There was an opportunity to add deep backstories with interesting worldbuilding as well, however little was done in this regard.

Instead, the universes didn't feel vast, complex, or interesting at all. Many of them didn't even feel like a single planet due to how they shared the same culture. A planet itself should already be diverse with many different cultures and beliefs. So for an entire universe to be relatively the same with a few different races made absolutely no sense.
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This is one of the few where he KIND of has a point. Trying to incorporate this into the actual Tournament of Power wouldn't really have worked, as it would drag the arc out FAR too long. But the other universes definitely stand to get some development after the tournament.

5) Ultra Instinct
Ultra Instinct has been a huge headache in both the anime and the manga. In the anime, the transformation simply served as a plot armor device with no real apparent depth. It was just a technique that Goku unlocked every time he was near the brink of being defeated.
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Ultra Instinct was a concept brought up as early as Resurrection of F. Rather than just being a power up, it's a technique that allows the user to move without thinking, radically improving their reaction time. However it requires to completely calm their mind, which is something even Goku found difficult to do.

Goku being able to tap into the state out of desparation when he was near the point of being defeated, seems fair enough in my opinion.
In the manga, there is an effort to give more meaning to the transformation and ability. Recently in the Granolah arc, Ultra Instinct has become far more interesting. However, its initial debut didn't make much sense, and it brought flashbacks to Goku of training from his childhood of trials that he had already mastered. The story seems to constantly regress Goku's skill as a warrior.
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Fair point with regards to the manga though.

4) Gogeta Was Simply Fanservice
The entirety of Dragon Ball Super: Broly was a fanservice film. The movie compiled some of the most popular movies all into one: Bardock, the Father of Goku, Broly – The Legendary Super Saiyan, Broly – Second Coming, and Fusion Reborn. Goku and Vegeta never had a true reason to fuse against Broly.
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Yeah aside from how badly Broly was beating their asses, how quickly he was growing in power and the fact they had no other way of defeating Broly, they had NO REASON TO FUSE AT ALL. :kobeha
Previously, Goku and Vegeta only ever fused when fighting against an enemy who wasn't using their own strength. This is one reason why Goku refuses to use Fusion against Kid Buu.
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No they fused whenever they came up against an enemy who was too powerful for them to fight otherwise. Kid Buu wasn't that strong and therefore Goku let his pride get the better of him.

Stop trying to invent problems where there isn't one.
However, there's little debate or discussion about this in Broly and the two of them begin their attempts to fuse into Gogeta against one of the deadliest Dragon Ball characters almost immediately.
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Almost immediately? They spent a good chunk of the movie's runtime getting their asses kicked by him.

3) Cereal's Dragon Balls
There have been a fair share of Dragon Balls featured in the franchise. However, none have had lazier or worse writing than Planet Cereal's. The dragon, Toronbo, grants only one wish but only two Dragon Balls are even required to summon him. On top of this incredibly convenient dragon, the Dragon Balls do not turn into stone after being used.

This means that wishes can be granted over and over again as long as the balls can be found each time. There also aren't any obvious limitations to Toronbo's powers as he's able to make Granolah and Gas both incredibly more powerful. There is a drawback to this wish, but it feels like far too convenient of a plot device in the story.
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Eh I'll give him this one, those sound way too damn convenient.

I mean sure Dende updated Earth's Dragon Balls to grant more wishes but that was only something done later and they still turn to stone afterwards.

2) Beast Gohan Is Too Unoriginal
Beast Gohan is Gohan's strongest Dragon Ball form yet but is one of the worst-designed transformations in Dragon Ball and the writing behind the form isn't much better. The entire intent of the transformation is for it to mirror Gohan's Super Saiyan 2 form from the Cell Games.

The scene is almost exactly the same as Gohan's transformation in the Cell Games, and it happens against another version of Cell. This was expected given how many similarities Super Hero already had with the Cell Games, but the lack of originality is painfully apparent. It instead cheapens Gohan's original Super Saiyan 2 scene.
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Cheapens the original scene how exactly? What kind of asinine bullshit is that? Just because you pay homage to something doesn't cheapen it.

It's not a great design but that applies to basically every transformation in Super aside from Ultra Instinct, what makes Gohan Beast particularly bad, aside from it paying homage to Gohan's most inconic form and fight?

1) The Power Creep
Hitting the wall of the gods was an incredible feat on both Goku and Vegeta's parts. Beerus's strength was incredible when he was first introduced. So much so, that a Super Saiyan 3 Goku couldn't injure him at all. While Goku and Vegeta are able to get to this point through intense godly training, somehow the other cast members are able to keep up.

Goku and Vegeta had already been leagues ahead of most of the other characters before even reaching the level of a god, so it makes no sense that most of the other characters should've been anywhere near that level. This power creep was an issue throughout the series, and it felt as if the series simply didn't care. Characters were as strong as they needed to be for the plot.
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Except the ONLY characters who truly power crept up to SSJG levels where Frieza, Piccolo, Gohan. Android 17 and Future Trunks. YES this IS a problem, but it's one that you're massively exaggerating by acting like it applies to every character..

The human characters amongst others never reached anywhere near that level and though they still got a lot stronger, it was to much more reasonable degrees. The human fighters in the ToP were pushed more for their skills and abilities than their raw power level.
 
Masterblack06

Masterblack06

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>Digimon Ghost Game newest episode has the MC's digimon's evil half take over
>As a champion it was already bodying Ultimates and a few megas
>Digivolves into ultimate
>Has power on the level of Megidramon
>has an attack that absorbed all matter as well as light
>Gets seperated from the MC's Digimon
>procceeds to one shot him
>Can still digivolve further

Bro what the fuck
 
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