Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 1: OBD 2027 prologue edition

[Xhominid The Apex]

The point is that Kamachi knows about power levels, and very well, even too well, he's so well versed in all that it's sometimes hard for the average person to understand what he's thinking. It's like the average person trying to figure out what a scientist is talking about. You just don't have enough knowledge to understand what he's talking about. And that's totally fucked up. Here's an example.

Yeah that's the best way you can say that.
The man is like a VS. Debator more than a story-teller and it shows badly in terms of actually trying to explain how it's happening or how it leads into that situation at all. It doesn't help that his details are focused wrong and thus it really comes off too heavy-handed and thus nothing clicks.
And I say this as someone who goes out of his way for VS. Debates and usually reads things 2-3 times in a row.

... You do know that doesn't endear anyone to Kamachi's writing right? That sounds like a Suggs level retort.

He's presenting Kamachi's writing flaws and has done it before. It's the same deal with me as I've also pointed out Nasu's biggest set of flaws is that he will invent a new wording or phrase out of his ass and only explain it later(Sometimes he explains it in the same scene he presents it but for those who don't have that backing... it can through them for a loop). Examples are:

Textures
X-Planetary Class
Human Order
12 Conceptual Pillars
Quantum Time Lock

I can easily have all day pointing out shit like this and people would agree. But if I was to instead put it like this:

Layered Worlds
Power Levels for Beings outside of the scope of Man
How Humans see Reality
The Greek Gods in their True Bodies
A Checkpoint at a certain point in Time

It suddenly makes more sense doesn't it

 

[Flowering Knight]

Bro I'm getting flashbacks to that one Rick and Morty copypasta

 

[Dead Lock]

Who's Dane?

Dane Whitman from Marvel comics.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Okay, then that's Kamachi's fault. Also, Kamachi's writing isn't so obtuse. He does explain shit. You're just purposely making it obtuse as hell.

No, I'm looking through your feats thread and it's an issue of Kamachi's

The problem was the precariousness of the situation.

It was imperative that he avoided the label, "someone with only manga on his bookshelf". Of course, his thought processes were abnormal. An ordinary person would disregard unscientific claims like “to understand a person, one must simply examine their bookshelf.”

It was because Kamijou Touma had lost his memory.

Naturally, everything was not forgotten. He still knew how to read traffic lights and operate his cell phone. He lost his “memories”; “knowledge” was intact.

Though he knew how to use a cell phone, his brain would wonder “Eh? Where I did I put my phone?” or “Hold on, since when did I have a phone?”

His apparent "knowledge" was like a dictionary.

For example, one might know that “apples” were the “fruit of the Rosaceous deciduous tree which bloom in spring with a round shape.” But, to decide if it were tasty, one had to eat an apple. His brain lacked the diary-like memory of “I ate a delicious apple on month X, day Y.”

He was told that the reason was because the “experience memory” (memories) part of his brain, rather than the “meaningful memory” (information) part, was destroyed. However, this was not the main issue.

Kamijou Touma wanted to know what sort of person he was before he "lost his memory"; even if it meant that he had to adhere to some baseless claim like “one must simply examine their bookshelf.” But, it did not mean that Kamijou’s expression was that of pain.

After all, Kamijou was not alone in the world and was not thrown into some unknown environment. He had food, clothes and friends he could call companions.

Do we need this long-winded explanation of how Touma lost his memory? Really? Especially the "which parts are affected and not" deal? Shirou lost his memory when the Fuyuki Fire happened and we just got "He lost his memory of what happened before", we didn't get that he still new certain stuff or what part of his brain still works.

 

[Mr.OMG]

Okay, then that's Kamachi's fault. Also, Kamachi's writing isn't so obtuse. He does explain shit. You're just purposely making it obtuse as hell.

It is not Kamachi's fault, Kabbala is so complex that its individual elements are more complex than all the Cthulhu Mythos put together, he cannot just explain Kabbala, otherwise Kamachi would spend thousands and thousands of pages explaining the terms alone. So the best he can do is to give sketchy explanations or references for those in the know.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

It is not Kamachi's fault, Kabbala is so complex that its individual elements are more complex than all the Cthulhu Mythos put together, he cannot just explain Kabbala, otherwise Kamachi would spend thousands and thousands of pages explaining the terms alone. So the best he can do is to give sketchy explanations or references for those in the know.

Then I'm not even sure why he tried that? Not even the fuckers who write SMT literally try shit like that and they include shit from even more ridiculous myths and religions.

Just simplify it to your series or just don't bother man.

 

[Cryso Agori]

No, I'm looking through your feats thread and it's an issue of Kamachi's


Do we need this long-winded explanation of how Touma lost his memory? Really? Especially the "which parts are affected and not" deal? Shirou lost his memory when the Fuyuki Fire happened and we just got "He lost his memory of what happened before", we didn't get that he still new certain stuff or what part of his brain still works.

