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Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 1: OBD 2027 prologue edition

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Claudio Swiss

Luminous
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My nigga Jinnobi coming in with that truly S-tier logic. :mjlol His debating skills are like that of a 5-D chess master, truly. I wonder why no one else ever thought to bring up how the comic book authors would write it for a versus debate? Oh wait...:russ
Anyone knows damn well a blood lusted Flash at his peak folds Clark like he owes him money :trinny
 
I kinda have to just put this in here to be a nagging arse, but I hate when anime does the whole "uguhh" shit that Rin does in that scene before Archer slaps her away because it kinda breaks the this is how fast things are happening mood, because you wouldn't have the time to say "impossible", "So fast" or just random noises of shock/surprise because it's just gonna invite that one asshole who goes "well they can't be hypersonic because you wouldn't be able to say that in that timeframe".

:bruh Anime was a mistake.

It's just one of those deals that usually happens with the medium itself. It's supposed to show off, quite frankly, that even to these superhumans, if a Servant wants to end a fight/end you... they absolutely can and will.
Of course yes, it doesn't make any sense in the same fashion that in Bleach, you have characters surprised they get blitzed in speed... only to suddenly react to them like normal and have no issues ever again which makes you wonder why they was surprised over the speed in the first place?
 

Myralice

Apparently I'm a problem.
It's just one of those deals that usually happens with the medium itself. It's supposed to show off, quite frankly, that even to these superhumans, if a Servant wants to end a fight/end you... they absolutely can and will.
Of course yes, it doesn't make any sense in the same fashion that in Bleach, you have characters surprised they get blitzed in speed... only to suddenly react to them like normal and have no issues ever again which makes you wonder why they was surprised over the speed in the first place?
What we need is for someone to make a compilation of anime characters talking at x200 speed to really give us that immersion.
Imagine... Naruto, but everyone talks at the same speed they're fighting.
:hestonpls
 

Derpmaster9000

Balor Béimnech
V.I.P. Member
Ey yo @OtherGalaxy, Quora be up to those mismatches again. :mjlol
 
What we need is for someone to make a compilation of anime characters talking at x200 speed to really give us that immersion.
Imagine... Naruto, but everyone talks at the same speed they're fighting.
:hestonpls

Oh yeah, that fully reminds me of that bullshit of Gaara being able to do a substitution jutsu during the interim Lee is kicking him for the Primary Lotus(And thus in midair) and Guy closed his eyes to pray and yet fucking NO ONE noticed but Kakashi... somehow.
Like fucking how? :hestonpls
 

TrueG 37

Acclaimed
Oh yeah, that fully reminds me of that bullshit of Gaara being able to do a substitution jutsu during the interim Lee is kicking him for the Primary Lotus(And thus in midair) and Guy closed his eyes to pray and yet fucking NO ONE noticed but Kakashi... somehow.
Like fucking how? :hestonpls
Gaara was just that good supposedly, ignore the other Jonin and shit who should have noticed :mjlol. Kishi will be damned before he let's Lee take any sort of W. In hindsight I like to think that Kakashi and Lee's shared bond of having a trash win-loss ratio allowed Kakashi to see incoming L's.
 

Myralice

Apparently I'm a problem.
Between this and the rumbling vs Tamriel, the phrase Eren eats shit is the perfect description of what the next two weeks will be like.

:russ
 

Derpmaster9000

Balor Béimnech
V.I.P. Member
Oh shit! Here comes round two of Unicron punting the football, with an added spice of overrated spaceman to go with it. :mjlol
 

:hestonpls

It truly is amazing they have no goddamned idea of how Dark Schneider works.
In order to even get at him, you have to get past his many... MANY Dispel Bounds as otherwise, they have some level of Anti-something against various BS hax abilities so you have to go by them at physical force.
"Well then, all I can do is just launch a massive attack and take them all out in one go then!" NOPE! Due to how Dispel Bound works, you EXPLICITLY must destroy them ONE AT A TIME, No Overkill will ever allow you to bypass each barrier. Oh yeah, they also regenerate almost as fast as you can destroy them, requiring FTL levels of quickness to easily destroy them all before you end up in a stalemate.
4so2ILt.jpeg


And finally... FINALLY you get to his "Eternal Atoms" and you cannot destroy them just physically, not just mentally, not just spiritually, you must destroy them in all 3 spaces... AT ONCE!

There's a reason why the Bastard!!! series was synonymous with pure bullshit and still is today considering someone in that verse killed DS(temporarily) by being able to do all of that... and no one in the To Aru universe is doing that considering how weak they are durability wise and how extremely limited they are in scope and how their abilities work.

