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Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 3: Laugh Hard with a Vengence

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Paxton

One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds
V.I.P. Member

Sigh..

Literally boils down to shitty "b-but lack of collateral" and Zeus being fought on "equal grounds" by people that should be insects to him... which also isn't true.
 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member

Divell actually believes that Muken Aizen is weaker than Monster Aizen. And some people are agreeing with him!:kobeha

This is definitely part of some sort of agenda to make Dangai Ichigo equal to horn of salvation Ichigo, even if half the people in the section already believe so.
 

Paxton

One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds
V.I.P. Member

Divell actually believes that Muken Aizen is weaker than Monster Aizen. And some people are agreeing with him!:kobeha

This is definitely part of some sort of agenda to make Dangai Ichigo equal to horn of salvation Ichigo, even if half the people in the section already believe so.
I don't even..

You would think it common sense that a character going through multiple power-ups would obviously be stronger than themselves but a few arcs ago, but I guess that's something people sorely lack over there. :mjlol
 

And, in practice, when dropped on the cast, it failed to kill anyone or even destroy the Shadow Border, much like how Artemis, even in her final battle, very much did not blow up a planet.

The Shadow Border explicitly wasn't anywhere near the battle where Wodime fought everyone at...
Secondly, "It didn't blow up the Planet" can be said for literally any attack that should very much blow up the Planet... but doesn't for the sake of the narrative unless you are going to stupidly say some shit that Interstellar Battleships do not have Planetary Durability for their space trekking.

In point of fact, the biggest thing we see her blow up is an island. If you want to argue that Artemis could theoretically blow up a planet with an unknown amount of charge time and energy requirements, that's one thing, but if you want to also argue that Wodime scales to this theoretically turbo-charged Artemis, that's another that you would need to go about proving.

Ah so the narrative and authoritative intent doesn't suddenly matter now? Funny how they love pulling on this to justify their stupid rants except when it makes no sense.
Other Gods have literally stated Artemis can blow up a Planet, Oddyseus who has full knowledge of what the Gods can do in that History has stated she can blow up Planets, and both Wodime and Zeus are compared to her in firepower. The intent is clear regardless of needing to demonstrate it on-fucking-screen because if that's the case, I guess we can really start throwing out scaling entirely since god knows how many characters don't do what we heard they can do despite the narration and intent stating otherwise.

Atlantis and Olympus were full of statements about how X person could theoretically blow a planet/solar system/whatever, but as it happens, all the people those statements got made about also got fought, and very specifically did not do any of those things.

That's not how that works... Narrative Intent very much matters.

Artemis proved that even with a relatively significant charge time (for a fight) her shots could only blow up islands and could not navigate around small, durable objects held by Servants.

...That doesn't even make sense.
Are we trying to apply real world logic now or are we being fucking stupid in how this shit works for a gotcha?
Artemis doesn't need to blow up the Planet with every shot to show she has the ability to blow through the Planet because that is what Narrative Statements are supposed to be for(because if we don't, American Comics and shit like DBZ would basically be full of outliers no one should care for... but this is SB and they actually try that crap).
And secondly, Artemis only has those cooldowns AFTER the she fires her Planet Destroying Laser for her own safety, she has no literal cooldown if she wants to go all out at risk to herself.

Wodime fought several battles with his full power and didn't destroy Olympus or even the Shadow Border, though it was stated a direct hit could do the latter. Zeus has so many asterisks on his major powers, it's a joke, and can be fought for extended periods of time by relative insects.

Okay, let's play this game then:
Garou compared Saitama to a Mountain thus Garou before CF Garou cannot damage a Mountain. Saitama got hurt by a cat thus he and everyone else has weaker durability than him.
Nolan was able to feel pain being bitten by a Re-Animen, thus he cannot be as strong as he actually is.

Just because characters don't be destroying Planets with their attacks that they should be able to, doesn't mean they cannot, especially when the narrative fully agrees. Even in a VS. Debate, you cannot pretend the lack of showing ALONE means it doesn't exist and it's just hyperbole.

Meanwhile, there's an argument to be made for Scion's ability to destroy a planet that's completely irrelevant, because what he does do is actually devastate continents when he's fighting, which makes him so much stronger than Zeus in practice, if not in theory, that nothing else matters.

