Trigger-verse feats, lore & respect discussion

[Maddie]

Shigeto Koyama has implied that Trigger will continue to create more series in the spirit of Gurren Lagann!


In other news, I have started watching the Delicious in Dungeon anime! So far the feats are about the same level as the manga, although there are a few more feats here and there (such as the Red Dragon shattering stone with its tail).

What are the chances we'll ever get a Shin Gurenn Lagann in the vein of Shin Gojira, Ultraman, and Evangelion?

 

[Stocking Anarchy]

What are the chances we'll ever get a Shin Gurenn Lagann in the vein of Shin Gojira, Ultraman, and Evangelion?

I don't think that will happen IMO. Gurren Lagann's story is done and Imaishi, Nakashima and the others behind it seem pretty satisfied with how it ended (IIRC the Eva Rebuild was made because Anno wasn't happy with Eva's original ending).

What's more likely is we'll have more new series in the spirit of Gurren Lagann (such as KLK and Promare).

 

[Maddie]

Would it be more accurate to say the Anti-Spiral Dimension is just its own universe amongst infinite others, or is it hierarchically a higher plane of existence? If so is it just above the main universe or all other universes?

 

[OtherGalaxy]

iirc it exists between the 10th and 11th dimensions, so it would be “above” the universes/multiverses of the others. Might be misremembering though

 

[Maddie]

I think I have proof that the galaxies in the Anti-Spiral Universe are themselves universes. That's because according to Brian Greene's brane multiverse theory, brane-universes are created when two branes are collided and merged creating a new big bang, well what does the Anti-Spiral use to create his Infinity Big Bang Storm?

 

[Maddie]

@Stocking Anarchy

Not done with this entirely but made a cliffnotes-straight-to-the-point document about Simon's power

Gurenn Lagann Writeup

This is for whenever you want to debate Simon the Digger or the Anti-Spiral versus whatever matchup you want. It will be the most concise explanation of their power levels. There exists many cosmology and lore blogs but they are a bit all over the place: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Gurren...

docs.google.com

I actually think he might reach Megaversal+ if the galaxies are universes thing is true

 

[Maddie]

Also is there a pdf for 劇場版天元突破グレンラガン仕事魂 anywhere? This is the guide which supposedly says the galaxies are universes

Lastly, is there actual proof Simon transcends the scope of the Anti-Spiral Realm in the final clash?

 

[Stocking Anarchy]

@Stocking Anarchy

Not done with this entirely but made a cliffnotes-straight-to-the-point document about Simon's power

Gurenn Lagann Writeup

This is for whenever you want to debate Simon the Digger or the Anti-Spiral versus whatever matchup you want. It will be the most concise explanation of their power levels. There exists many cosmology and lore blogs but they are a bit all over the place: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Gurren...

docs.google.com

I actually think he might reach Megaversal+ if the galaxies are universes thing is true

Nice work ! It's always satsifying seeing other sites using the scans I found. One thing though, this...

""Yeah!" The members of the Gurren Lagann behind me nodded vigorously when I said that. Thank you, brother. I believe in you who believes in me. I believe in my friends who believes in myself. Simon held up his core drill to the heaven and a flash of light flashed across the sky. Innumerable appearances of Simon appeared in the sky, and they were the past, the present, and the future, every place, every time, and the innumerable selves that live in a world of infinite possibilities. There is no escaping wherever you go. In a closed infinite universe, various lives are repeated. In that universe of possibilities, Simon twisted the innumerable selves he had drilled into one, twisting them together into a giant drill, and before he realized that it was a huge drill, Simon wasn't there but Gurren Lagann. There stood Gurren Lagann, holding up the giga drill, "Let's go, buddy!""

I think refers to the Multiverse rather than the Anti-Spiral dimension (I'm pretty sure there are other references to the Anti-Spiral dimension being infinite; I'll have a look). However, when Simon and Team Super Galaxy Dai-Gurren are thrown into the Labyrinth, we see different versions of him, and the universes in the Labyrinth are represented as stars (which the Anti-Spiral watches over from their dimension, plus the branes thing could imply this anyway).

