> People on the subreddit talking about how Gun God turned a TYPE into a waifu by shooting it so it can totally happen to ORT
That's.....not actually what happened, right?
Like the Type he interacts with who looks like a girl did that to herself for some reason or something, didn't she?
It would be if Alice would be able to release its last two stages cause Gold iirc is something that even Aoko with Magic wouldn't be able to mess with.he general ploy hierarchy seems to be Thames Troll > Flat Snark
Apparently so.IRC, they were inherited from Lumina, the First Magician?
Not really.We have anything better to compare them with than Aoko's feat or just Touko in general
She didn't win even with help but she has shit that can harm Servants and iirc a Trump Card that activates when she dies which would have killed everyone, Servants or not in the Clock Tower..so yeah.IIRC, was able to fight Faker in Case Files, if not win
Closest things to him are Elementals like TAs (which we don't have a baseline for cause Arc doesn't count) and Zhenren like Hinako .How do we rate Lugh Beowulf?
No.He also had defeated a DAA, we know who though
If we're discussing in the context of MR and considering . he was adamant that nothing short of Magic would have given him some fun, i'd say it's probably closer to EX.I guess his protection against magecraft would be the rank equivalent to at least A, if not EX? Or is it indeterminate as we know neither the rank of Aoko’s magecraft or Alice’s ploys?
You could take a look at shit like the foundation, system of the magecraft and shit like the quality and quantity of their respective Magical Circuits and maybe brute force a conclusion from that, however, i don't think it would be clear enough for the purposes of this hobby. Not to mention it would take a long fucking time.Or is it indeterminate as we know neither the rank of Aoko’s magecraft or Alice’s ploys? Like it feels off to suggest either are below Rin’s A ranked gems, but do we have the dots to connect? Is the age of her ploys like Thames Troll or Flat Snark enough for Alice at least?
If we go with my proposition and scale Beo to Hinako...the drop off wouldn't be that immensely high.How much weaker do we figure Sojyuro was fighting Lugh compared to his unseen peak in the mountain? Guess this would be dependent on how we rank Lugh given before his descent he's the strongest TM protagonist. Given that entails scaling above someone that can replicate and contend with the stats of Artoria/Herakles, that's not inconsidrable.
Think the narration told us something to the effect that the Thames Troll was unmatched as a ploy or something in chapter 10 when she summoned it? I forget the wording tbh. Just know it was worded in a way that had me go "so, stronger than Flat Snark?"It would be if Alice would be able to release its last two stages cause Gold iirc is something that even Aoko with Magic wouldn't be able to mess with.
As things sit, i don't see why that would be the case.
Flat Snark is definitely more versatile, was mostly just figuring raw power.Flat seems to be more versatile where it can pack a punch and also reality warp whilst Thames is a pain to summon in the first place + if it runs into something stronger than it , it's pretty much game over where as Flat might have a little more leeway if only for the fact that its a pain in the ass to kill in the first place.
So, vaguely able to distract Faker level I guess would be where they sit with the dots we have to connectNot really.
Harm is good enough given even something painfully average like Faker should be able to replicate the more notable endurance feats from similarly ranked Servants. C is pretty bog standard, and its where most of the feats of any note land for powerscaling oddly enough.She didn't win even with help but she has shit that can harm Servants
Right, isn't it supposed to be like the thing that ate Alba?and iirc a Trump Card that activates when she dies which would have killed everyone, Servants or not in the Clock Tower..so yeah.
I forget, but was this before or after she was amplified by the Tree?Closest things to him are Elementals like TAs (which we don't have a baseline for cause Arc doesn't count) and Zhenren like Hinako .
Hinako can fight multiple decent Servants and taking into consideration her abilities which whithout much thinking makes me think that she might be somewhere around 30% Arc give or take . That should be the baseline. Beo should fit this general tier .
We know where someone like Nrvnqsr Chaos falls in the new rankings anyway? Or has that not seen elaboration yet? He's vaguely comparable to Kouma, so that'd further fill in the blanks if nothing else.No.
Only thing we can infer is that it was someone probably on the higher tier since iirc the DAA in question had the Elder title, which means he/she was around in the AOG.
Makes sense.If we're discussing in the context of MR and considering . he was adamant that nothing short of Magic would have given him some fun, i'd say it's probably closer to EX.