I mean I agree that it's long-winded but it isn't as inunderstandable as that copypasta OMG just posted.

It is not Kamachi's fault, Kabbala is so complex that its individual elements are more complex than all the Cthulhu Mythos put together, he cannot just explain Kabbala, otherwise Kamachi would spend thousands and thousands of pages explaining the terms alone. So the best he can do is to give sketchy explanations or references for those in the know.

Is it really? I mean you don't really need to understand the real-life Kabbalah to understand what Kamachi means when he says how it dictates how high a level a magician can go. Stiyl in Volume 2 explained that adequately.

 

[Cryso Agori]

Then I'm not even sure why he tried that? Not even the fuckers who write SMT literally try shit like that and they include shit from even more ridiculous myths and religions.

Just simplify it to your series or just don't bother man.

This I can actually explain.

This is the afterword of volume 1. Kamachi literally states that Toaru came out of personal interest than something to actually market.

Nice to meet you. This is Kamachi Kazuma.

Right about now, I’m starting to feel incredibly embarrassed about referring to myself with a penname. To people who have done things online: it’s a bit like revealing your handle to the world for the first time.

Come to think of it, this book got its start online.

The magicians in RPGs and such that can create balls of fire or revive the dead at the cost of some MP are quite convenient, because the term “magic” lets them do whatever they want. But (for the sake of argument) let’s assume magic actually existed. What kinds of people used magic throughout history? What kinds of rules exist behind the term "magic"? This all started when I typed “magician” and “actually exist” into a search engine in an attempt to answer those questions.

It came up with things like “how to control a black cat with silver vine powder” and “voodoo witch doctors used fugu poison to create zombies that had a state of apparent death”. I got interested when I realized that the workings of the occult seemed an awful lot like science.

Dengeki Bunko’s light novels treat magic like it's normal, so I thought that a novel that went deeper into the idea of magic might be a new idea.


…Really, this is a work that was more about my personal interest rather than an idea marketed to a certain type of reader (that is, I didn’t try to come up with some catchy topic). My bowed head will never be raised when in front of my editor Miki-san and my illustrator Haimura Kiyotaka-san who both stuck with me on this. I am truly thankful.

And to you readers who picked this book up, I am very grateful that you stuck with my long, drawn-out writing style for this long.


I hope that Kamijou Touma and Index will live just a little longer in your hearts.

And I pray that I will get to make a 2nd volume.

For today, I lay down my pen.


…It’s actually still December 26, 2003.

-Kamachi Kazuma

 

[Dead Lock]

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/foru...and-qrow-vs-sinister-six-and-savage--2010254/

Holy shit. You're gonna be finding bits and pieces of team rwby for days by the time this is over.

Which won't be very long.

 

[Mr.OMG]

Yeah that's the best way you can say that.
The man is like a VS. Debator more than a story-teller and it shows badly in terms of actually trying to explain how it's happening or how it leads into that situation at all. It doesn't help that his details are focused wrong and thus it really comes off too heavy-handed and thus nothing clicks.
And I say this as someone who goes out of his way for VS. Debates and usually reads things 2-3 times in a row.

As strange as it may sound, he is a writer, not a Vs debator. Otherwise ToAru would have turned into a graphomaniac long ago, Kamachi puts plot above all else, if ToAru were just a "book for the sake of hax", that is, like the Saggs-verse, then I wouldn't read it.

Then I'm not even sure why he tried that? Not even the fuckers who write SMT literally try shit like that and they include shit from even more ridiculous myths and religions.

Just simplify it to your series or just don't bother man.

Well he simplifies it, as I said he gives scrappy explanations for ordinary readers and that is enough, ordinary people don't care about Kabbalah and only we Vs Debator are looking for more detailed explanations that he can't give.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

I mean I agree that it's long-winded but it isn't as inunderstandable as that copypasta OMG just posted.

Again, that wasn't the point I was going on with and I primarily ignored that myself for the sake of posterity.
I'm just saying that I have always seen Kamachi's issue is that he can be... long winded at times for the wrong reasons and really fail to clarify a scene that should be clarified on the spot.
Thus you end up with massive confusion or wasting the readers' time when you can easily go explore something else. Again, here's another example here you put up for the latter problem.

It was a windowless room.

There were no doors, stairs, lifts, or corridors. As a part of the building, the room had no functionality. There was no way to enter the building except via a Level 4 esper’s teleportation ability. It could have been said to be the most impenetrable stronghold.

Like does Kamachi actually explain before or after this what is REALLY the major difference between a Level 3 Teleporting Esper or a Level 4 Teleporting Esper in this scene? Because otherwise, it feels weird of why a Level 4 or 5 Teleporting Esper can enter... but not a Level 3 or theoretically a Number 2 Esper?

