To Aru Majutsu No Index Feats/Discussion/Analysis Thread - One Othinus To Rule Them All

[Darth Zion]

Yeah except "world" in this context is more than just the universe

Lol, it's literally not. They are overloading a single universe with their power-

"Or the power could have exceeded the limits of the world itself and everything would have shattered like glass

Or are you thinking that the World here means all the phases put together? Then why did Coronzon even need a ceremony, Pax? No, it means only the single universe they are in.

 

[Darth Zion]

because there's nothing that actually supports the actual Vishnu being as strong as Othinus.

Except for being above an Archangel, lol.

Besides, he's one of the three figments of Bhraman which modern magicians consider to be another interpretation of Ein Sof.

 

[Paxton]

Except scaling above and Archangel, lol.

And why are they comparable to Othinus?

I thought we just established that the calamities don't scale to Othinus. Overloading one universe <<< destroying billions of universes.

 

[Paxton]

Lol, it's literally not. They are overloading a single universe with their power-

Or are you thinking that the World here means all the phases? Then why did Coronzon even need a ceremony, Pax? No, it means only the single universe they are in.

The quote compares Othinus and the calamities in terms of raw power/strength.

Calamities can do what Othinus did at the end of NT9, because the comparison doesn't work otherwise.

 

[Darth Zion]

And why are they comparable to Othinus?

Gosh, I'm not gonna go over this when you already know about Archangel scaling. Poor bait indeed...

The quote compares Othinus and the calamities in terms of raw power/strength

No, it doesn't. It just says that they can overload a single universe with their power to destroy it completely and Othinus understood exactly what it meant because she had also destroyed a universe before.

That's all it says. Nothing about being comparable in power, and I've already proven that they are infinitely weaker.

 

[Darth Zion]

You do know that Othinus began by destroying a single universe, and creating that black void. Then she kept on reacting universe replicas to torment Touma hundreds of billions of times without erasing the previous one, and then destroyed them all together with a single attack to create that black void once again.

The last attack is what puts her comfortably above the calamities. Destroying a hundred billion universes> destroying a single one.

 

[Paxton]

Gosh, I'm not gonna go over this when you already know about Archangel scaling.

Poor bait.

No, it doesn't. I've already proven that they are infinitely weaker.

And no, it literally says they overload a single universe with their power. Othinus understood exactly what it meant because she had also destroyed a universe before.

That's all it says. Nothing about being comparable in power.

As the lance was fired with tremendous force, the "happy world" was smashed to pieces as if space itself was being torn apart.

As a fragment of the world approached with the force of a raging wave, it took on the shape of a giant lance. The walls of all the phases were crushed, transformed into a swirl of deadly weapons resembling sharp shards of glass, and approached their pitiful target as if to swallow him whole.

Everything was ripped up.

The black labyrinth, which had used up all of its possibilities, showed itself

Or the power could have exceeded the limits of the
world itself and everything would have shattered like glass.
Having destroyed the world herself, Othinus knew that was no exaggeration.

The comparison is clearly referring to the end of NT9 when she threw Gungnir.

 

[Paxton]

You do know that Othinus began by destroying a single universe.

Then she kept on reacting universe replicas to torment Touma hundreds of billions of times without erasing the previous one, and then destroyed them all together with a single attack.

The last attack is what's above the calamities.

Then why are the calamities being directly compared with the "world shattering like glass" at the end of NT9?

She doesn't actually destroy the universe at the end of NT8. She adds a phase then, and she throws Gungnir later to destroy all of said phases.

..shattering the world like glass.

 

[Darth Zion]

The comparison is clearly referring to the end of NT9 when she threw Gungnir.

Nope, it's not. Again, context.

The world shattering like glass is not the point of comparison. Othinus never destroyed the world that way, it was the walls of all phases being destroyed and launched as weapons that was comparable to glass fragments. Besides, you haven't really addressed my point about calamities being finite in power whereas Othinus is infinite. In the end, these calamities were comparable to WW3 Gabriel- a figment of the original Phase Beings.

Anyways, I'm dropping this because we have reached a point where the arguments are moving around in a circle and repeating themselves.

 

[Astaro]

Don’t even know why you bother with him @Darth Zion If you’ve seen my past arguments with him, you’d know Pax loves regurgitating the same garbage no matter how many times he’s proven wrong and will even go as far as to ignore scans going against his headcanon and argue with a Japanese reader over what’s written in Japanese



Saying Gabriel or any of the things Marian summoned with Dainsleif that Touma has no problem erasing with IB as being able to kill Othinus is so beyond moronic, it’s not even worth debating

Best to do what me and @fiamma do and put him on ignore as he screams into the void

 

[Astaro]

Something I had typed up before fiamma posted:

If God and the angels predate the creation of any phase, where would they have resided?