At least his feat with the Thames Troll fills him out better than if he had just had magic energy chucked at him. MR doesn't exactly remove the kinetic energy imparted onto a mass in motion last I checked.The thing with Beo is that he has Regression which lets him recreate Mysteries from AOG which shoots him way above most of the things modern mages like Aoko and Alice could do even if the latter's shit is absolute nonsense that should be close in theory to that.
I'll note that Beo has superior Regression Quality than even Arc does.
Probably would be a headache to puzzle out right now, yeah.You could take a look at shit like the foundation, system of the magecraft and shit like the quality and quantity of their respective Magical Circuits and maybe brute force a conclusion from that, however, i don't think it would be clear enough for the purposes of this hobby. Not to mention it would take a long fucking time.
Aoko at least has accolades, but those only relate to her as a functional Magician. Not exactly anything we can really compare Lugh Beowulf too given he doesn't get his chance to flex against Blue.If we take a glance at those aspects, both Alice and Aoko don't seem to come short .
But their feats on the other hand are lacking .
Comes with having Ploys over several thousand years old.I would say that in terms of brute force, neither Alice or Aoko would sale but in terms of Mystery, Alice is clearly quite above .
This is probably the most sensible conclusion given where he was by the end effectively left him a standing corpse, but its impressive he still had the strength to absorb the impact of most of Lugh's remaining forward momentum (albeit, not at the level had he just decided to barrel through Soujyuro than swipe with his claws).If we go with my proposition and scale Beo to Hinako...the drop off wouldn't be that immensely high.
I would just say that the main difference between the Shizuki that just come from the mountain to the one that fought Beo was that the former would have been able to replicate that the latter did and still be able to last longer without yunno... crippling himself or to put it in simpler terms, do the damage that he did without harming himself.
I don't think so ?Think the narration told us something to the effect that the Thames Troll was unmatched as a ploy or something in chapter 10 when she summoned it? I forget the wording tbh. Just know it was worded in a way that had me go "so, stronger than Flat Snark?"
Sure but the question is if Thames would be able to contend with Flat's ice sphere in a context of raw strenght ?Flat Snark is definitely more versatile, was mostly just figuring raw power.
That and also Faker can copy Iskandar's Skills - one rank which i would imagine includes his Magic Resistance, so she would have E rank + AOG magecraft which is not bad.Harm is good enough given even something painfully average like Faker should be able to replicate the more notable endurance feats from similarly ranked Servants. C is pretty bog standard, and its where most of the feats of any note land for powerscaling oddly enough.
I don't remember, i'd have to go and check.Right, isn't it supposed to be like the thing that ate Alba?
Pre tree , post eating Lan Ling.I forget, but was this before or after she was amplified by the Tree?
I wouldn't use Aoko in this comparison because even if we have the quote , we stll don't have sufficient information about what her magic does, and we don't know if the other mechanics like the CF sniping Aoko cause "Magic is no no " were taken into account when figuring her chances against Arc.30% Arcueid for Beo seems dubious, wasn't that a fight Aoko w/Blue is only supposed to win like 30% of the time in the first place? Mind you, that's probably more to do with how she's using Blue given she's supposedly also the strongest Magician per mock fighting game accolade. Dubious, but if it's more akin to her overclocking with the highest risk of the Counter Force just crushing her rather than something she can do casually, I can see it I guess?
Seeing as he got completely replaced by Vlov ?We know where someone like Nrvnqsr Chaos falls in the new rankings anyway? Or has that not seen elaboration yet? He's vaguely comparable to Kouma, so that'd further fill in the blanks if nothing else.
If it's strong enough it just poofs it out from connecting in the first place.At least his feat with the Thames Troll fills him out better than if he had just had magic energy chucked at him. MR doesn't exactly remove the kinetic energy imparted onto a mass in motion last I checked.
Certainly is but i was thinking that after his little bout with Beo, he immediately got cut in half by Touko with an attack that he couldn't even react to .This is probably the most sensible conclusion given where he was by the end effectively left him a standing corpse, but its impressive he still had the strength to absorb the impact of most of Lugh's remaining forward momentum (albeit, not at the level had he just decided to barrel through Soujyuro than swipe with his claws).