This isn't me shitting on Kamachi by any means I have heard he does clarify it somewhat later on with a battle between 2 of them but I want to ask because again, I feel other authors would make this difference very apparent for this scene to be actually effective.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/foru...and-qrow-vs-sinister-six-and-savage--2010254/

Holy shit. You're gonna be finding bits and pieces of team rwby for days by the time this is over.

Which won't be very long.

This is a fucking funeral

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Gremmy (Bleach) runs a Nasuverse gauntlet

Which one can he defeat? (no particular order) Satsuki Kurogiri Archer Fujino Saber Shiki Rider Medusa Gorgon Tohno Shiki Tamamo 3 tails Archer Arjuna Alcides Saber Artoria Composite Gilgamesh Kazuradrop Tiamat Saber Venus Beast Kiara God Arjuna Morgan Remake Arcueid Shakyamuni Goetia R1...

forums.spacebattles.com

• Satsuki Kurogiri
• Archer Fujino
• Saber Shiki
• Rider Medusa
• Gorgon
• Tohno Shiki
• Tamamo 3 tails
• Archer Arjuna
• Alcides
• Saber Artoria
• Composite Gilgamesh
• Kazuradrop
• Tiamat
• Saber Venus
• Beast Kiara
• God Arjuna
• Morgan
• Remake Arcueid
• Shakyamuni
• Goetia

I'll be that rare guy and admit... I actually like Gremmy... but I'll also be that typical guy and admit Gremmy gets his ass murdered by everyone here because he's that shit with his powers...
Even Satsuki and Fujino would kill him.

 

[Dead Lock]

This is a fucking funeral

Good luck finding all their limbs.

 

[Masterblack06]

Can anyone in HST survive Antinomy's Delta Accel Synchro?

In episode 144 of Yu-Gi-Oh 5D's, Antinomy dueled Yusei in space and energy exuded from his Delta Accel Synchro caused a nearby star to explode and undergo a supernova. Location: Earth Knowledge: Everyone in Naruto, Bleach and One Piece know what Antinomy is doing, so they're powered up to...

forums.spacebattles.com

HST gets absolutely fucking clapped


Play card games on motorcycles so hard you collapse a star, cause a supernova, and then make it turn into a black hole

 

[Paxton]

Again, that wasn't the point I was going on with and I primarily ignored that myself for the sake of posterity.
I'm just saying that I have always seen Kamachi's issue is that he can be... long winded at times for the wrong reasons and really fail to clarify a scene that should be clarified on the spot.
Thus you end up with massive confusion or wasting the readers' time when you can easily go explore something else. Again, here's another example here you put up for the latter problem.



Like does Kamachi actually explain before or after this what is REALLY the major difference between a Level 3 Teleporting Esper or a Level 4 Teleporting Esper in this scene? Because otherwise, it feels weird of why a Level 4 or 5 Teleporting Esper can enter... but not a Level 3 or theoretically a Number 2 Esper?

This isn't me shitting on Kamachi by any means I have heard he does clarify it somewhat later on with a battle between 2 of them but I want to ask because again, I feel other authors would make this difference very apparent for this scene to be actually effective.

The Windowless Building part is probably due to the weird properties of the space inside (non-Euclidean geometry and all that), and a level 2-3 Esper wouldn't be able to perform the necessary calculations to get inside without telefragging themselves and at that level I don't even think they can do that in general, let alone get into the Windowless Building specifically where the space is all "funky", for lack of a better word.

 

[Claudio Swiss]

Death Battle Thor vs Vegeta, legit or BS - Battles - Comic Vine

The Dragon Ball fans are not too happy, Superman clapped Goku's cheeks twice and now Thor gave Vegeta the hands

comicvine.gamespot.com

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Death Battle Thor vs Vegeta, legit or BS - Battles - Comic Vine

The Dragon Ball fans are not too happy, Superman clapped Goku's cheeks twice and now Thor gave Vegeta the hands

comicvine.gamespot.com

#VEGETASWEEP

 

[Paxton]

#VEGETASWEEP

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

The Windowless Building part is probably due to the weird properties of the space inside (non-Euclidean geometry and all that), and a level 2-3 Esper wouldn't be able to perform the necessary calculations to get inside without telefragging themselves/at that level I don't even think they can do that in general, let alone get into the Windowless Building where the space is all "funky", for lack of a better word.

Yeah I can get that but I'm saying was it explained in that page of where they explained it? Because it would feel weird to put that there and yet not explain the difference right there by having a character explain it.
It's like how in Fate/Stay Night, Shirou and Rin explicitly talk about Noble Phantasms only for Shirou to immediately say how strong they are even in comparison of a Servant's strength of the same Rank and Rin tells him he's right and go for a demonstration.

Like if it was explained elsewhere, it would feel weird when the timing itself would benefit then and there, get what I mean?