If God and the angels are only biproducts of human beliefs via religion, then would the Pure World have no divine creator whatsoever? Does that line up with the goals of achieving Level 6 with understanding God's laws and Aleister's Thelema dictating that everyone has a piece of God inside them? Why would something as strange as a soul exist without a creator? Wouldn't it instead be something like all our actions and consciousness are determined by a random assortment of chemical reactions in the brain?

Because their not. We know Gabriel has existed since time immemorial.

 

[Churronzon]

Sounds pretty damn old, but I guess that rules out being older than Time.

 

[Darth Zion]

Don’t even know why you bother with him @Darth Zion

I'm giving him the benefit of doubt for now.

Sounds pretty damn old, but I guess that rules out being older than Time

On that topic, my theory is that phases retroactively change the world.

So Gabriel could have existed since the beginning of universe even if the concept of christianity and the phase involved was conceived by humans long after that.

 

[Paxton]

Don’t even know why you bother with him @Darth Zion If you’ve seen my past arguments with him, you’d know Pax loves regurgitating the same garbage no matter how many times he’s proven wrong and will even go as far as to ignore scans going against his headcanon and argue with a Japanese reader over what’s written in Japanese



Saying Gabriel or any of the things Marian summoned with Dainsleif that Touma has no problem erasing with IB as being able to kill Othinus is so beyond moronic, it’s not even worth debating

Best to do what me and @fiamma do and put him on ignore as he screams into the void

This means literally nothing as a point of comparison.

Touma negated Gungnir and IB can negate her phase manipulation just fine.

 

[Paxton]

You keep regurgitating that same shit when Touma being unable to erase Othinus with IB has nothing to do with power.

 

[Astaro]

This means literally nothing as a point of comparison.

Touma negated Gungnir and IB can negate her phase manipulation just fine.

^ Needed a billion years of experience to develop the capability to negate Othinus’ Gungnir to where it wouldn’t even be as effective against other people and still just barely managed it

And 0 feats of negating her powers over Phases outside of that

KEK

 

[Astaro]

Meanwhile. Touma can negate any Calamities summoned by Marian, both themselves and any of their attacks like Sutr’s sword

 

[Paxton]

^ Needed a billion years of experience to develop the capability to negate Othinus’ Gungnir to where it wouldn’t even be as effective against other people and still just barely managed it

And 0 feats of negating her powers over Phases outside of that

KEK

That's now how Imagine Breaker works. Wtf are you talking about?

He needed "experience" to be able to keep up with Othinus' movements and react to her attacks. That's how the volume went.

Negating supernatural changes to the world is the whole point of IB. That includes phase manipulation.
Othinus was outright going to use IB for this specific purpose.

 

[Paxton]

The irony of saying I spout off headcanon yet you then proceed to say some shit like "IB's negation gets stronger over time".

 

[Astaro]

That's now how Imagine Breaker works. Wtf are you talking about?

He needed "experience" to be able to keep up with Othinus' movements and react to her attacks.

Someone’s not reading

There was no way a normal high school boy could overcome it.

Even with a special power in his right hand, he would be smashed to pieces before he could use it.

However…

(Weren’t you listening, Othinus?)

Kamijou Touma thought to himself as he silently stared at the tip of the giant lance created by sacrificing an entire world.

(I’m not a special person, I might normally lose to a professional magician, and I’m nothing more than a high school student.)

In the instant of firing the lance, Othinus’s face twisted slightly.

She must have seen the look on the boy’s face.

Yes.

Kamijou Touma was smiling ever so slightly.

“But right now, I can overcome you!!!!”

The action he took was simple.

He tightly clenched his right fist and used his entire body weight to thrust it forward.

No one would have been able to keep up with its overwhelming speed. Their bodies would have been smashed to pieces before they could even hope to follow the tip of the lance with their eyes.

But the experience he had built up accurately guided his movements.

He had achieved a surefire attack that would work on Magic God Othinus and no one else.

Kamijou Touma’s right fist was sucked in toward the one point that no one else would have been able to reach.

His fist reached the sharp tip of Gungnir.

In that instant, all sound vanished from the world.

The kind world vanished and everything was dyed in black.

^ Needed to develop a surefire move just for stopping Gungnir to be able to stop it

Touma needed no such thing against any of the Calamities and wasn’t breaking fingers nulling them or their attacks

Try again, clown