Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 1: OBD 2027 prologue edition
- Thread starter Dead Lock
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I thought Palaces represented how the owner views the real world? They're described as parallel "worlds" or "reflections of the real world" multiple times and even have stars and galaxies in them. That sounds like a full-on universe to me.
Hell, doesn't Mada's description even say it has the power to swallow the entire universe? And we know Persona users gain the abilities of the specific demon's mythology. A god that controls fire = the user can now control fire, and so on.
Unless I'm going about this wrong.
Regardless, the gauntlet is getting Megidola'd
Mada's description is literally just ported over from the main games, the full collective unconsciousness abstracts are ~universal and beings like igor/izanami/nyx etc. are below Philemon/Nya
While they share the same name/appearance Shadows and demons have different origins and even histories so we don't scale them to the main series unless something changes in a new release
While they share the same name/appearance Shadows and demons have different origins and even histories so we don't scale them to the main series unless something changes in a new release
I thought Philemon/Nyar would be way above that? Seeing as how they're both primordial representations of the Collective Unconscious. Which itself is even deeper than the archetypal world where Personas/Demons/Gods come from.
This was stated in Persona 2 by Igor iirc.
Hell, Yaldabaoth is even stated to be an administrator of the Collective Unconsciousness, with the Metaverse basically being equated to it by knowledgeable characters such as Morgana. Wouldn't that put him pretty high up as well?
And the Collective Unconsciousness basically IS the Axiom/Great Reason is it not?
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Crimson Dragoon
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Holy shit@Crimson Dragoon
Gear 5 Luffy & Hybrid-Form Kaido Vs Dangai Ichigo & Hogyoku Aizen
Why are physical effects even what's being talked about? Shouldn't how the attacks effect the soul be more important, since that's what the Bleach team would actually be attacking? Can OP team even defend their soul? If yes, can they defend their soul against an attack that can destroy a...forums.spacebattles.com
Nuke level telepathy has evolved
funnily enough, Raigen is on SB
Homelander (The Boys) vs Archer (Fate/Stay Night)
EMIYA's healing is not combat applicable. It took him a week to heal from being almost sliced in half diagonally by Saber. The most that he has healed in a short time is having wounds of unknown severity all over his body and a destroyed, barely attached arm. And for that he needed several...
forums.spacebattles.com Okay when did any of that happen? EMIYA lost Magical Energy but he very much healed from the wounds he got from Gae Bolg's Throw, including the broken arm you put up.
It still takes time for a Servant to refill on Magical Energy, especially if they forced themselves to E trying to not die(and even then, we know he broke his connection with Medea before he killed her at that not soon after):
vs Thrown Gae Bolg (7 petals, EMIYA)
1. We have no idea how much magical energy he got back because Artoria herself doesn't know how EMIYA's magical output works(The dude is a literal anomaly for any Heroic Spirit, that's why Cu hates him so much). None of that means he didn't heal himself at all because we know he explicitly WAS healed then.
2. And he got replenished on some basic level before he broke his connection with Medea, besides we know what EMIYA did to kill her really didn't take that much Magical Energy at all considering he does this many times with a far bigger amount of swords just fine, all we know is that he wasn't at 100% power due to his battle with Cu):
vs Medea
3. Or EMIYA is extremely self-sufficient and Servants have metric assloads of Magical Energy available to them even in comparison to Rin Tohsaka even "On E"
Doesn't the Metaverse hold multiple universal+ sized realms, aka Palaces?
Hell, by being an administrator of the Collective Unconscious that should put him above plenty of characters in the verse, including characters like Kagutsuchi.
It is the same verse, after all.
He even seals those whose desires get too strong into a parallel universe that he creates. Sounds multiversal at the least.
Persona users having comparable strength to other humans using Observation/Understanding (which is literally the same thing as Cognition) should put them in the upper echelon all things considered. Humans having the highest potential for growth is intentional on the Axiom's part.
You're going to have to take it to the SMT thread, as I've already stated the palaces aren't full universes from when I played the original game and we don't scale to the main series, so none of the 3/4/5 protags scale to universal or higher from those
If that changed in later releases I couldn't tell you
EDIT: I can't comment on kagutsuchi because I've forgotten he even existed
If that changed in later releases I couldn't tell you
EDIT: I can't comment on kagutsuchi because I've forgotten he even existed
Is there even an SMT thread? I can't seem to find it.
I'll keep it short, but basically Kagutsuchi administrates the entirety of the Amala Network, which itself should be multiversal+ to my memory.
This isn't the thread for it, but there's a lot of evidence for them being connected.
Hell, in Persona 2 (or was it 1?) Joker explicitly states that what the party is facing isn't just a Persona, but a genuine Demon.
Personas/Demons/Gods all come from the archetypal world that resides just above where Philemon and Nyar would sit, which is stated by Igor.
Demons are also explained by Lilith in SMT IV in that humans can outright become Demons through the suppression of their desires.
Flynn also states that Demons are "the embodiment of humanities limitless desires"
Sound familiar?
Persona doesn't have a Disco Ball avatar equivalent AFAIK
I believe yosuke got a Kagutsuchi as one of his ultimates in p4/Golden but that's about it
I believe yosuke got a Kagutsuchi as one of his ultimates in p4/Golden but that's about it
I was more so referring to the fact that given Yaldabaoth's status as an administrator over the Collective Unconscious, it would put him pretty high up since the CU IS the Axiom, or at least that the Axiom is the deepest part of it.
And while they're not technically the same "entity", they come from the same archetypal world.
It's even straight up stated by Tatsuya that a Persona holds the same capabilities as its mythology/archetype would dictate.
And didn't Yaldy also mess with Philemon in P5 somehow or am I misremembering?
I was more so referring to the fact that given Yaldabaoth's status as an administrator over the Collective Unconscious, it would put him pretty high up since the CU IS the Axiom, or at least that the Axiom is the deepest part of it.
And while they're not technically the same "entity", they come from the same archetypal world.
It's even straight up stated by Tatsuya that a Persona holds the same capabilities as its mythology/archetype would dictate.
And didn't Yaldy also mess with Philemon in P5 somehow or am I misremembering?
To answer this question as I played Persona 5, Yaldaobolth only really controls Tokyo and the Collective Unconsciousness of the People of Tokyo and little else.
It's really not as impressive as it sounds and it wouldn't push any one in the cast to be Universal. Hilariously Nyx is a better off version of that from Persona 3 but ultimately, none of the Persona Series is anything close to the bullshit that is SMT as a whole.
Yalda also had to rely on a humongous case of PIS and military grade plot armor
Because Igor apparently just stood there and got whomped and Lavenza just let it happen
Because Igor apparently just stood there and got whomped and Lavenza just let it happen
Yeah, I still wonder how the hell that happened and none of the other Elevator siblings realized the fuck happened(Elizabeth has an excuse but Theodore and Margaret? No way).
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