El Hermano
Acclaimed
Actually stonewalling evidence. Selectively skipping what I showed and taking it out of context.
Brilliant.
Brilliant.
One Piece Tier/Feat/Canon/Toei Discussion Thread Part 3: Road to star level
- Thread starter El Hermano
- Start date
Katakuri being much faster than base Luffy is manga fact. Luffy only trained his CoA in udon and with his FS he can dodge Thunder Bagua which shows Katakuri who is much faster than base Luffy can dodge Thunder Bagua 100% without injuries.
You can look at below panels.
Katakuri hit FS base Luffy multiple times. Katakuri is much faster than base FS Luffy.
Katakuri beat Luffy with FS too much that he asked Luffy to get up again lol.
El Hermano
Acclaimed
I literally showed you Luffy dodging Katakuri during the only true instance of him using FS during their battle, you completely skipped that. Current Luffy now can consistently use at the very least the same level of FS(pretty much mastered it).
Once again, you're stonewalling and being willfully ignorant. I hate to sound like a dick but this is not worth more of my time.
WCI Luffy=Rooftop Luffy in term of FS. Luffy trained his CoA in Udon. Luffy can't keep dodging Katakuri attack since Katakuri kept beating the dog shit out of base luffy with FS. If he's as fast as Katakuri then Luffy won't fall and katakuri didn't have to ask him to get up again. He can't keep dodging Katakuri attack since even with FS, Katakuri is still much faster than base FS Luffy.
That’s not what the evidence shows.
we see throughout his fight with Kaido that he is much more adept at using future sight than before
in the Beginning of Wano, Luffy in Gear 4th couldn’t react to base Kaido’s Thunder Bagua. Base Luffy in the Roof Top reacted much better
Luffy made it clear he only wanted to train his CoA at Udon. No panel shows he wanted to train his speed in udon. Luffy didn't mentiont lack of speed was the reason of his defeat against Kaido.
Luffy can't use FS properly since he wasnt calm against Kaido at Flower Capital. Luffy can't use FS properly before rooftop. Even Ulti caught Luffy the same Ulti who needed hybrid and Page One help to catch Nami and Usopp.
It doesn’t matter. Just because you aim to train a specific aspect, doesn’t mean other aspects are ignored nor does it imply they aren’t improved
He very much did a better job dodging that attack than he did previously in G4
That’s true. But by the same token, Ulti seemed to require G4 to take her down. She’s had objectively the best feats outside the Flying Six, so it’s not a distinctive indicator that Luffy’s future sight didn’t improve
He did better job because he was calm at the rooftop. It's not new Luffy can;t use FS properly after WCI especially when Luffy got caught by Ulti who needed hybrid and Page One to catch Nami and usopp. Luffy wasn't calm vs kaido at Flower Capital therefore he can't dodge Thunder bagua and manga made it clear Luffy didnt train his speed and FS in Udon he only trained his CoA> It matters a lot because you need panel to back up your claim that Luffy wanted to train his FS at Udon when manga only says Luffy only wanted to train his CoA in udon to penetrate Kaido scale.
Ulti is slow she was on fullzoan which is slower than her hybrid form and Luffy still can't dodge her since Luffy can't use FS properly. So it's similar case with Luffy vs Kaido at Flower Capital and Luffy needed G4 to get out of Ulti grip is irrelevant to FS. It's relevant to Ulti physical strength which has nothing to do with FS. What's relevant is Ulti speed since she needed hybrid and Page One to catch Nami and Usopp and much slower Ulti caught Luffy (Ulti was in fullzoan form when she caught Luffy) showed Luffy didn't use FS properly before rooftop.
Warlordgab
Illustrious
Someone claiming WCI Luffy = Rooftop Luffy, even when evidence says otherwise
I don't necessarily keep up with One Piece but are they stone-walling? Not providing evidence to refute earlier claims?
Luffy didn’t “get caught”. Ulti and him headbutted each other and she recovered before Luffy did because she is an Ancient Zoan specifically built for headbuts.
Luffy then said he needed G4 to break her grip.
We don’t need a specific panel that states Luffy needed to impove his CoA, because on-screen comparisons with Initial Wano G4 Luffy and current BASE Luffy is very obvious
Luffy was angry when he fought Kaido. That’s for sure. But he was also in Gear 4, something that should be much, MUCH faster than Base Form Luffy.
The differences are too staggering to just assume he didn’t improve. The physical evidence is there. And physical evidence always trumps verbal statements.
Warlordgab
Illustrious
Stonewalling + cherrypicking
He got caught because his FS wasn't active to dodge slow fullzoan Ulti grip.
