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Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 5: Diamonds are fleeting. Stupid lasts forever

Salfarc said:
Again this is assuming the dungeon's floor durability.

If you need the same energy to destroy adamantite in fate to destroy the dungeon floor in Danmachi, that is beyond city level.

This is my point, we either assume it is or it is not.
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No, we don't. We never even consider that scenario at all. At no point in the process do we pick another random series and go "hey maybe the rock in this world is as strong as the iron in this one"

Salfarc said:
Because there is no 100% confirmation the humans are exactly the same.

Even this is assuming the human are roughly the same in both verses.

The point is again, how this is all assumption.
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We are told they are normal humans, they act like normal humans, and literally nothing is said that they aren't.

Salfarc said:
That is all visual effect, you can in theory make a sword made of wood so similar to a real steel sword, and make a wooden shield so similar to real steel shield and have them interract and they look like real steel sword and real steel shield. But obviously they are not the same
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This is not an argument. These are works of fiction and unless there is evidence presented otherwise we take what they state at their word.

Salfarc said:
Are you under the impression that assumption is inherently wrong or something that you are so against it? When your word literally assume the humans are the same?
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This is not what an assumption is. And assumption is used to fill in a logical gap based on existing evidence. You don't have any evidence for this theory.

There is literally nothing in either verse that suggests the laws of physics are deliberately arranged behind the scenes so that a less impressive verse is actually exerting orders of magnitude more force than it appears.

Salfarc said:
It is not difficult concept, no one say it is. I literally repeating myself to say that you are assuming they are comparable. Nothing wrong with that, as there is nothing directly indicate they are not comparable.
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If a series states they are baseline human and never directly contradicts it, they are baseline human. It's fiction, the only source of information is the series itself. This is not an existing world the author is giving us a glance into, it's words on a page and pictures in a book. Unless contradicted by the series itself, it is objective fact as far as that settings reality goes.

Salfarc said:
I've been saying this since like 3 comments ago.

Human in danmachi barely do anything. Also you are saying that because you see how the human interract with the things inside that verse. There is nothing 100% confirm that if normal human in fate is suddenly thrown to danmachi verse, they'd be as strong as danmachi verse human. And vice versa, there is nothing 100% confirm that if normal human in danmachi is suddenly thrown to danmachi verse, they'd be as strong as Nasuverse human.
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We literally see a bunch of normal ass human soldiers try to fight adventurers. The Adventurers have to deliberately moderate their attacks to not paste them.

And again both series state baseline humans are just that, so unless contradicted elsewhere that is in fact 100% confirmation. Because this is fiction and it works how the author says it does.

Salfarc said:
We literally need to assume because there is no official crossover between the two. Hell, if there is, it may not be canon or contradict canon and so we still need to assume.
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Again, this is not what "assumption" means. There is literally no logic behind your statements.

Salfarc said:
Yes that is Adamantite...Let's not pretend stupidity that they are both mean to represent the mythical material Adamantite.
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Are you fucking kidding me right now

All that BS you just shat out about assumptions and how we can't believe that humans are actually humans when the writer says they are

and now you suggest that two materials called by different names

With different properties and abilities

MUST be the same

because they sound similar

This is actually, literally, unitonically retarded. :skully

As in this statement, when attached to the rest of your post, is literally a sign of retardation in the medical sense

Get off the internet, you're done for the day :kobeha

Salfarc said:
Well I do hope no one will accuse me of downplaying if I call danmachi's adamantite is weaker than Fate's. Again I do want to do it. Alright


Yeah fair enough actually.
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Literally no one was going to accuse you of that

