Mafia General Discussion

Emil

Average Diabellstar Witch Enjoyer
V.I.P. Member
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works.
I asked my AI friend and he said this.


The Wild West
The Madhouse
The Madness Zone
Mafia Mayhem
Chaotic Mafia Zone
Unusual Treks
Arcane Adobe
The Dark Side
Non-Compliant Cruising
Non-Traditional SetUps
Unconventional Shenanigans
i like the wild west. most of us from US timeone too so checks out kek

@Aries look @Platinum has an account here already lol

its all coming together
 
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Magic

Resplendent
oh.. what type of mechanics?
disclaimer, this isn't to tell anyone else their hosting or whatever is wrong, im just letting you know how we do it/the games we want to play/etc

to give a more specific answer to this since i'm bored and so there's a lack of ambiguity:

let's start with deathproof or lynch immunities

lynches are town's greatest weapon. as long as they're on the same page, if they can find scum together and either hit a majority or generate the largest amount of votes and manage to lynch scum then, by day's end, they should get scum. by offering immunities to lynches you are actively punishing town for getting the right answer. "oh but they can just get him another way", but they shouldn't have to after they've collaborated in the first place to get the right answer. the basics of mafia is town working together to lynch the bad guys. successfully doing that but failing is punishing town for good play.

let's move onto to something related, hidden vote manipulation

key word is hidden. as long as it shows up in the host vote count it doesn't matter. town can work around that. town can see that there's shenanigans going on. the moment the host posts a vote count that isn't accurate then they're lying. the host is deceiving you and you can't trust the host. again the day lynch is town's greatest tool to finding scum and the one based on the most skill as it's solving on your own merits. if you think you're about to lynch a guy but suddenly they're not lynched because 10 votes is actually 8 votes and the other guy who had 7 votes is now at 9 votes then it feels defeating as you couldn't have accounted for that.

(this doesn't apply to things like executioner, governor, etc that are all submitted to the host and affect a singular day phase and doesn't require the host to deceive/lie to the players. even these roles should be limited to a singular shot and not have multiple ones in game as you shouldn't be fucking around with multiple day phases as it all comes back to the day lynch being town's greatest tool and way of solving.

again, in relation to lying to town, allowing mafia to post things into writeups/alter role flips/anything of that sort

the utility is way too high and again the players shouldn't expect the hosts to be lying to them. all these things are pretty easily seen as bastardized. death millers fall under the same line of thought. a jester is also rewarded for doing something that generally everyone is trying to avoid and isn't really too difficult to achieve in the first place.

mafia receiving additional night kills

this is just massive game swining. i talked with odo about it and he used it in a way that, as a lot of people and you yourself do, can remove two high value targets at the very start of the game. whether it be high value players or high valuable roles.

alternatively you can wait to see use it to swing mid game or you can use it to end the game one phase sooner than the expected lylo. as town generally operate with a rough idea of when the split is this can have massive consequences. twice the killing power, even if it's just one additional shot, can do a lot of damage.


then there's general balancing ideas. if mafia has a janitor you don't give town a gravedigger/reviver. why? because mafia uses the janitor to get a safe claim to fake(probably because they have claims themselves that generally won't be safe to claim like we had in odo's game, so the janitor gives the mafia team a safe fake while also throwing shade onto a lot of town power roles as it could always be a scum janitor claim). if town has a gravedigger or reviver then they just revive the janitored player and suddenly that is no longer applicable. if you want to keep those roles in the gam then you just say there's a restriction that they can't use it on a janitored player, but obviously you don't want to give it free will.

mafia in general need an ability to roleblock or rolecop town to find power roles. it isn't to make the same setup every game, there are variations you can put in, but those roles are generally crucial to their night actions in countering what town is doing or trying to do.

you don't give mafia/town the same role as then mafia will just get counterclaimed and either lose their guy first or lose their guy after they lose the other guy. generally try to avoiding a situation where town gets a far greater chance of being believed over the mafia claim(for instance in our game i disagree that odo made the miller the jailkeeper as it made it impossible to contest, which i know he wasn't going for but ya i think that was a mistake).

you don't want town to have too many cop like roles as 1) they're lame as fuck 2) they kind of ruin all deception and ability to deceive by mafia. a cop or cop esque role is standard. just don't put in a bunch of them that will decimate scum on their own(cop, gunsmith, lie detector, etc). these roles have no penalties to use and are just either a free scum catch or a free town confirm).

similar idea applies to track/watchers. if you put in a bunch of motion detecting roles then they'll generally fuck up scum by sheer ability to confirm what happened every night while also being able to catch mafia in lies if they try to fake usage while also finding killers/sk in late game scenarios. also, @CraigPelton disagrees, but watcher generally is a protective role in application. scum are going to avoid shooting someone they think will be watched. players ask for watcher on them to deter scum from using abilities or killing them.



I could go on really, but just so people stop saying we're too vague/that we're making it up on the fly.
 

Magic

Resplendent
"I want to mod a mafia game, what do I do?"

First of all you should probably have played a sufficient number of Mafia games to know what you're doing. If you try to mod without understanding how the game actually works then you're just being silly.

Let's just asusme you've done that. The next step is to pick a theme/gimmick for your game that you can design your setup around.

Let's say you're doing "Movie Mafia". Okay, that's the initial step but you need more than that to get started. In some cases the anti town factions will be obvious (E.g. Team Rocket in pokemon), but here you can have some more creative control. Want a Superhero mafia? Done. Morgan Freeman Movie Mafia? Done. The main thing when creating it is to make sure you get the numbers right.