Uh? We literally have Fergus threaten the entire US in the FGO American Manga, we have had Surtr literally reduce entire Realms which still work under Norse Cosmology to ashes and damn near burned the entire World to ashes(that's why Scandaniva is literally covered with Ice and Snow, it's literally Skadi's attempts to get rid of Surtr's flames over a FAILED attempt to burn the Planet to ashes), Scion devastating continents when he's fighting doesn't mean shit on it's own.

Zeus didn't die because, as far as we know, Wodime didn't kill him, though he planned to kill him later and killed a couple gods to prove he could, so once again, I'm not really sure what your point is.

Ah yes because LB Zeus = Ancient Gods Dioscuri, that helps your argument... how about actually explain that the reason Wodime CAN kill Lostbelt Zeus is only when Zeus wasn't focusing on him and going all out due to thinking he was just a lone Mage and the reason he believed he can kill him for true is due to the bullshit conceptual powers Animus Animusphere truly is capable of?
But apparently Conceptual anything means nothing despite Conceptual Powers are some of the most broken things in fiction...
 

Sigh..

Literally boils down to shitty "b-but lack of collateral" and Zeus being fought on "equal grounds" by people that should be insects to him... which also isn't true.

Funny enough, I just addressed this before I saw your post but yes, it's some of the most ridiculous deflection I have seen, meanwhile "Scion can devastate a Continent while he's fighting" is somehow penned as being "beyond anything Zeus is capable of" despite A Servant and one so below Zeus it's not even funny can basically destroy a Continent.
Meanwhile, we have no clue how Scion can "devastate a Continent" since he's doing it while he's fighting which can mean alot of things.
 

Paxton

One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds
V.I.P. Member



The Shadow Border explicitly wasn't anywhere near the battle where Wodime fought everyone at...
Secondly, "It didn't blow up the Planet" can be said for literally any attack that should very much blow up the Planet... but doesn't for the sake of the narrative unless you are going to stupidly say some shit that Interstellar Battleships do not have Planetary Durability for their space trekking.



Ah so the narrative and authoritative intent doesn't suddenly matter now? Funny how they love pulling on this to justify their stupid rants except when it makes no sense.
Other Gods have literally stated Artemis can blow up a Planet, Oddyseus who has full knowledge of what the Gods can do in that History has stated she can blow up Planets, and both Wodime and Zeus are compared to her in firepower. The intent is clear regardless of needing to demonstrate it on-fucking-screen because if that's the case, I guess we can really start throwing out scaling entirely since god knows how many characters don't do what we heard they can do despite the narration and intent stating otherwise.



That's not how that works... Narrative Intent very much matters.



...That doesn't even make sense.
Are we trying to apply real world logic now or are we being fucking stupid in how this shit works for a gotcha?
Artemis doesn't need to blow up the Planet with every shot to show she has the ability to blow through the Planet because that is what Narrative Statements are supposed to be for(because if we don't, American Comics and shit like DBZ would basically be full of outliers no one should care for... but this is SB and they actually try that crap).
And secondly, Artemis only has those cooldowns AFTER the she fires her Planet Destroying Laser for her own safety, she has no literal cooldown if she wants to go all out at risk to herself.



Okay, let's play this game then:
Garou compared Saitama to a Mountain thus Garou before CF Garou cannot damage a Mountain. Saitama got hurt by a cat thus he and everyone else has weaker durability than him.
Nolan was able to feel pain being bitten by a Re-Animen, thus he cannot be as strong as he actually is.

Just because characters don't be destroying Planets with their attacks that they should be able to, doesn't mean they cannot, especially when the narrative fully agrees. Even in a VS. Debate, you cannot pretend the lack of showing ALONE means it doesn't exist and it's just hyperbole.



Uh? We literally have Fergus threaten the entire US in the FGO American Manga, we have had Surtr literally reduce entire Realms which still work under Norse Cosmology to ashes and damn near burned the entire World to ashes(that's why Scandaniva is literally covered with Ice and Snow, it's literally Skadi's attempts to get rid of Surtr's flames over a FAILED attempt to burn the Planet to ashes), Scion devastating continents when he's fighting doesn't mean shit on it's own.



