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Soulsborne Discussion, Feats & Analysis

OtherGalaxy

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Spoilers, but posting these here. Some images have leaked from the Elden Ring DLC Expo.
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A few areas not seen in the trailers yet
 

OtherGalaxy

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select people and review sites have had access to the first 3 hours of the game. I haven't had a chance to watch much, but read one of them. Obviously don't read if you plan on going into the game blind, but I'm really only highlighting two things I think have some lore/feat significance
the Lion Dance boss can control the weather. It uses not just thunderstorms but also snowstorms. There is another boss called "Twin Moon Knight" which is fascinating, first character we have seen with an allegiance to both major moons?

There's also a character who fought alongside Radahn before coming to the Land of Shadows, so interested in that
 

OtherGalaxy

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been following updates closely as I can so my initial impressions/theories (any item descriptions I'm referencing are mostly from Vaati's video, as he's the only person so far to document them)

There's a heavy emphasis with the Crucible/Lion Dancer culture about Divinity, "Divine Beast" is a unique classification, and for the first time Heavens are mentioned, which Storms represent (could this tie into Placidusax's storm outside time? More pressing though, when the Lion Dancer is killed, there's another npc called the Empyrean Grandam who narrates the cutscene, and refuses to speak to you. They hate you and Marika (they basically call Marika a whore, I'm taking this also to mean Messmer is a bastard child as others have theorized), but they specifically say the Divine Beast was sent from a Higher Sphere, so we could be getting some truly revelationary cosmology in this DLC. This is the first time a higher plane beyond the universe is implied at all.

There's another, very minimal line, I haven't seen anyone speak on, but the Solitary Knights have two crests and one represents the "light of birth", given the tower of Belarut leads to the "Gate of Divinity", I think this light is where Marika became a god, and why the trailer scene of her ascending the fleshy steps, has two skies in it, one resembling the Elden Beast's summoned realm and one being more of a purple stormy hue. Also the strings Marika pulls from the unknown womblike object(?) resemble not just the strings of the Elden Ring in her hammer in early trailers, but also the galactis supercluster Laniakea in real life, which the strings in the Elden Beast's body resemble.

There's also been debate about the timeline, as the Wicker Men have Fire Giant heads on their waists, even though Fire Giant war was at the very beginning of the Erdtree. Now that we have clearer footage, these look to be metal masks modelled after Giants. My current theory is Messmerflame (it's actually called this) was modelled after the Giant's Flame of Ruin, which is why his fire is given so much emphasis in the trailer. The color is similar, and he is the only character to have a flame named after himself, which emphasizes its unique and important properties, possibly similar to Giant's Flame being able to burn something that only exists in abstract non-physical form.

One big lore bomb mentioned offhand is an item called Marika's Blessing,, this one's a major spoiler so I'll keep it under a second lock
which indicates Miquella was blessed by her for his journey into the Shadowed Lands. This is pretty huge and I have no idea what to make of it, as it had long been thought Miquella, like many other characters, was working against Marika. The more I learn about her the more of a puppetmaster character she is.

EDIT: other theory regarding the Omen
In the DLC there's a people called the "Hornsent", like the Omen and Crucible tied things in the base game, they are covered in horns, and I assume Lion Dancer is one of them. I don't actually think there is anything different about them from the Omen, as we are never clearly given a reason WHY the Omen are hated in the Lands Between, it's just weird fantasy racism. The Hornsent are considered like royalty in the Lands of Shadow, and give they are enemies of Marika, this racism could entirely be based in cultural bias due to her stamping out the Shadow Lands cultures and people. iirc the Omen's souls don't return to the Erdtree, but given Marika hates the Crucible and reformed it into the Erdtree, I can easily see how this just reinforces this, not contradicts it.
 
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OtherGalaxy

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someone compiled all dialogue and descriptions vaati provided


Closer observation on the Empyrean Grandam's dialogue
She speaks of the Divine Beasts as being something from the higher sphere/heaven that she prays will inhabit the body of the Lion Dancers. This is really goddamn interesting and I think also goes a way towards explaining why the hell the Elden Beast is considered a Beast at all, something that always confused me. There's also Zullie pointing out recently the Elden Beast has five fingers, and the Beastmen are said to have gained intelligence along with their 5th digit. Something going on here
 

OtherGalaxy

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big updates and more lore from another participant of the early 3 hour playtest, he also clarifies that the Big Spoiler I mentioned earlier was not actually true, it’s something else
 

OtherGalaxy

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red bull did their livestream yesterday with some new footage and reveals, I didn’t see anything super lore spoilery but there is one really cool thing we are getting