Also is there a pdf for 劇場版天元突破グレンラガン仕事魂 anywhere? This is the guide which supposedly says the galaxies are universes

Lastly, is there actual proof Simon transcends the scope of the Anti-Spiral Realm in the final clash?

I don't know if there's a PDF of Work Soul sorry (I have a physical edition, but it's nice to have a PDF too).

As for transcending the scope of the Anti-Spiral dimension in the final clash, Work Soul mentions that during their final class (between the two Super Giga Drills) they shake the Universe and go beyond time and space.

The friction between the spiral that calls for evolution and the reaction spiral that shuts off evolution shakes the Universe and transcends space and time.

I think I have proof that the galaxies in the Anti-Spiral Universe are themselves universes. That's because according to Brian Greene's brane multiverse theory, brane-universes are created when two branes are collided and merged creating a new big bang, well what does the Anti-Spiral use to create his Infinity Big Bang Storm?

I'd love to see more on what Nakashima meant by this (and the probability functions of the Super Spiral Space), but I can't find them anywhere. Apparently the DVD commentaries say more, but I don't know enough Japanese yet to translate them...

 

[Maddie]

Nice work ! It's always satsifying seeing other sites using the scans I found. One thing though, this...

I think refers to the Multiverse rather than the Anti-Spiral dimension (I'm pretty sure there are other references to the Anti-Spiral dimension being infinite; I'll have a look). However, when Simon and Team Super Galaxy Dai-Gurren are thrown into the Labyrinth, we see different versions of him, and the universes in the Labyrinth are represented as stars (which the Anti-Spiral watches over from their dimension, plus the branes thing could imply this anyway).

Thanks. If you can find proof it would be helpful

I don't know if there's a PDF of Work Soul sorry (I have a physical edition, but it's nice to have a PDF too).

Could you potentially skim the guidebook to pages you think might have this discussion about galaxies = universes and take photos? If you don't have anyhting to scan them I can myself with my phone.

As for transcending the scope of the Anti-Spiral dimension in the final clash, Work Soul mentions that during their final class (between the two Super Giga Drills) they shake the Universe and go beyond time and space.

Is there anything else, maybe about the Super Spiral Dimension? Any quotes about them transcending time, space, and the Anti-Spiral Universe would great

I'd love to see more on what Nakashima meant by this (and the probability functions of the Super Spiral Space), but I can't find them anywhere. Apparently the DVD commentaries say more, but I don't know enough Japanese yet to translate them...

Know any Japanese knowledgable users on any site that might know?

 

[Stocking Anarchy]

Time to reupload more of the scans from the dreaded Imgur purge. From Promare Hyper Fire Storyboard Book, the core of the Promare contains 'infinitely continuing triangular space.' This could either refer to the core being infinite or the fissure between worlds (in which the distance between universes is infinite). Either way it's impressive.

Spoiler

First box - Close to the stars in the frame
Second box - Passing through the triangular light that is connected like a synapse
Third box - Into the triangle in the centre of the star
Fourth box - Infinitely continuing triangular space
Fifth box - There are various things
Sixth box - In the triangular solid of thorns

(I will have to make another gif for this)

When Galo de Lion punches the Earth, it actually brings the Promare into our universes (or causes the two universes to overlap, even if just locally).

Spoiler

When I made this, several frames, the wireframe of the main star of Promare in the parallel universe

 

[Stocking Anarchy]

Thanks. If you can find proof it would be helpful



Could you potentially skim the guidebook to pages you think might have this discussion about galaxies = universes and take photos? If you don't have anyhting to scan them I can myself with my phone.



Is there anything else, maybe about the Super Spiral Dimension? Any quotes about them transcending time, space, and the Anti-Spiral Universe would great



Know any Japanese knowledgable users on any site that might know?

Sorry for the late reply, but the two references to galaxies being universes from Work Soul are the only references I know (again; I hear the Japanese DVD audio commentary had more, but I don't have that). Similarly with the Super Spiral Dimension (which is the most esoteric aspect of Gurren Lagann, and one of the most impressive; from what I've gathered, it's a space containing all possibilities (at least relating to a certain entity, such as Simon or Gurren Lagann or the other pilots) and by choosing and manifesting different possibitlities they can manifest different weapons (this is how LordGenome was there for the final battle too).