Like fucking go to SB and make a thread asking this question

See how they respond
 
The fact we have a legit argument that humans cannot be 1:1 with other humans without any through line on that(aka an author stating as such) and then that completely destroy your own stance that neither Fate Adamas and Danmachi Adamantite are not the same as the mythological Adamantium is some of the dumbest shit I've heard:

tvtropes.org

Fantasy Metals - TV Tropes

In Real Life, a metal is an element of the periodic table which belongs to one of certain groups/columns and has a specific type crystal lattice with free electrons.note While in Astronomy, everything except hydrogen and helium is a metal, …
tvtropes.org tvtropes.org
Adamantium (variously spelled adamantine, adamantite or adamant): the name comes from Greek adamas, "diamond". And, indeed, this metal is diamond-hard and much more strong and resilient than diamond to boot. It tends to be even stronger than mithril, although it is usually rather heavy compared to mithril's supernatural lightness. If adamantium isn't of a magical level of indestructibility and is given more down-to-earth properties, then it resembles the real-world metals tungsten and rhenium.
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Notice how in neither series, Adamantium acts anywhere close to how it's stated in myth? This is also funny because what's ALSO Adamantium kids?
That's right, Wolverine's Metal Claws:
Their version of adamantium is a super-metal designed to present threats to invulnerable superheroes. (The second X-Men movie states that it's synthesized in liquid form and a "hot chain" must be maintained to keep it usable.) Wolverine is well known for having a whole skeleton and a set of six claws bonded with adamantium.
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It shouldn't take much to realize how durable Adamantium is in the Marvel franchise.

Seriously, this shouldn't even be a debate on any level, Fantasy Metals are just that: Fantasy and it's up to anyone to make how dense or powerful these metals are because that's the world they created. Trying to 1:1 them to any measure is dumb and pretending they aren't meant to be the Mythological Metal is even dumber.
 
CrossTheHorizon said:
No, we don't. We never even consider that scenario at all. At no point in the process do we pick another random series and go "hey maybe the rock in this world is as strong as the iron in this one"



We are told they are normal humans, they act like normal humans, and literally nothing is said that they aren't.



This is not an argument. These are works of fiction and unless there is evidence presented otherwise we take what they state at their word.



This is not what an assumption is. And assumption is used to fill in a logical gap based on existing evidence. You don't have any evidence for this theory.

There is literally nothing in either verse that suggests the laws of physics are deliberately arranged behind the scenes so that a less impressive verse is actually exerting orders of magnitude more force than it appears.



If a series states they are baseline human and never directly contradicts it, they are baseline human. It's fiction, the only source of information is the series itself. This is not an existing world the author is giving us a glance into, it's words on a page and pictures in a book. Unless contradicted by the series itself, it is objective fact as far as that settings reality goes.



We literally see a bunch of normal ass human soldiers try to fight adventurers. The Adventurers have to deliberately moderate their attacks to not paste them.

And again both series state baseline humans are just that, so unless contradicted elsewhere that is in fact 100% confirmation. Because this is fiction and it works how the author says it does.



Again, this is not what "assumption" means. There is literally no logic behind your statements.



Are you fucking kidding me right now

All that BS you just shat out about assumptions and how we can't believe that humans are actually humans when the writer says they are

and now you suggest that two materials called by different names

With different properties and abilities

MUST be the same

because they sound similar

This is actually, literally, unitonically retarded. :skully

As in this statement, when attached to the rest of your post, is literally a sign of retardation in the medical sense

Get off the internet, you're done for the day :kobeha
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Everything you said here are assumption, I am just repeating myself and I've been explaining this as dumbed down as possible and you don't want to accept it at this point.

If you consider they are different simply because visually they are very different, with Adamantium in Danmachi destroyed by Gareth who's best feat is arguably lifting a galleon vs Adamantium in Fate which requires planet destroying attack, then you are making assumption that Gareth can't deal as much damage as planet destroying attack. There is no evidence he can? Then you don't assume he can, you assume he can't. There is no direct canonical statement the human in Fate and Danmachi are the same. Considering they are same too, is an assumption. You can say because there is no evidence that says otherwise, and that is still assumption

There is nothing wrong with assumption. If there is nothing that suggest Hans can take being punched by Saitama 100 times, then you don't assume he can, you assume he can't

It's that simple. It's still assumption.
 