Ashes of War based on Malenia’s dive when she uses scarlet aeonia, and one where we can do General Radahn’s psycho crusher style gravity spiral attack. Sick as hell
 

ChaosTheory123

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LMFAO NOT INLY WERE THESE RIDICULOUS ASS LEAKS REAL WE HAVE A DIRECT CONFIRMATION OF LIGHTSPEED ATTACKS :skully


this dlc is gonna be a cluster fuck for powerscaling n I can tell you that
You can also now use Torrent in the Elden Beast fight

So no more needing to stack Holy Resist equip to negate needing to spend 90% of the fight chasing that asshole across the map :hm
 

OtherGalaxy

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You can also now use Torrent in the Elden Beast fight

So no more needing to stack Holy Resist equip to negate needing to spend 90% of the fight chasing that asshole across the map :hm
really shocked that took so long for them to add, not only did it make sense from a gameplay perspective but Torrent's our guy...why would he not be there for the final battle
 

OtherGalaxy

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Some thoughts, mega spoilers inbound, but I'll keep those in a second spoiler

So from a scaling standpoint, at least going through item descriptions and such thus far, it's actually much more barebones than I expected. Miquella's Eclipse seems to be a red herring...I haven't found any mention of it at all, and this is despite Godwyn having a pretty notable presence and lore in the DLC. There's...kind of a possible reason for this but I'll get to that later.

The most interesting character to me right now by far, is Count Ymir, a former Carian who knows a lot about the cosmos. Also may be From's unique way at writing a transgender character because Ymir constantly speaks of wanting to be a mother. Generally one of the nicer characters too from what I can tell. Ymir has some interesting revelations about the universe and the Greater Will

Long ago, we began as stardust, born of a great rupture far across the skies.
We, too, are children of the Greater Will.
This seems to either be a reference to the big bang, or a supernova. If it's the former, it proves the Greater Will made the universe, which I think was always fairly clear but it's good to have a direct reference. if the latter, then it drives home further that stars in Elden Ring are "real stars" and not meteorites as some claim, so it bolsters the general upscaling we get from Radahn.

Ymir's questline is intricately linked with a major boss called Metyr, Mother of Fingers. Her remembrance is as follows
The mother of all Two Fingers and Fingercreepers was in turn a magnificently gleaming daughter of the Greater Will, and the first shooting star to fall upon the Lands Between.
So we have confirmation that the Greater Will sends shooting stars to the Lands Between, confirming that the Elden Stars description isn't in conflict with there being real stars. Additionally, she's the mother of all the Two Fingers! That's pretty crazy, it's been theorized they came from space, but now we know the specifics.

We get some more cosmic stuff from one of her items, the Staff of the Great Beyond
Staff fashioned from the tail-fingers of Metyr, the Mother of Fingers, and the microcosm raised aloft over the crux they form. Catalyst for casting both sorceries and incantations. The Mother received signs from the Greater Will from the beyond of the microcosm. Despite being broken and abandoned, she kept waiting for another message to come.
So if I'm interpreting this correctly, the universe in Elden Ring is the "Microcosm", which Metyr creates a miniature version or image of, and the Greater Will exists in the 'beyond'.

Fleeting Microcosm Finger Sorcery
A finger sorcery of Count Ymir, High Priest. One of the secret hallowed rites. Conjures an image of a microcosm at a foe's feet that pulses with a single wave before disappearing in a burst. Charging enhances potency. The broken and discarded are fully willing to cling to fleeting simulacra, earning them some modicum of sympathy.
Straightforward, it's an image of the universe in a spell. Metyr also uses the Microcosm to use an attack resembling an event horizon, but there's no lore on this.


We also get some Dragon lore. We know who took Placidusax's heads, and it wasn't Godfrey, but another Dragon named Bayle the Dread, who somehow spawned the Drakes/Lesser Dragons. The Ancient Dragons also became extremely racist after this and fomented Dragon Communion so that the Lesser Dragons would be wiped out. Fitting they would join the Golden Order I guess.

Talisman of the Dread
Talisman depicting the dread dragon of the jagged peak, whose roars cause the peak's molten fury to boil and churn.
Raises potency of magma.
Bayle was the foul dragon's name—a terrible harbinger of destruction whose challenge to the ancient Dragonlord ended in grievous mutual injury.