Also don't quote me on this because my source is Japanese Wikipedia (with a source of 'Nakashima said it somewhere'), but apparently the super spiral space creates (or solidifies) the universes in which different possible outcomes happen, which is how TTGL moves faster than light (eg. the possibility that Gurren Lagann takes a step forward exists, so whenever it moves forward it manifests and materialises the universes that leads to whichever actions are taken; so an extension of Observer Theory in which said possibilities are actively selected and manifested by the power of the Super Spiral Space).

I still need a bunch more evidence for this, but it's something I'll definately look a lot more into.

 

[Stocking Anarchy]

Time to repost more lost scans. Simon's power in the Galactic Spiral Abyss is akin to a universe being created in each of Simons cells.

Spoiler

"Convert to piercing drill bullets."
LordGenome head responds to Dayaka's orders.
Attenborough hits the fire button repeatedly.
A drill bullet was fired at an unknown enemy. A drill-type missile that pierces the armour of an enemy plane, rushes inside, and explodes. Explosions occur near enemy ships.
"All bullets hit, but the don't penetrate enemy armour. They bounce back drill bullets."
"What a tough enemy."
Without heeding Dayaka's wailing, Attenborough fires away.
"Even so, I'll shoot, I'll shoot, I'll shoot!"
The perforating drill bullets are fired in rapid succession. A rain of drills hit the enemy. Illuminated by the missiles exploding around them, the enemy's figure appeared on the monitor. It was writhing like howling. Attenborough's unreasonable barrage of shots paid off. Although it can not penetrate, the continuous attack and chain of drill bullets stopped the enemies special attack.
"Now, shake off the enemy!"
Simon pressed the lever.
Every cell in his body screamed. Within each cell a new universe is born. That energy would pour into Gurren Lagann using all his nerves. That was the image in his head.
The Super Galaxy Dai-Gurren sped up.
"It's unreasonable. Simon. My body doesn't last.
Leyte in the engine room stops. But he doesn't listen.
"We can't sink the ship right now."
A hot lump came up in the back of my throat.
It was blood. It may be that the weak part of the internal organs cannot withstand the internal pressure and is destroyed. Still, I couldn't let myself fall now.
However, the Nanda-class also increased its speed.
It is an aircraft specialized for combat in this ultra-high density space. In terms of mobility, it was superior to Super Galaxy Dai-Gurren.
Simon's desperate resistance was overtaken by the Nanda-class.
The tip of the Nanda-class running side by side split in two. It had sharp fangs. They are trying to chew up the bridge of the Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann.
The moment I tried to eat it, the Nanda-class was repelled.
A Super Spiral Field was deployed.
Simon summoned up his strength and increased his Spiral Power.

(The segment in particular which refers to universes being created in each of Simons cells)

Spoiler

(Kanji of the relevant text)

- シ モ ン が レ バ ー を 握 り し め た。
身体 中 の 細胞 が 悲鳴 を 上 げ て い た. 細胞 一 つ 一 つ の 中 で 新 し い 宇宙 が 誕生 す る. そ の エ ネ ル ギ ー を 全神 経 を 使 っ て グ レ ン ラ ガ ン に 注 ぎ 込 む. 言葉 に す る な ら ば そ う い う イ メ ー ジ だ っ た.
超 銀河 ダ イ グ レ ン が 加速 し た。 "

 

[Maddie]

Time to repost more lost scans. Simon's power in the Galactic Spiral Abyss is akin to a universe being created in each of Simons cells.

Spoiler

(The segment in particular which refers to universes being created in each of Simons cells)

Spoiler

(Kanji of the relevant text)

That's 36 trillion times universal

This is SGGL right?

When it says universe here do you think it means an entire quantum multiverse the universe actually is or just a single universe?

 

[Stocking Anarchy]

That's 36 trillion times universal

This is SGGL right?