Ah yes because LB Zeus = Ancient Gods Dioscuri, that helps your argument... how about actually explain that the reason Wodime CAN kill Lostbelt Zeus is only when Zeus wasn't focusing on him and going all out due to thinking he was just a lone Mage and the reason he believed he can kill him for true is due to the bullshit conceptual powers Animus Animusphere truly is capable of?
But apparently Conceptual anything means nothing despite Conceptual Powers are some of the most broken things in fiction...
I love how narrative/author intent is clearly ignored for SB when its inconvenient towards their argument, but you could say that about a lot of things over at SB. :mjlol
 
I don't even..

You would think it common sense that a character going through multiple power-ups would obviously be stronger than themselves but a few arcs ago, but I guess that's something people sorely lack over there. :mjlol

It was literally stated by Urahara and Shunsui Aizen gotten stronger in the Muken and is even stronger than his Monster Form...
But hey, Fanverse is taking things from SB at long last.

I love how narrative/author intent is clearly ignored for SB when its inconvenient towards their argument, but you could say that about a lot of things over at SB. :mjlol

It really is. People don't seem to realize that Narrative/Author Intent IS needed for VS. Debates because if it wasn't, scaling would be extremely difficult to pull off reasonably well outside of other sources.
Yes, not everything can be taken at face value which is why outliers exist... HOWEVER, if the Narrative or the Author is going all in on a certain point being true... then you have to take that into account, period.
 

El Hermano

Acclaimed

>Admits said sketches were never given any meaning nor ever really talked about
>Proceeds to claim they're significant

So, said sketches could be anything from cut content to outright just Kubo fucking around drawing what he feels like yet deems not important enough for the story, hence, not putting it in a chapter. I guess we gonna start digging and pulling up some crazy color spreads from other manga and deem them canon now, too? Lmao.

This is some shameless, brain-rot level shit.
 

>Admits said sketches were never given any meaning nor ever really talked about
>Proceeds to claim they're significant

So, said sketches could be anything from cut content to outright just Kubo fucking around drawing what he feels like yet deems not important enough for the story, hence, not putting it in a chapter. I guess we gonna start digging and pulling up some crazy color spreads from other manga and deem them canon now, too? Lmao.

This is some shameless, brain-rot level shit.

Honestly, the dude presented a terrible example because someone did bring up that Kubo's sketches actually DO reflect canon(Like Uryu saving Loly wasn't in the Anime alone, it was a sketch he did after the Manga Chapter where Uryu saves Orihime or Ichigo's Soul Reaper Badge being symbolically broken to show that Hollow Ichigo has really taken him over) and it's in fact true.

The only issue is that it alone doesn't show whether or not that's something Yhwach did(especially since none of the 3 Worlds ever had damage on that magnitude even in CFYOW).
 

OtherGalaxy

ยสี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่ สี่สี
V.I.P. Member

>Admits said sketches were never given any meaning nor ever really talked about
>Proceeds to claim they're significant

So, said sketches could be anything from cut content to outright just Kubo fucking around drawing what he feels like yet deems not important enough for the story, hence, not putting it in a chapter. I guess we gonna start digging and pulling up some crazy color spreads from other manga and deem them canon now, too? Lmao.

This is some shameless, brain-rot level shit.
i genuinely dont even mind using the sketches but the sketches aren't universal either lol they show one planet cracking in half
 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
I haven't watched the Memories Of Nobody movie but wasn't that movie showing Hueco Mundo and Soul Society as planets about to crush the earth? That would be way better to scale to Yhawch cause Memories Of Nobody is actually confirmed canon.
 

El Hermano

Acclaimed
Honestly, the dude presented a terrible example because someone did bring up that Kubo's sketches actually DO reflect canon(Like Uryu saving Loly wasn't in the Anime alone, it was a sketch he did after the Manga Chapter where Uryu saves Orihime or Ichigo's Soul Reaper Badge being symbolically broken to show that Hollow Ichigo has really taken him over) and it's in fact true.

The only issue is that it alone doesn't show whether or not that's something Yhwach did(especially since none of the 3 Worlds ever had damage on that magnitude even in CFYOW).
Is still don't see why we should treat them as canon. It's composed of some symbolic shenanigans and shit that didn't make it into the manga.

i genuinely dont even mind using the sketches but the sketches aren't universal either lol they show one planet cracking in half
I don't care if they're brick level, it still feels like a reaching attempt of the highest order..
 