Ancient Dragon priestess
In a time long past, Bayle turned upon the Dragonlord.
The foul traitor assailed our master and inflicted a grievous wound, only to make a hasty retreat.
Becoming a sworn enemy of the brood.
Since that day, Bayle and his bloodline—the drakes— have served as sacrifices for Dragon Communion.
Landbound warrior. My lord, Placidusax, has shown your kind what must be done.
Seek communion. Sate your boundless appetite.
Feel the euphoria of a dragon's essence taking root in your meagre frame.
Bayle is a bit confusing, he doesn't resemble the ancient Dragons exactly, or the other type of Ancient Dragon whose corpses we see in Farum Azula, but he also predates the drakes and doesn't look like them either. He uses a mixture of flame and lightning of an orangey hue, sort of the midpoint between the lightning wielding ancients and firebreathing drakes? Can't tell what his deal is.
There's also the odd description of the Hefty Red Lightning Pot

Craftable item prepared using a capacious cracked pot.A goodly amount of materials is sealed inside.
Throw at an enemy to inflict heavy lightning damage that links to surrounding enemies.
The ancient dragons who betrayed their lord to side with a tyrant were known for wielding branching red lightning.
This seems to imply that Placidusax was betrayed by the Ancient Dragons who allied with the Golden Order, which I suppose explains why he lost his era.


The final mega spoiler
Regarding Radahn and Miquella

For those who don't know, Radahn is the final boss. And is listed as Miquella's promised consort. Yes, it's as weird as it sounds, but from the text I've been able to go through, I think that's the point, Miquella was always meant to be subtly unnerving, and it is my opinion (not just because I'm a Radahn fanboy, but because of the item descriptions), that Radahn didn't actually want this, and this is an example of Miquella's 'terrifying love' we've heard about.

The major thing is the Young Lion set we unlock after the boss.
The golden helm worn by Radahn in his younger years. Proudly displaying his heroic red hair, it is fitting attire for a lion. When Malenia, Blade of Miquella, let the rotflower blossom in Aeonia, Radahn heard a murmur in his ear— "Miquella awaits thee, O promised consort."
This does not sound like Radahn and Miquella had this planned from this beginning. This makes it seem like Miquella sent Malenia to kill Radahn because he was obsessed with him, nothing we know of Radahn either in DLC (so far) or base game supports him going to war for no purpose, and the base game is explicit about Malenia marching on Caelid, she is the aggressor. The other thing that stands out is we aren't exactly facing "Prime" Radahn...we are fighting Radahn in his youth, and given Miquella put Radahn's soul into Mohg's corpse to revive him as a younger version of Radahn he fell in love with, this is a strong implication to me that none of this was consensual or planned between the two.
We also get to see a memory of Miquella asking Radahn to promise to be his consort...however you can't actually see Radahn in the memory, and Radahn does not have a single line of dialogue in their fight, as if he's not acting on his own. It is all from Miquella's POV. There is a line in the datamined dialogue where Radahn simply says "I am general radahn son of red haired radagon and rennala" but even that is bizarre. Why would that be all he says? As far as I know it's cut however.

Now, this does not necessarily mean this was Malenia's fault either, which I initially thought. Because Miquella's Great Rune weaves an enchantment over people that causes them to blindly pursue him and manipulates their emotions. Miquella dispells it at one point and various characters react, including a former servant of Mohg, who confirms Mohg was under the enchantment as well. He actually attacked Miquella to free Mohg from the spell before falling victim to it himself. So Mohg and Malenia are to some degree probably innocent. Mohg beat the allegations. This was all an extremely bizarre and convoluted plan to obtain Radahn's soul. This may explain why Radahn actually stopped the stars, if he did not agree to being his half-brother's consort, then he may have halted fate intentionally to put an end to it. Which had the side effect of ruining Miquella's genuinely benevolent plans for Godwyn's body. Miquella was just smarter, and cast off his body and everything tying him to fate, and then somehow used Mohg's corpse as a gateway to the Land of Shadow (Ansbach says Mohg was used for this, no explanation on how Miquella's body in the cocoon factors in because that's how we get there).