EDIT: Taking this from the TvTropes page:
Nigh-Invulnerable: You need some serious firepower to take down even mid-ranked Angels/Devils. Then there's the title character himself, who took this trope and ran a triathlon with it. His primary means of defense seems to be a shield spell called "Dispel Bound", which produces a number of shields to block any attack aimed at him. Each shield can take up to the force of a nuclear blast before breaking. And they can only be targeted one at a time. And they auto-regen. And he can repair them manually at positively absurd speeds. And in the unlikely event that you manage to get through that, you have to deal with his durability which allows him to take attacks that can destroy galaxies. And should you somehow manage to pierce these defenses, he possesses obscenely powerful healing abilities (of the sort that makes Wolverine, and probably Deadpool, look like girl scouts) and finally, he still can't be killed unless you destroy his body, spirit and soul in three different dimensions at the same time. What's truly scary is that there are people powerful enough to accomplish this (such as the Dragon Knight that killed him in the Back Story).
 
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Okay this was ridiculous at first with Demon Slayer vs. Fate but now this is beginning to be seriously pathetic in doing this shit with Naruto vs. Demon Slayer.
Like they downplay the shit out of UBW and HF despite UFOTable working on the same damn series as Demon Slayer... but they wank it to this extent? Especially when the feats they love using are pretty damn blah, all things considered?
 

OtherGalaxy

ยสี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่ สี่สี
V.I.P. Member
Ey yo @OtherGalaxy, Quora be up to those mismatches again. :mjlol

Oh shit! Here comes round two of Unicron punting the football, with an added spice of overrated spaceman to go with it. :mjlol
bro I swear Unicron has to be the most misunderstood mainstream cosmic character ever. People really know fuck all about transformers feats :skully
 

"Muh Marrow can stop Raiden with his Semblance"
Raiden fucking punks his ass before he moves a single muscle. And considering how dumb he is in canon, he won't even use it until he's long dead.


It's not the blade. Aura's a forcefield not a material. It should hold up against the blade. Problem is the strength and speed behind the blade.

This is so wrong that it hurts and I shouldn't even have to say why that is...
EDIT: If someone tries to be smart, I know he said "The Problem is the Strength and Speed behind it", the problem is that it's nonsense when anything CAN harm Aura even if it's in a resting shape as long as it's sharp. That's why characters never try and tank shit to the face.
 
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OtherGalaxy

ยสี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่ สี่สี
V.I.P. Member
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/unicron-vs-justice-league-2094567/

this is weird because aside from the incredibly goofy matchup there's one poster who mangled his explanation with all kinds of jargon like 'quantaverse' and other shit
there is so much shit here that doesn't make sense
I'm not gonna go through it all because it's long but just the stuff that's actually relevant and blatantly wrong
He has consumed 23 - 27%of all of creation in the new era. When I mean all of creation, I mean every single comic multiverse scattered throughout the Omniverse. The Omniverse in TFWiki definition says: " dimensional travelers will find themselves in the Omniverse, which consists of every possible reality imaginable. " Marvel, IDW, Unicron Trilogy, DC (They were going to mention Unicron's presence but they rebooted) , Dreamwave, etc confirms a mysterious being who has consumed all of creation before - which is True Unicron. His brother Primus, will take kingship of the Omniversal Matrix after he is done defeating True Unicron (which he fails to do as he fears for the lives of other beings in creation due to their collateral destruction - Marvel comics).
There's actually very little to suggest Unicron's reach extends beyond the main transformers cosmology, and the things that do suggest it aren't really mentioned here. Unicron in Marvel is probably multiversal anyways since that's where transformers' concept of branch universes actually originates, but him destroying the Old Realms meaning=all of old Marvel is vague as fuck at BEST and blatantly contradicted by everything else Marvel has ever published at worst. You can't scale Unicron very well to Marvel basically (but you don't need to since his TF feats are more than enough to solo most series). The 22% of reality quote was specifically referring to Transformers realities anyways, and it was known realities he'd eaten.