Quote was “The Thames Troll was a special familiar even among fairy-tale monsters. While lacking the incredible reality-warping abilities of Flat Snark, it’s sheer mass, durability, and strength were second to none”I don't think so ?
IIRC, , it was something like " this thing is powerful , so there's a condition for summoning him, which is that he has to be summoned near a river". That was why Touko even attempted to fight Alice directly since she banked on the fact that Alice would have not been able to summon it.
I honestly don’t see why not in the context of the former quote.Sure but the question is if Thames would be able to contend with Flat's ice sphere in a context of raw strenght ?
I don't think so, not as Iron anyway.
The E feels kind of superfluous given I can’t think of what that negates what she can’t just endure/tankThat and also Faker can copy Iskandar's Skills - one rank which i would imagine includes his Magic Resistance, so she would have E rank + AOG magecraft which is not bad.
No worriesI don't remember, i'd have to go and check.
How sure are we that she’s a typical example rather than above the norm?Pre tree , post eating Lan Ling.
Clearly has something to do with giving a middle finger to Entropy in the moment if nothing else.I wouldn't use Aoko in this comparison because even if we have the quote , we stll don't have sufficient information about what her magic does, and we don't know if the other mechanics like the CF sniping Aoko cause "Magic is no no " were taken into account when figuring her chances against Arc.
Do we have the original quote? Because I know it was from some ancient dead spoiler forum or something with no direct citation I can find.Besides, there was another quote or a extension of the original quote that was " Arc is definetly stronger , but if Aoko uses something , Arc would not be able to kill her" which further complicates things.
Figured maybe he’d at least have allusion with that exposition on the new ranking system tbhSeeing as he got completely replaced by Vlov ?
Nope.
Thames was destroyed and countered rather than poofed thoughIf it's strong enough it just poofs it out from connecting in the first place.
Would tell me MR alone wasn’t the full deal here if nothing else.But Thanes did made transform into a gorilla to deal with Thames which leads me to conclude that he needed a little more brawn that he couldn't necesarily access into his humanoid form or lupine form , which could be an indirect feat for Thames.
Thought he had his back to Tokyo’s mercy kill attempt though?Certainly is but i was thinking that after his little bout with Beo, he immediately got cut in half by Touko with an attack that he couldn't even react to .
Feels like a stretch given it was acclimating to the city that caused him to weaken through gaining knowledge counter to the common sense of his mountain lifeHIs physical condition aside, it did seem like he was out of his skills, which made me thing that for the fight with Beo, he mananged to revert back to "Strongest TM protag" for the duration of the fight and after that he got back to his town boy condition.
Dunno, that just feels like a stretch when all’s said and done.If this has any merrit, the difference between strongest version of him and his current one is not power, but the ability to reach that level that he had in the first place.
the way they explained it isSo Mahoyo?
The general ploy hierarchy seems to be Thames Troll > Flat Snark. IIRC, they were inherited from Lumina, the First Magician? We have anything better to compare them with than Aoko's feat or just Touko in general (IIRC, was able to fight Faker in Case Files, if not win)?
How do we rate Lugh Beowulf? Obviously, he overcame the Thames Troll. He also had defeated a DAA, we know who though? I guess his protection against magecraft would be the rank equivalent to at least A, if not EX? Or is it indeterminate as we know neither the rank of Aoko’s magecraft or Alice’s ploys? Like it feels off to suggest either are below Rin’s A ranked gems, but do we have the dots to connect? Is the age of her ploys like Thames Troll or Flat Snark enough for Alice at least?
How much weaker do we figure Sojyuro was fighting Lugh compared to his unseen peak in the mountain? Guess this would be dependent on how we rank Lugh given before his descent he's the strongest TM protagonist. Given that entails scaling above someone that can replicate and contend with the stats of Artoria/Herakles, that's not inconsidrable.