You need to calm to use CoO and Luffy wasn't calm he was angry to Kaido who injured Tama it'a no different than Luffy FS wasn't active to dodge slow fulkzoan Into grip.
Evidence is there Luffy said he only wanted to train his CoA not FS or speed it's something you made up. Why didn't Luffy mention about training his FS or speed in Udon if Luffy really trained his fS and speed? You made that up
Physical evidence is there Luffy got caught by slow fullzoan Into grip because he didn't use FS properly this is no different with his fight with Kaido at Flower capital. Luffy didn't care about improving his FS and speed. All he care was improving his CoA in Udon to penetrate Kaido scale.
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Just to make things clear
in Chapter 983
She caught him while he was in the middle of beating up Paypay
he wasn’t trying to evade her.
Luffy is angry at Kaido in all instances.
but even regardless of that, that was still G4 Luffy that failed to dodge Kaido and got oneshot
Again, G4 Luffy couldn’t dodge something that Base Luffy at a later date could. Future Sight alone doesn’t make your body fast enough to react by itself.
You’re really ignoring what I’m saying here.
I’m saying all his haki and Luffy’s reactions improved, objectively.
Because its not really something he needs to say? His training not being specifically tailored to FS doesn’t mean his FS didn’t improve. Haki improves through battle and training. We already know this.
Even Black Beard has pointed out how much better Luffy’s Haki in impel down despite Luffy not knowing dick about utilizing Haki. So we know Haki as a whole can improve if the person can get stronger and more determined.
Gonna need abridged foot notes with evidence of this before I can take action. Can anyone else vouch the same or provide evidence? Because I want to remind everyone that disagreeing is fine, debating is fine but putting your head in the sand and trying to selectively pick which does or doesn't count is not fine.
@Orwellian
i checked that debate
el hermano was right, 6/10 times, the other guy was making some points, but used in the end lot's of headcanon and yeah, he was stonewalling
i just wanted to point out the situation, we had those asinine debates back in fanZverse a lot, they must not be part of this forum as well
i checked that debate
el hermano was right, 6/10 times, the other guy was making some points, but used in the end lot's of headcanon and yeah, he was stonewalling
i just wanted to point out the situation, we had those asinine debates back in fanZverse a lot, they must not be part of this forum as well
@Its Over I understand arguing passionately. And I get you have a strong belief in your view on how this works but I have spent the last few minutes reviewing your posts in relation to Solar Sailor's and El Hermano's, and it does seem as if you are ignoring evidence that has been consistently posted that undermines your own arguments regarding WCI Luffy.
No excuse. If Luffy can use FS properly he should be able to dodge slow zoan Ulti grip. Luffy even needed G4 to get out of Ulti grip implying Luffy would have dodged her if he could to if he could use his FS properly. Katakuri won't ever get caught by slow zoan Ulti.
I already said you need calm to use CoO Katakuri stated this during his fight with Boundman and Luffy wasn't calm since he was angry that Kaido injured Tama.
I addressed this if his FS improved he won't get caught by slow zoan Ulti he should have seen 5 seconds into the future where Ulti would have grabbed him in her slow zoan mode and He would have mentioned in Udon he would improve his FS if Luffy really wanted to improve his FS. Luffy only stated he wanted to prove his CoA not his FS/speed.
Yeah He had to say it if you want Luffy to really improve his FS. All Luffy cared about in Udon was improving his CoA to penetrate Kaido scale not to improve his FS.
Pre TS Luffy fought many extreme battles to improve his haki from Enel, Lucci, Moria to Pacifista in Sabaody while in Udon Luffy only fought fodders and only trained his CoA and your headcannon said Luffy improve his FS greatly ignoring Luffy got caught by slow zoan Ulti.
Or maybe ypu overrate Marco so much ignoring that DR Luffy also fought admiral.
Or Maybe you overrate Zoro Hakai feat too much in think No Body can replicate Zoro physical strength feat when Zoro with his physical strength can't push back Apoo.
And if you know common sense Cracker/Smoothie>Perospero makes sense since Cracker/Smoothie VC say they are 1 of the strongest members of BMP and Pero VC says he's one of the most skilled member of BMP.
Also if you think Jack>Perospero when Jack with help can't beat Inu while sneak attacked Pero still put Neko on the floor you need to reread chapter 1026
I saw WCI Luffy with FS got beaten by katakuri so I have no reason to think base Luffy with FS is as fast as Katakuri.
Yeah argument that Luffy magically improved his FS after Udon when manga says Luffy only trained his CoA in Udon and you need calm to use CoO unlike Luffy who wasn't calm since Kaido injured Tama. It seems like you want Katakuri to get 1 shot by Kaido so you refuse to believe that Luffy could have dodged TB all along if he's calm at Flower Capital as has been shown on the roof
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