Also IDW has never concretely talked about cosmic Unicron being involved. Some writers like James Roberts even deliberately wanted it ambiguous whether Unicron and Primus were real in the setting. And when IDW did tackle Unicron and Primus, both were in completely different ways than had been done before (especially Primus, lmao) and was post-shroud meaning not connected to the gestalt god-consciousness.

ore the new era, Unicron consumed all of creation (refer above) and then sleeps through a Big Bang that lasts for Trillions of years and builds the new era of creation, which only just woke him up! Firstly if we take our knowledge on Physics, a Big Bang doesn’t last for a period of time and would happen instantly. This Big Bang given from Marvel lasted for “”Trillions of years” which is ominous the fact it was much bigger than a cluster or Multiverse or Universe. Marvel first bought this Idea in their comic storyline but it wasn't really clear until IDW Simon Furman confirmed an "Omniverse in chaos" when Unicron appeared again as an avatar to consume the IDW storyline. Plus in an ask Vector Prime question The 2015 Facebook Ask Vector Prime feature finally canonized the concept of the Omniverse as existing "outside" the established Transformers multiverse, and encompassing every fictional world ever created that doesn't involve the Transformers.
The 'omniverse in chaos' quote is from a story pitch that never got published, so it's one of the few times in TF that something actually isn't canon. Even if it was, this was years before AVP was a thing and it's way too vague to say it means all of fiction which, AVP never actually confirms that's what the omniverse is. It's just realities outside the main transformers cosmos and dwarfs it utterly. There are some weird feats that indicate Primus and Unicron can affect it, but the evidence is VERY thin.

Now how can we prove that Unicron has eaten anything above Multiversal? Easy. Before I jump into Vector Prime, I shall inform you that Unicron exceeds the Power of the Vok (Guardians of the One aka Creator). The Vok are Multiversal (Not to scale) Singularities (Omniversal Battlefield) who have plagued on the Macroverse. The Vok are the embodiment of reality, made up of the past, present and future all in One, which makes them Multiversal (Not to scale). Unicron is above the depths of the Vok as he is the total force of 16 clusters put together. Which all include the Macroverse, Microverse, Universe, Multiverse, Megaverse, Hyperverse, Quantaverse (alternity), Outerverse (D void in IDW, Flaternity, Hytherion – exist and devour dimensions) in a single CLUSTER and finally outside the clusters, the Omniverse (not really connected to Transformers but contains all stories of fiction – The Fallen has been there (Omniversal Tyrant), Vector Prime – met Ben 10 and many other Primes – just can’t remember).

This is just....straight up not true.
A single cluster contains universal streams, which constantly multiply into infinite new ones. Basically each cluster is a megaverse. Alternity is powerful but their feats are even debatably Multiversal+. The only way you get megaversal or higher from them is from the statement that they affected every world in Transformers (world is used to mean universe in Alternity) but it's explicitly stated this took them around a billion years or so, so they wouldn't fully scale to affecting every universe at once. (and getting into infinities with a finite timeframe is just a headache anyways). D-Void is a sention universe lmfao. Definitely does not fucking scale as every other chapter with him completely ignored Heart of Darkness saying D-Void was under every universe.


Plus The Fallen (Megatronous Prime) is regarded as an Omniversal Tyrant, who easily makes Prima (First transformer) with the Star Saber (can sink multiverses with a single blow) look like a human cell in terms of Power. Fallen at his max can unmake creation at his will and has tanked a black hole that brought every plane of reality into one ( Conquest on Antilla with Omega Supreme, Galvatron, Nova Prime and Arcee - IDW). Fallen fears true Unicron and "will never dare challenge his master". Plus Unicron makes Fallen his slave and to do his work.
Literal hyperbole and vague statements from a guidebook that while canon, don't confirm anything the way this guy is stretching it (especially since half these statements are about his god damn Bayformers incarnation, who is much weaker than his true self)

The Unicron singularity that threatened the multiverse has nothing to do with the black hole in IDW that he mentions. IDW in general has next to nothing to do with the greater cosmos as far as transformers canon goes, especially as the latter half of it was published post-Shroud.

More Proof: Let’s take the Alternity timeline. By base they are Quantaversal (Omniversal Battlefield - Alternity) as they combat the Hytherions who consume Dimensions, hence proving the existence of dimensions in TRF which are infinite and exist in a single Universe. Unicron in Marvel ate all of this Dimensions in the same comic I have shown you. According to definition, this is Universal but if we look deeper than the ice (which you didn’t exactly do), this hits way higher than just Universal. By fair comparison, The 13 Primes scale upto the Alternity but still can do No damage to Unicron. Unicron has always bested the 13 Primes, unless the seek the help of Primus but still can’t beat Unicron.
Hytherions eat universes, not dimensions. They are higher dimensional though, but I have yet to find any concrete evidence that Transformers has infinite higher dimensions. There are a couple passages from FunPub that suggest this, however TF uses dimensions and universes interchangeably so often that it's difficult to really judge these quotes. I have yet to come to a real conclusion on them myself.
The 13 are>Alternity though but again he doesn't really cite why that would be (Vector Prime having stopped clusters from being destroyed, Prima being able to destroy the entire TF multiverse etc)