OtherGalaxy

ยสี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่ สี่สี
V.I.P. Member
Is still don't see why we should treat them as canon. It's composed of some symbolic shenanigans and shit that didn't make it into the manga.


I don't care if they're brick level, it still feels like a reaching attempt of the highest order..
it is a reach its just at least some kind of concrete visual which is a lot better than what they were offering lol
 

Paxton

One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds
V.I.P. Member


😐

Island level Cell Saga characters anyone? :mjlol
 

They were on the neo-Argo at the time I believe, not the Shadow Border.

Wow, Siriel actually said something correct for once...
Because if anything, it was heavily implied Wodime's next attack would have had such a huge range, it would have still gotten the Shadow Border ANYWAY even if Ritsuka tried to run to it somehow.
z3TqSXx.jpg


Unfortunately, that's the only smart thing he said the whole time...

Yes, Artemis is repeatedly stated to be able to destroy planets (by piercing them). This is largely irrelevant for comparisons though, because she never actually fires at that level of potency. Her shots throughout Atlantis are only powerful enough to destroy islands.

We really are going DBZ logic with this, aren't we? LB Artemis... is literally BUILT to destroy Planets and Interstellar Warships, she literally has only ONE setting for her "Arrow" and that's to destroy either one of those 2 things:
IPmbVAY.jpg


This is literal Narrative and Author Intent for fucks sake. As Paxton just stated, this is the equivalent of saying Semi-Perfect Cell can only blow up Islands... after seeing multiple Z-Fighters before him able to vaporize Planets in their weakest form. No character, not even Artemis herself ever states she can lower her output to anything less, that's fanon to literally say otherwise.

Meanwhile, the Kirschtaria meteors that are allegedly as powerful as her cannon failed to kill regular Servants, or notably damage the (admittedly magical and klironomia-reinforced) ship that they were on.

Because Mash and every other Servant literally protected Ritsuka from the attack...
Hl1qgs0.jpg

UPgv2IP.jpg


It's like people miss that Mash has blocked AAS and attacks from Lostbelt Ivan who is compared to Terminal Zeus or something...

Repeated usage also failed to defeat a handful of nanomachines-reinforced Servants in the second fight against Kirschtaria.

We don't count gameplay fights here, he literally used it once against Ritsuka and Chaldeas in Olympus(Which considering Mash was able to block Lostbelt Zeus' Planet Destroying Lightning due to Athena's Aegis AND Mash was being further buffed by Kirschtaria's own plan, funny how Siriel didn't mention that, maybe that's why Chaldeas avoided that) because he only does it one more time(And Sirius Light aided at that) at U-Olga Marie...

So how amazing tanking those meteors is supposed to be is kind of up in the air. If anything, the statement that they can destroy the Olympian gods is the best quantifiable showing of the meteors.

We are literally told how strong those Meteors are supposed to be...
foILNvd.jpg

zPMGUrR.jpg


The entire point of Kirschtaria getting this level of push from the story... is to show how truly insane Rhongomyniad is that it's literally more fucking powerful than something that can surpass Lostbelt Zeus. It's also the same shit when a Sirius Light empowered version fails to even hurt U-Olga Marie, only causing her to run off due to how she expected everyone to just lay down and die.
This isn't rocket science, especially when the story literally beats you over the head with this.
 

Paxton

One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds
V.I.P. Member
>Siriel says that the meteors fail to kill Servants
>it's literally said outright that the meteors were destroying swaths of them

Never change.
 
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>Siriel says that the meteors fail to kill Servants
>it's literally said outright that the meteors were destroying swaths of them

Never change.

Kirschtaria actually killed a bunch of them himself before we got there in canon... in that case though, it was more Mash and everyone saved Ritsuka in particular as that was who Kirschtaria was aiming to kill in general.
None of them died but they was so critically wounded, they couldn't do fuck else.
 

Adamant soul

Marvelous
V.I.P. Member

Divell actually believes that Muken Aizen is weaker than Monster Aizen. And some people are agreeing with him!:kobeha

This is definitely part of some sort of agenda to make Dangai Ichigo equal to horn of salvation Ichigo, even if half the people in the section already believe so.
"Horn of Salvation Ichigo"?

I wish, some of the people in that section unironically think Dangai Ichigo = EoS Ichigo full stop.
OR that Dangai is much stronger because EoS Ichigo never did anything on his level. :kobeha
 
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