When it says universe here do you think it means an entire quantum multiverse the universe actually is or just a single universe?

Yes that's Super Galaxy (Dai-Gurren to be exact, this happens in the Galactic Spiral Abyss).

I'm not sure sorry. It's possible that it's the former, but at the least it's the latter.

 

[Maddie]

I'm gonna assume the latter because TTGL is just on the level of multiple multiversal labyrinths as it stands. so making SGGL 36 trillion times universal is more sensible.

How many statements are there about transcending or surpassing the Anti-Spiral Dimension and/or space, time, and/or dimesnions?

 

[Stocking Anarchy]

I'm gonna assume the latter because TTGL is just on the level of multiple multiversal labyrinths as it stands. so making SGGL 36 trillion times universal is more sensible.

How many statements are there about transcending or surpassing the Anti-Spiral Dimension and/or space, time, and/or dimesnions?

There's a few. I'll see if I can get them all again...

The Anti-Spiral transcends time and space and controls the multiple dimensions.

Spoiler

(Relevant text)

Spoiler

Simon's greatest enemy is this universe itself The greatest, strongest, and most fearsome enemy that attempts to eradicate all creatures with spiral power. Even before Simon and his comrades, numerous Spiral warriors have challenged the Anti-Spiral and been buried. Its form has no discernible substance, has capability to lightly transcend time and space, controls the multiple dimensions. It is truly an entity that can be called "the universe itself".

(From Final Drill)

The Anti-Spiral is unbound by time or gravity.
(I'll need to find the full scan for this one again, but here's the relevant text...)

Spoiler

When the Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann throws, the Ashtanga-class fleet is destroyed. And, in front of the giant Nia, something like a small, black, irregular-shaped humanoid body floats. It's a stop unbounded by time and gravity.

(From Work Soul)

The Anti-Spiral Homeworld is made of an unknown substance that doesn't radiate or reflect, and exists in it's own space-time.

Spoiler

(Relevant text)

It is a strange room. It is not even a room. It is a place separated from continuous time and space. It is surrounded by walls, but I couldn't tell if it is matter, or if it is fixed time, or if it is something else entirely. It doesn't radiate anything. It doesn't reflect anything. It is not interfered with by any time in the universe. It is an independent time flowing only in this room.

Spoiler

(Relevant text)

Spoiler

Nia's scream is the only sound that echoed in the empty room. The Anti-spiral's homeworld. The space between the tenth and eleventh dimensions. An empty space-time on this planet, separated from both time and space. Nia, trapped there, is now about to be completely analyzed by the Anti-Spiral's original form. "No matter how much you examine my body, you will never be able to defeat them now. He will come, you can be sure of that." Nia said, desperately trying to regenerate. She brings back memories of the past and spins her body with them. "It's useless, irregular." But the Anti-Spiral instantly read the truth of the information.

(From the Gurren Lagann novelization - Volume 4)

Simon when escaping from the Labyrinth sees every version of himself, past, present and future. and merges with them.

Spoiler

(Relevant text)

Spoiler

""Yeah!"
The members of the Gurren Lagann behind me nodded vigorously when I said that. Thank you, brother. I believe in you who believes in me. I believe in my friends who believes in myself.
Simon held up his core drill to the heaven and a flash of light flashed across the sky. Countless appearances of Simon appeared in the sky, and they were the past, the present, and the future, every place, every time, and the innumerable selves that live in a world of infinite possibilities.
There is no escaping wherever you go. In a closed infinite universe, various lives are repeated. In that universe of possibilities, Simon twisted the countless selves he had drilled into one, twisting them together into a giant drill, and before he realized that it was a huge drill, Simon wasn't there but Gurren Lagann. There stood Gurren Lagann, holding up the giga drill, "Let's go, buddy!"

(Gurren Lagann novelization, volume 4)

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is a power greater than dimensions and time.