beemoviewutnobackground.png


HOLY SHIT
STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS
USE FEATS
ITS THAT SIMPLE
THIS AINT HARD
 
Salfarc said:
If you consider they are different simply because visually they are very different, with Adamantium in Danmachi destroyed by Gareth who's best feat is arguably lifting a galleon vs Adamantium in Fate which requires planet destroying attack, then you are making assumption that Gareth can't deal as much damage as planet destroying attack. There is no evidence he can? Then you don't assume he can, you assume he can't. There is no direct canonical statement the human in Fate and Danmachi are the same. Considering they are same too, is an assumption. You can say because there is no evidence that says otherwise, and that is still assumption
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...MY BROTHER IN CHRIST, WHY ARE YOU ASSUMING THEY ARE AS DURABLE AS EACH OTHER?!

Use the fucking feats they have access to! By your logic, Marvel Adamantium is the same shit as Adamantium in Overlord and thus Ainz is Universal+ as well as every goddamned person in Overlord by proxy.

There is no assumptions, there is only the evidence of absence and the absence of evidence and it's clearly obvious where Danmachi Adamantium is.
 
Stocking Anarchy said:
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"I don't really feel like making intentionally goofy arguments about goofy characters is debating in bad faith. If everyone is in on the joke then it's all in good fun even if it's silly.


Bad faith to me is more about using deceptive tactics when debating and refusing to hold one side to the same standards as the other."

mook is the one saying this
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Salfarc said:
Everything you said here are assumption, I am just repeating myself and I've been explaining this as dumbed down as possible and you don't want to accept it at this point.
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You haven't "dumbed it down", you are mistaken. Like you are flat out using the words incorrectly. The things you are saying are not the way things actually are. I cannot make this any clearer.

An assumption is something you make to close a gap in logic. Dude can use fire without burning himself? You assume he's fireproof.

However, the things you are saying are not assumptions. They are not based in any form of logic, in or out of the fictional universes we are discussing.

You made a stupid statement and are attempting to obfuscate that by saying "well actually everything is a stupid statement". No dude, it's just you.

Salfarc said:
If you consider they are different simply because visually they are very different, with Adamantium in Danmachi destroyed by Gareth who's best feat is arguably lifting a galleon vs Adamantium in Fate which requires planet destroying attack, then you are making assumption that Gareth can't deal as much damage as planet destroying attack. There is no evidence he can? Then you don't assume he can, you assume he can't. There is no direct canonical statement the human in Fate and Danmachi are the same. Considering they are same too, is an assumption. You can say because there is no evidence that says otherwise, and that is still assumption
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I'm not making an assumption. Gareth has demonstrated the limits of his strength, and it was roughly city level. He can break adamantite. Thus adamantite has a durability of less than city level.

Adamant has deflected a shot that once bored a hole through the planet. Thus it's durability is planet level.

This is not an assumption, it's a statement of things that happened in the stories. Unless otherwise contradicted by those same stories, that is the same as objective fact in their respective universes. That's how fiction fucking works.

Salfarc said:
There is nothing wrong with assumption. If there is nothing that suggest Hans can take being punched by Saitama 100 times, then you don't assume he can, you assume he can't

It's that simple. It's still assumption.
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Stop saying assumption. You are not using this word correctly.
 
ok to be fair Mook's not actually WRONG in what he said



..he of all people should be familiar with bad faith arguments :tupac
 
I'll note, however, that while Adamant, Divine Steel, and Adamas are all used for the same metal in Greek Mythology, it is never once referred to as Adamantite :maybe
 
Xhominid The Apex said:
True as I checked with Ares again and they do call it Adamant but I think in Dioscuri's profile it's called Adamas but I haven't looked there either for certain.

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In Greek Mythology, Adamant is the name of Chronus' scythe. Adamas is how Greeks described Hades.
"Why do we loathe Hades more than any god, if not because he is so adamantine and unyielding?"
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Illiad, IX.
 
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