A rough rule of thumb is that 10:3 is reasonably balanced for a single faction game, with a moderate level of town power. So in an 18 player game with 1 faction you can have around ~4 mafia. 3 very strong mafia, or 4 + a traitor with a lot of town power would also work, but sheer numbers might be two much. It's important to remember that 4 mafia are much harder to lynch and find than 3 -- it just needs one player in the mafia to play well for them to win. I'd use something like 10 town : 3 Mafia, 14 town: 4 Mafia, 17 town: 5 mafia and 20 town: 6 mafia, give or take as a rough guide for single faction games.

A lot depends on your town and mafia power, respectively. We'll get to that later on - but the above numbers are a reasonable place to start.

Hey, but I want two mafia factions? And a serial killer? And a cult!
Okay. Here's the thing, the more anti town factions you add the more luck based the game becomes. (Or at the very least, it requires different skills to play -- so bear that in mind).

In a game with an SK the game itself becomes more unpredictable - the serial killer shooting town every night basically means despite town playing and lynching well they can still lose, fairly easily. But if the SK shoots mafia then the game can end quickly despite the town sucking.

But, hey how is that any different than a vigilante? Well, it's different because the vigilante is part of the town - so him causing huge town damage/positives means he's playing poorly/well. But the SK is a wild card who just needs everyone dead, how generally shitty someone not aligned with you plays determing your chances of winning can be annoying.

Now, imagine it's two scum teams? Well it's amplified. Crosskills (when one scum faction shoots another) can swing the game dramatically (i.e. a town who had no chance of winning can suddenly become likely to win over 2 nightphases without lynching a single scum).

Okay, but I still want to use 2 factions

Okay, well whereas with a single faction game you probably want slightly under 25% (or 25% at max) here you want slightly more with a 2 faction game. In a 28 player game 2 scum factions of 4 seems ideal. (Yeah, that's just around 28%). I think any more than that makes it very hard for town to win. It's better to give them some sort of limited crosskill immunity (to at least one or two) than have 5 on each team and depend on crosskills to win)

Obviously then the more factions you add the weirder and harder to predict things become.

Okay, I've done that. Now I want a town cop, watcher, tracker, doctor, bodyguard, vigilante, masons, gunsmith, hider, commuter, beloved princess and scum to have a godfather, roleblocker, rolecop and framer? Is that good?
r u srs. Okay, the first thing is that more power roles aren't always better. Playing a PR is fun, sure but it's almost better if it's not something that happens all the time. Don't be afraid to use vanilla townies or mafia goons. Surely you can substitute it for weak roles, but really a vanilla townie role shouldn't mean you don't want to play the game. If you need a role to play then perhaps you're missing the point? The game, should if possible, be the thing the game is focused on.

Too many info roles means the game becomes dull, with day phases shorter than night phases consistently.

If you ARE going to give everyone a role make sure of a few things
*That all the scum roles aren't all "obvious" scum roles to counter a cop. Don't be afraid to mix up roles, give scum things that look town, town things that look scum. I mean, okay. Giving scum 2 full vigilantes is taking the piss but giving scum an extra kill isn't the end of the world as long as you balance for it.
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Similarly roles like rolecop can be useful to town, despite being traditionally scum roles.

The last thing you want is town being far behind and being able to confirm 4 or 5 or 6 people with a massclaim, it smacks of poorly thought out game design.

Okay, so I'm ready?
Uh, not quite. When you're creating your roles you need to figure out how they work with other roles?

So, what result does your rolecop get on your SK? Is that a desirable outcome?
How does your roleblocker work with another roleblocker and they target each other?
Does a gunsmith get a guilty on your serial killer? (Traditionally, no)

You should go through your roles and see if there are any problematic interactions. You can generally tell when something won't work very quickly. Either modify the roles or change it, or drop something -- but don't leave it in. Sure your rolecop probably won't target your SK - but it might? And then it's your fault, and you suck.


So, that role doesn't work as it doesn't match the flavour
Shut the fuck up, seriously. Flavour is fine. Flavour is good. Everyone likes an enjoyable game. You know what's not good? Making your game predictable and obvious. Okay, so what if X doesn't make sense as a rolecop? Not every role needs to 100% correlate with flavour. If it does mafia will have a very hard time justifying their claims. Yes, Die Hard can be a vigilante in movie mafia but not every role needs to be 100% "oh, that's so obvious". That just leads to trouble as a mod and for your scum factions.

Oh, and yes. Use strong safeclaims - or at least mix and match them so mafia aren't left with minor characters/having to forge ahead by themselves.


Things you probably shouldn't do but might anyway!
You don't want to give away game relevant information in your scene.
You don't want to tell someone when they're roleblocked. Just tell them they didn't obtain results. What if it was an ascetic? What if it was some other weird role? Why give your players more information on the roles in the game.
You don't want to interact/chat with the players in your game -- you might let something slip if you post in thread.
If someone calls you a bad mod, let it go and respond post game -- don't respond to them now. It confirms what they're saying has some basis in the current game.


^we also have this from another user that was a respected host on our site(FARADAY).
 

Poyser

Moderator
Moderator
On the subject of punishing town for good play, things like mafia vengeful/PGO fall under this as well

A mafia PGO isn’t the end of the world but then you’d avoid also giving them a redirector so they can use it for a free extra kill etc

Ditto with allowing mafia gravediggers to dig up killing roles
 

Ratchet

Resplendent
Advisor
An anime recomendation exchange deal waifubro

kzo8VV6.png


Btw I think I'm going to watch The Melancholy of Haruhi after I finish this one.
I was actually going to offer watchng one, actually.

I receive: You signing up (as a player or as a sub) to my Fate game here
You receive: My commitment to have watched Quintuplets S1 by end of June
 
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