Further on, after Megatronous Prime (fallen), along with Galvatron, Arcee, Nova Prime along with Omega Supreme with Sentinels began the siege on Antilla to spread Cybertronian Dominance across the entire IDW Cluster. When Antilla collapsed due to a madman Antillan scientist, he created a Black Hole that occurred across every singly reality in the TRF IDW Cluster which was like an interconnection to each reality. Simply put the Black hole had the combined destruction of every reality put into one. Omega Supreme, Megatronous, Acree, Galvatron walked out perfectly fine. Now scale that to Unicron. Omega Supreme has lost every fight against Unicron, and in the ending of IDW Transformers, we see Omega Supreme torn in half at the belly of Unicron, Megatronous serves under Unicron, Galvatron gets pimp slapped by Unicron. Arcee is nowhere near Unicron.
This is COMPLETE HORSE SHIT LMAO
The black hole this version of Unicron ate was explicitly only connected to every star in the milky way. IDW Unicron is a galaxy level threat at best, and only over time. He isn't even part of the gestalt mega consciousness thing either.
Also Omega Supreme wasn't even in Unicron. He died after being braindead for like 5 years and linking up with Bumblebee.
Regenisis Shockwave who has the 13 Ores (infinity stones but not universally limited) and drains power of 2 Clusters, shoots Optimus and Megatron with the same cannon, which only breaks Prime’s windshields. Regenisis can almost do anything he desired in his particular cluster like Thanos can with the IG,only that Regenisis is not limited to 1 universe. Okay scale this Optimus to Unicron, who practically dies to Unicron in H2H combat and had to sacrifice the name of the Prime to True form Unicron to beat avatar IDW Unicron. If Unicron is universal, how can he kill Optimus Prime who is unarguably Multiversal+?
This is Quora tier
And not even how the Regenesis Ores work
Abstract Unicron exists above the DC outer dimensions and multiverses, in the Omniverse who, has been causing Havoc ever since the dawn of creation. Justice League can only beat True Unicron if he becomes a Prime (with possession of the creation Matrix - Vector Prime's spark comes from Primus) and sacrifices himself to the creator (true Unicron) inside avatar Unicron like Optimus did in IDW ending of TRF comics. This ended completely the idea of Abstract Unicron and only keeps him at bay. A good force of evil can wake him up however.... and the writer of course.
I have no fucking clue how TF Cosmology really relates to DC's but I know it is not whatever this dude is saying. Optimus' suicide against Unicron in IDW had absolutely nothing to do with God-Unicron though, I have no clue how anyone could have read that comic and gotten that out of it.

He's right that Unicron is way above multiversal but for completely the wrong reasons, there's barely any evidence Unicron can affect what transformers actually calls the "omniverse". He's low level omniversal by OBD standards because every universe in TF spawns infinite new ones, and there's 16 clusters of these multiverse-universes. You could maybe stretch it further but I cap it there for simplicity's sake. I don't get how the people supposedly defending TF have such a piss poor understanding of any of its stories.
 

Qinglong

Martyrs are the first to Die
V.I.P. Member


.07 tons of tnt? all this time the feat SB was wanking was weaker than a fodder JJBA vampire punch?

:mjlol
 

Adamant soul

Marvelous
V.I.P. Member
https://www.fanverse.org/threads/grimmjow-halibel.1251740/

Yep, because Harribel would TOTALLY be THREE ranks higher than Grimmjow if she would lose a fight to him, or was inferior to him in any real way. 🤣

It's called basic fucking powerscaling jackass. We are explicitly told in the story that Harribel is superior to Grimmjow and BY A LOT at that given the performance of other Espada (namely Nnoitra and R1 Ulquiorra) also canonically weaker than Harribel. Therefore her superiority extends to anyone who can put up a good fight against her, full stop!

Even if she didn't have better feats than Grimmjow, which she blatantly does given she can fend off Masked Shikai LIsa (who was styling on a Hollowfied Bankai Ichigo in fucking BASE form with NO MASK for TEN MINUTES), she would still scale to anything Grimmjow does regardless. Especially given neither of them is specialized for any stat in particular.

And yes, that means Hitsugaya would also beat the fuck out of Grimmjow given he's able to hold his own with a far stronger Espada, and even outright overpower her when he decided to use his strongest attack (and it was heavily weakened at the time too). :hestonpls
 
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