Spoiler

Nia enters the cockpit of Gurren Lagann with Simon.
Each Lagann merged into Gurren Lagann.
It was anger. It was sadness. It was compassion. It was every emotion one could think of.t was anger. It was sadness. It was compassion. It was every emotion one could think of.
The feelings that each of us had in our respective universes appeared in the form of a drill, breaking through the wall.
It was appearing in the form of two shapes and sizes, and they became one.
If you have no choice but to fight, do not hesitate.
We are not afraid to ask for power.
If there's a wall, we'll hit and break it, if there's no way, we'll make it with our own hands!
-No, more.
Breaks through cause, effect and fate, scream cry of life resounds in the galaxy!
-Still, more.
Engrave the feelings of a friend in this body, and turn infinite darkness into light!
-That's it.
Greater powerful than stars and galaxies.
Greater power than dimensions and time.

(From the Gurren Lagann novelization, volume 4)

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is formed from all of the emotions and experiences and possibilities of it's pilots (and all Gurren Laganns), past, present and future.

Spoiler

(Relevant text)

Spoiler

Feelings and wishes, remorse and hope, past and future, The ultimate evolution of Gurren Lagann created by swallowing everything about ourselves. The giant covered in green flames is the biggest thing a human or mediator has created.

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is seen from beyond dimensions.

Spoiler

(Relevant text)

Spoiler

The figure covered in flames and stepping on the galaxy has been witnessed beyond dimensions.

(From Final Drill)

 

[Stocking Anarchy]

Another important scan to save; a single Ashtanga dreadnaught exploding is enough to shake an entire universe.

Spoiler

Spoiler: Relevant text

"Super Spiral Field developed. prepare for the shockwave, a huge one will come."
At the same time Dayakka finished talking, a big explosion occurred.
It's a battleship collapse like a satellite.
After the big shockwave that shakes the isolated universe hit the Super Galaxy Dai-Gurren and the violent wave passed away, the enemy fleet was also wiped out.

 

[Stocking Anarchy]

Recovering another few scans of interest.

The Multiversal Radio Station is a mysterious radio station which can send and receive radio signals across the Multiverse, and appears in Yoko Portraits. Miss Yomoko (or a version of Miss Yomoko) has a show on this radio station where she answers peoples questions.

Spoiler

A mysterious radio station that can receive radio waves from the Multiverse. Our teacher Yomako will solve the difficult questions sent be listeners! What kind of questions will you receive?

This is the Multiverse Universe Broadcasting Station. It looks like you have a lot of questions today. I, Yomako-sensei, will answer everyone's questions in the "O-shi-e-te Yomako-sensei" corner. So what's the first question?

Yomako throws a piece of chalk at a version of Kamina (meaning that radio Yomako can throw chalk across parallel universes).

Spoiler

Mr. K from Jiha Village
A woman's buttocks are heavy...Wow! Chalk out of nowhere! This destructive power...it's dangerous if you hit it!

Ms. Yomako
...It's Yomako, not Yoko. Umm... Mr. K, not Camus. It's called "sexual harassment." Or rather, it's not a good question, yo! Shibakuwayo!! Good children. Sexual harassment is the worst. Remember it because it will be on the test ...Yes, who's next?

Viral (or a version of Viral in the Multiverse) says that even as an infinite Beastman, Leeron makes him afraid (infinite beastman likely refers to the fact that he's immortal).

Spoiler

Mr. V in exile
Recently, I often feel strange gazes. And if you look back, there's him. That twisted human man (?)! At that moment, my body, my instincts, appealed with all my strength to the danger. "Don't get too close to him."... I didn't know there was an existence that would inspire fear even in this infinite beastman. Hey woman, do something about him.

Ms Yomako
I'm being stalked by Marilon...It's not a bad guy and it doesn't hurt, so it's ok. Next.

 

[Stocking Anarchy]

In the OVA version (and likely the main show, as leylines are required to reach Luna Nova), Luna Nova exists in another dimension.

Spoiler

I forgot to mention that Luna Novis Academy manifests itself in a different dimension. In the normal wold, magic is slowly vanishing, but in the dimension they phase into, magic can be used freely. It makes me think that magic would have to be stowed away and used in a limited capacity.

 

[Stocking Anarchy]

Trigger will publish a booklet on the design notes for Chocolate Cadabra.