Ansbach said:
Once, in an attempt to free Lord Mohg from his enchantment,
[1160600050] I challenged Tender Miquella, only to have my own heart rather artfully stolen.
[1160600060] I knew not how weak I was.
[1160600070] I believed that with sufficient mastery, even an Empyrean would be within reach of my blade.
[1160600080] I could not have been more mistaken...
[1160600090] Miquella the Kind...is a monster.
[1160600100] Pure and radiant, he wields love to shrive clean the hearts of men.
[1160600110] There is nothing more terrifying.
[1160800000] After Lord Mohg's slaying at his dynastic palace,
[1160800010] it appears his body has been absconded with.
[1160800020] And taken straight to Kind Miquella.
[1160800030] Surely you recall that I once served Lord Mohg as a Pureblood Knight.
[1160800040] After failing him in every regard, and losing sight of my vows,
[1160800050] I'd do anything to make amends, in whatever meagre way I can.
[1160900000] What could they possibly have in mind for Lord Mohg's remains?
[1160900010] The implications are rather...unnerving.
[1161000000] Well, what's this...
[1161000010] ...
[1161000020] Yes, yes, I should have known.
[1161000030] Even the truth was itself mere folly.
[1161000040] As if using Lord Mohg to gain entrance to the land of shadow were not enough,
[1161000050] he plans to use his corpse as the vessel of his king consort.
[1161000060] He has forsaken Lord Mohg's soul. He desires only his empty shell.
[1161000070] It beggars belief, but…
[1161000080] I'm afraid Tender Miquella fails to grasp the humiliation implied by this act.
[1161000090] One thing is certain. My dear lord deserved better.
[1163880000] Oh, something you want to get off your chest?
[1163880010] Well, you needn't worry.
[1163880020] It was you, wasn't it? Who defeated Lord Mohg.
[1163880030] ...
[1163880040] Fear not, I bear no grudge against you.
[1163880050] His Eminence was felled in an honourable duel, and such are the risks of seeking Lordship.
[1163880060] Besides, what right have I to complain? I blame the enchantment more than anything.
[1163880070] Righteous Tarnished. We will have our victory.
[1163880080] I swear upon my blood.
Ansbach also believes the only reason we even fight Mohg was due to Miquella's enchantment.

A former Redmane, Freyja, had this to say
[1170500000] Kindly Miquella spoke...
[1170500010] of the vow he once made with General Radahn.
[1170500020] And...it is here the vow shall be honoured.
[1170500030] I am a Redmane.
[1170500040] I must know the nature of the vow.
But again, this vow by her own words is coming from Miquella's pov to her, which makes me question whether Radahn ever actually agreed to it or not.
[1170900000] From Sir Ansbach, to me?
[1170900010] What on earth could it...
[1170900020] Oh...? Hmm...?
[1170900030] Yes, of course, I see.
[1170900040] As the festival of war concluded, General Radahn's soul met an honourable end.
[1170900050] But Kindly Miquella wishes to revive it.
[1170900060] ...Which is fine by me.
[1170900070] I know it would pain old Jerren, but war has always suited General Radahn best.
[1170900080] And certainly far more than any honourable death.
[1170900090] Endless war to invigorate the soul.
[1170900100] As befits General Radahn, the great lion.
I've seen some use this to argue that Radahn both agreed to the marriage and still fought Malenia in order to just have another war. This seems to contradict what we know of the character and is a bit of a stretch from this dialogue imo, even assuming Radahn did truly love Miquella, this does not support it.

Regarding powerscaling nonsense
Greatsword of Radahn (Light) said:
Greatswords of black steel wielded by Radahn in his youth. A pair of weapons decorated with a lion mane motif. These were in his possession immediately before his triumph over the stars—the swords of a lord who does not rely on physical strength and gravity alone.
Ash of War: Lightspeed Slash said:
Assume a luminous form and leap forward to deliver a downward slash at the speed of light. This attack will be followed up by an additional light attack. Charge to increase power of the skill and number of follow-up attacks.

So yeah even in his youth Radahn could swing a sword at the speed of light, this also drives home Light in Elden Ring in general being 'real light' which we never had anything implying before. There's another item implying the lightning should be grounds to be treated as real as well but I forget which one.


Conclusion: from a writing perspective, I initially hated this reveal, but after some time to sit with it, I think it was a very calculated choice made to emphasize why Miquella's so scary. Radahn is not just a fandom darling, he's also Miyazaki's favorite boss in the game, and the Festival was his idea (the other staff thought it sounded stupid). Taking the fan favorite character and making them the victim of some weird incest scheme is the ultimate way to drive home to the players how far gone Miquella is in his quest for godhood. Unless new information comes to light, I'm unable to reach an interpretation that places this as a joint Radahn/Miquella operation, and I'm not sure what the narrative implications of that would even mean for the base game storyline (it would be incomprehensible as far as I can tell).

 

OtherGalaxy

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Bayle's storyline might also clarify that Placidusax~=Godfrey now. Even if we assume Placidusax was the Storm Lord Godfrey defeated, it would have been Placidusax after losing three of his heads and being betrayed by some of the other Ancient Dragons. Too bad Placy had to become another mega-racist in order to get retroactive gains :wow
 

OtherGalaxy

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An alternative viewpoint
[21020000] Lord brother.
[21020100] I'm going to be a god.
[21020200] If we honour our part of the vow,
[21020300] promise me you'll be my consort.
[21020400] I'll make the world a gentler place.

Based on Miquella's dialogue in his memory, you could also argue that Radahn did agree to be his Consort, but changed his mind at some point and did not believe Miquella had upheld whatever their Vow was.
 
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