Mahoyo feels both connected and isolated from other TM properties with how loose the specific connections are though
Also, I'm struggling to wrap my head around Aoko's feat in chapter 5, if only because we know her circuit capacity is dogshit in volume and average in quality. As we know from Rin vs Sakura, you're also further limited by the size of the valve through which you can release your power. Mind you, she could have a release valve out of proportion to her overall capacity, so that's fine, but how did she funnel mana on the level of Flat Snark through her limited plumbing without just kind of exploding (it only filled her circuit to a capacity that caused moderate disability to her central nervous system)? We know from the narration she leveraged at least 20% of the total energy both had available to eachother to begin with, then further overcame Flat Snark and surpassed it. Her bullshit rotation doesn't cover the fact she shoved Flat Snark's mana volume through something what is otherwise mediocre pipes in size. Or does this just mean mediocre has a high ceiling? Or maybe I should take the talk about her veins to mean she stupided herself like Shirou was doing with his spinal cord or Ilya does for her NP in Grand Order?
So the most definitive answer you can prob get is "Aozakis are just built different"
Quote was “The Thames Troll was a special familiar even among fairy-tale monsters. While lacking the incredible reality-warping abilities of Flat Snark, it’s sheer mass, durability, and strength were second to none”
Would suggest that Flat Snark’s only advantage, if it had one, is the reality warping.
Like i said, i have no problem with Thames being > Flat if it has access to all its shit.I honestly don’t see why not in the context of the former quote.
Especially given the exact quote discussing peak Thames Troll appears to include Aoko using Blue? Said even using her strongest ability she’d be screwed in World of Ploys 5.
E shouldn't be able to negate anything. Just weaken whatever its thrown at the wearer . If nothing else, it's additional layer of defense and it would work well in conjunction with AOG magecraft.The E feels kind of superfluous given I can’t think of what that negates what she can’t just endure/tank
It's hard to say without another person to compare her to but looking at her way of fighting, where she pretty much only uses her natural abilities as an Elemental, without any buff or specific item, the fact that as combat go , she's not particularly good at it and the fact that she got weakened after centuries of isolation, i don't think there's any reason as to why she'd be above the norm, at least not in the same way Arcuied is .How sure are we that she’s a typical example rather than above the norm?
Yes, but we still don't know to what extent she can give the middle finger and what specifically about that would give Arc trouble.Clearly has something to do with giving a middle finger to Entropy in the moment if nothing else.
What thing are you referring to specifically ? I don't think i understand the context ?Why wouldn’t that have been a thing? Shit, Grand Servants have been alluded to long before Grand Order with FSN, Dark Sakura’s even compared to one, just in the older terminology of counter guardian/pure heroic spirit.
I tried to find it but to no avail.Do we have the original quote? Because I know it was from some ancient dead spoiler forum or something with no direct citation I can find.
Nope, he's still a DAA and Roa is impressed with his magecraft works even after 800 years.Figured maybe he’d at least have allusion with that exposition on the new ranking system tbh
Yeah, so we can conclude that Thames either did pack enough magical power to make Beo bother or that the Mystery of Thames was enough to make him bother. Either way, a feat for Thames.Thames was destroyed and countered rather than poofed though
He did, but the accolades that he possesses really makes me think that it wouldn't be much of an issue , if at the moment he was indeed at that level.Thought he had his back to Tokyo’s mercy kill attempt though?
Sure, but i look at it like the potential is still there and as we know with other TM protags, you can be made to reach a temporary mind state where you can pull insane shit for a a limited period which in Shizuki's case would be reaching his previous strength levelsFeels like a stretch given it was acclimating to the city that caused him to weaken through gaining knowledge counter to the common sense of his mountain life
Eh maybe... i was just spitballing anyway.Dunno, that just feels like a stretch when all’s said and done.
So the Dioscuri get turned into actual, literal stars in the sky by the Mallet of Fortune because their wish (well, Castors wish) was to revert to their true selves. And these stars are explicitly still inside of the minute singularity
I have no idea if that can actually be used for anything meaningful but it's still kinda neat. :zaru
Worth having these in the opening post. If nothing else, they're probably the most comprehensive collection of the story on youtube.
In this regard, also probably worth downloading them on the off chance they vanish from youtube like Hollow Ataraxia did...
Jdownloader2 is how I've downloaded most shit off youtube. Hell, I have most of part 1 from the former already~Funny enough, I know the latter person on GameFAQS and even got into a spat with him once...
And I use the former for shit when it comes to my hyperlinks.
I'll definitely do so but it will be a bitch finding the ways to download the videos from Youtube(and all of the stories and events at that) and put them in a safe storage space.
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